The Kolob Theorem: A Mormon's View of God's Starry Universe

[volgadon]

I guess not, because that is not at all what I meant. I was saying that I don't believe that the planets are 14 great ones.

[its_Chet]

I've heard the idea that Kolob = Christ once before. I don't particularly believe that, but thought I'd share that with you.

What I believe is that the Savior uses symbolism quite extensively to teach us, and therefore two distinct objects are frequently compared in the Gospel.

[Guest dec2057]

I love the book. It doesn't contract any scripture and is a good theorum or THEORY that the author offers for our consideration.

[volgadon]

I think it skirts dangerously close to that. Even if that is not the case, the theory is founded on shaky grounds. Not every theory is a good theory.

[its_Chet]

I love the book. It doesn't contract any scripture and is a good theorum or THEORY that the author offers for our consideration.

I'll go a step further. I think it actually makes sense of some of the prophecies I've never fully understood regarding the future of this planet and those who will inherit it. It presents a logical explanation of what it means for this world to pass from a telestial to a terrestrial to a celestial state. It replaces "poof" with reason, and the ability of the Gospel to do that is what attracted me to it in the first place. The logic inherent in the Gospel, compared the lack thereof in my previous religious affiliations, has always been a part of my testimony. I think this book lends logic to parts of the Gospel that I had previously been unable to understand.

There is so much that we don't yet know, and much of it is referred to in scriptures we already have easy access to. It seems to me that every religion requires a certain level of faith, some more than others. And when they reach a point where logic runs out, some religions resort to what I simly call "poof" to explain things. I've never been a fan of "poof". I believe there are logical explanations, such as that rather than abandoning our bodies at death, we will be resurrected some day (why would we only have bodies for such a relatively short time, and for that time only?), or that rather than abandoning our families at death, families can be together forever (why would we have families only in this life?).

I like to understand the mechanics behind the Gospel, whenever possible. It increases my faith and makes the rest of the Gospel easier for me to understand. It just makes me stronger.

I do not regard this book as scripture, though I believe at least most of it is probably accurate. It certainly makes sense to me. But if I ever hear a General Authority say that this book is wrong, I will defer to that General Authority 100%, without question. Until that happens, I am inclined to believe this book to be correct.

Having an open mind has gotten me this far. It's gotten me into the Church. It's gotten me through the Temple. It's allowed me to build a testimony in spite of what at first glance appear to be troubling things that show up in Church History. I choose to continue having an open mind. It's worked out pretty well for me so far.

[Guest dec2057]

I'll go a step further. I think it actually makes sense of some of the prophecies I've never fully understood regarding the future of this planet and those who will inherit it. It presents a logical explanation of what it means for this world to pass from a telestial to a terrestrial to a celestial state. It replaces "poof" with reason, and the ability of the Gospel to do that is what attracted me to it in the first place. The logic inherent in the Gospel, compared the lack thereof in my previous religious affiliations, has always been a part of my testimony. I think this book lends logic to parts of the Gospel that I had previously been unable to understand.

There is so much that we don't yet know, and much of it is referred to in scriptures we already have easy access to. It seems to me that every religion requires a certain level of faith, some more than others. And when they reach a point where logic runs out, some religions resort to what I simly call "poof" to explain things. I've never been a fan of "poof". I believe there are logical explanations, such as that rather than abandoning our bodies at death, we will be resurrected some day (why would we only have bodies for such a relatively short time, and for that time only?), or that rather than abandoning our families at death, families can be together forever (why would we have families only in this life?).

I like to understand the mechanics behind the Gospel, whenever possible. It increases my faith and makes the rest of the Gospel easier for me to understand. It just makes me stronger.

I do not regard this book as scripture, though I believe at least most of it is probably accurate. It certainly makes sense to me. But if I ever hear a General Authority say that this book is wrong, I will defer to that General Authority 100%, without question. Until that happens, I am inclined to believe this book to be correct.

Having an open mind has gotten me this far. It's gotten me into the Church. It's gotten me through the Temple. It's allowed me to build a testimony in spite of what at first glance appear to be troubling things that show up in Church History. I choose to continue having an open mind. It's worked out pretty well for me so far.

Well said, that is exactly where I am with this book. Very grateful that someone shared his ideas and concepts that made some of what I didn't understand understandable. We need to be able to accept truth and good where ever it comes from and also be able to immediately defer to the general authorities if it turns out to be inaccurate.

This book made the scriptures and teachings of church authorities come alive for me and make sense.

[Hemidakota]

The closer you look, the easier it is to understand what constitute our universe and where is our Creator.

[Guest dec2057]

I really love the way the gospel makes sense. What it really is - is man's search for truth. Once the truth is found (things as they really were, are and will be) then happiness is the result if we implement the truth for good in our lives. The trickle down effect of our lives being in sync with nature is incredible as generations can be affected by just one centered person. Just took at a great great grandparent that joined the church and see the generations that followed and were blessed by that one person's decision.

[its_Chet]

I really love the way the gospel makes sense. What it really is - is man's search for truth. Once the truth is found (things as they really were, are and will be) then happiness is the result if we implement the truth for good in our lives. The trickle down effect of our lives being in sync with nature is incredible as generations can be affected by just one centered person. Just took at a great great grandparent that joined the church and see the generations that followed and were blessed by that one person's decision.

Probably the single most eloquent statement on the Gospel that I've ever heard, bar none.

[Guest dec2057]

:-)

[JayGlad]

I’ve read The Kolob Theorem. My opinions of the book are just that, no more, no less. I think it is imperative that we all realize opinions are like noses, everybody’s got one.

Food for thought…

Take this thread and its topic as an example. There has been, on one level or another, a sense of contention. We all know where contention comes from (3 Ne 11:29). Some here think the book is one thing, some think it’s another. There little to be found in the way of a “general consensus” as to the validity of the author's theories.

On the other hand, if we take another book, The Book of Mormon, we would all agree that “the Book of Mormon [is] the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book” (HTC, v.4, p 461). There would be neither debate nor contention on this fact.

There have times in general conference when we have been counseled about depending too often on commentaries (and this all The Kolob Theorem is). Elder Dean L. Larson declared, “I am going to give more time and attention to the study and pondering of the scriptures themselves, rather than to the commentaries and criticisms that others have written about them. In doing this, I am going to be as open as I can be to the Spirit of the Lord so that I can understand these things for myself. Jacob said: ‘For the Spirit speaketh the truth and lieth not. Wherefore, it speaketh of things as they really are, and of things as they really will be; wherefore, these things are manifested unto us plainly, for the salvation of our souls’ (Jacob 4:13)” (Dean L. Larson, “Looking Beyond the Mark,” Ensign, Nov 1987, p 11).

Hopefully, we all are teaching from the Scriptures by the Spirit (D&C 42:14). When we do, there is little or no room for contention to enter into the conversation. There is no room for argument on the validity of the information being shared.

[Hemidakota]

Good point...we glean information or knowledge for our own edification, whether it is the level of Elder Larson or the vastness level of Abraham or Enoch

[JayGlad]

Unfortunately, I have yet to meet or know anyone whose knowledge or understanding is at the level of Abraham or Enoch.

[Hemidakota]

Don't assume, there are some in the church.

Hey! Love the avatar.

[JayGlad]

Sorry. You misunderstood me. I wasn't assuming anything. I was stating a fact.

Regarding the avatar... Every time I see that face, it makes me smile.

[NeuroTypical]

There has been, on one level or another, a sense of contention. We all know where contention comes from (3 Ne 11:29).

That scripture doesn't say anything about contention, it talks about the "spirit of contention" - i.e., contending with anger.

Jude brother of James exhorted us to earnestly contend for the faith.

God wants us to earnestly contend, He doesn't want us to have the spirit of contention, or contend with anger.

Jude brother of James was speaking back in the day as the apostles were discovering local church leaders were actually ungodly men, off teaching fringist horse puckey as doctrine. Now, I'm not saying The Kolob Theorem is horse puckey, nor am I calling it's author an ungodly man. But I do earnestly contend that his book is not doctrine. So I take exception when someone accuses me of "put[ting] off this portion of [my] eternal progression until the day [i am] able to handle it" just because I don't buy the author's story.

LM

[Hemidakota]

Sorry. You misunderstood me. I wasn't assuming anything. I was stating a fact.

Then this is an incorrect statement.

[Hemidakota]

I will have to keep this in mind, Hemi.

I love stuff like this!

Surprisingly Tom, is how and why I came across this information.

Tom, how's life for you?

[JayGlad]

Then this is an incorrect statement.

Hemi, please, go back and read my original statement, then return and report.

It is a fact.

[JayGlad]

That scripture doesn't say anything about contention, it talks about the "spirit of contention" - i.e., contending with anger.

LM

I understand what you're saying. From where I'm setting, and based upon my reading of the thread, it has contained a "spirit of contention." Some post have appeared to have had the element of "anger" in them.

[Hemidakota]

Hemi, please, go back and read my original statement, then return and report.

It is a fact.

Incorrect....

[JayGlad]

Incorrect....

You THINK you know what I said, but you didn't go back and re-read it, because if you had, you would not keep saying my statement was "incorrect."

This tells me a great deal about you.

My original statement was:

Unfortunately, I have yet to meet or know anyone whose knowledge or understanding is at the level of Abraham or Enoch. (emphasis added)

You do not know who I have or have not met, who I do or do not know. Therefore your declaration that my statement is incorrect is absolutely erroneous and totally unfounded.

[Hemidakota]

And if you pay attention, you will never know in this life whether you have or not unless you are of the same level. They are not going to tell you and it doesn't require a prophet to see such.

Now, that is telling me about you...

[JayGlad]

And if you pay attention, you will never know in this life whether you have or not unless you are of the same level. They are not going to tell you and it doesn't require a prophet to see such.

Now, that is telling me about you...

First of all, your statement is illogical: "If pay attention, will never know..." How does that work? Usually when one pays attention, they DO know.

"...you will never know in this life whether you have or not unless you are of the same level..."

That's another outlandish and totally false statement. I have met and known many truly righteous individuals in the Church. They stand on a higher spiritual ground than I do. It's easy to recognize them. How? They are humble, a trait that seems to elude some people. Instead of constantly bragging and telling everyone how spiritual they are, they actually behave in a humble, spiritual manner.

"They are not going to tell you and it doesn't require a prophet to see such."

From what I've read in these forums, it hasn't stopped you from telling. Therein lies the difference. And you're right, it doesn't take a prophet to recognize a self-righteous person. I have been paying attention and it is painfully obvious, from your various posts in these forums, that you are, without a doubt, the most self-righteous individual I have ever encountered.

There is another one like you in our ward. All the rest of us are spiritual midgets, compared to him (or so he thinks). He knows it all. He's never mistaken (therefore he never apologies). He's constantly bragging about his spiritual experiences and how much the Lord has revealed to him (sound familiar?).

This is your kingdom, your domain. I leave you to it.

[Hemidakota]

Said you! I am glad you are not GOD of this world and I can see why. I will leave it at that...