The battle is in Illinois now...

[tubaloth]

New LDS ward email about gay civil unions attracts attention - ABC 4.com

[MarginOfError]

Well that was a pretty stupid thing to do. Church policy is very clear on how ward directories and Local Unit Web Sites may be used, and they may not be used for political purposes. The Church was right to deny affiliation with that message and they should give that bishop a good scolding too.

[Wingnut]

Besides the idiocy of what happened, that article is poorly written. It's got quite snide undertones.

[MobyMule]

Not a smart move at all.

[beefche]

Well that was a pretty stupid thing to do. Church policy is very clear on how ward directories and Local Unit Web Sites may be used, and they may not be used for political purposes. The Church was right to deny affiliation with that message and they should give that bishop a good scolding too.

Question: If I, being a ward member, have nearly all of my ward members email addresses and decide to send a mass email to my ward members, does that constitute using a ward directory? Does it matter if I am the hymn book coordinator or the RS president?

[bytebear]

It's not a good idea to use the ward directory, and you would probably get chewed out by your bishop, unless it was endorsed by the bishop, but the law and church rules are that you can't use the ward direcory to endorse candidates, but says nothing about moral issues, which is why the statement of the church which said "An e-mail was sent from a local Illinois Church leader to his congregation – one of 129 congregations in the state — who was free to express his own views.” But the church has every right to distance themselves from his views. The church is against gay marriage, but not against gay rights. Please understand the distinction.

[beefche]

I don't think I've gotten any of my email addy's from a ward directory. I've been given the addresses either directly from them, or they have requested my email addy and I got it from an email they sent.

Does this still constitute a ward directory?

[Moksha]

Wish we would stay out of politics.

[Moksha]

Oh, forgot to add that we have heaped upon ourselves years of bad publicity and ill will. This does not seem conducive to spreading the Gospel. Love and good will goes a long way in spreading this good news.

Sorry for disjointed thoughts on two threads.

[prospectmom]

beefy you are fine..... you are not e-mailing directly out of the directory nor are you mass e-mailing based on the directory a to z. Don't worry be happy

Moksha ... you are so right and the tone some of these judgement threads takes is so sad I really wonder who is motivating the posters or:angel:... just a thought.....

[Traveler]

So much for freedom of speech. It appears to me that there is an effort being made to suppress freedom of speech and avoid facing or answering concerns and issues.

The Traveler

[Maxel]

Oh, forgot to add that we have heaped upon ourselves years of bad publicity and ill will. This does not seem conducive to spreading the Gospel. Love and good will goes a long way in spreading this good news.

Well, the purpose of the Church is to declare the word of God as revealed to us by the prophets- not to be popular with the world.

[Moksha]

Well, the purpose of the Church is to declare the word of God as revealed to us by the prophets- not to be popular with the world.

To spread the Word, does the door need to be open or shut?

[MarginOfError]

Question: If I, being a ward member, have nearly all of my ward members email addresses and decide to send a mass email to my ward members, does that constitute using a ward directory? Does it matter if I am the hymn book coordinator or the RS president?

The situation you pose is one of splitting hairs and parsing words that we’ve been dealing with in my unit. We recently made the switch to exclusively using the Local Unit Web Site (LUWS) for ward communication in place of a Google Group that we had been in use for years. There have been several discussions in the ward trying to parse out what is and isn’t appropriate use of e-mail addresses, establishing mailing lists, etc. What it really boils down to is where are you getting the e-mail addresses? in what capacity did you collect them? and for what purpose are you using them?

If you log into your LUWS and extract people’s email addresses from there, you have taken them from a Church directory and are obligated to use them in accordance with the Church’s policies. This is essentially the same thing as using the ward directory of phone numbers. If you were to pick up the ward directory and start calling members for this political purpose, you could easily get tagged for inappropriate use. But what’s to stop you from writing the phone numbers (or e-mail addresses) onto another sheet of paper? Simply put, if anyone on that lists complains that you were not authorized to use their contact info for the political purpose, you could cause problems for the Church.

If you have collected all of the members’ addresses socially, and they have voluntarily given beefche their e-mail addresses, you are free to do with them whatever you please. However, if you have collected them as Relief Society president, the expectation is that you are collecting the information for use related to your calling. To then use those lists for political purposes could open you up to the criticism that you collected those addresses under false pretenses.

The Relief Society in my ward has been pretty adamant about wanting to maintain its own blog that will allow some of the same communications that happened in the old Google Group that we felt were inappropriate uses. The instruction we gave them was that they could not advertise the blog in Church, nor could they use Church time to encourage signing up, etc, and that all official activities and correspondence had to be posted on the LUWS. The “Girls’ Blog” (or whatever they called it) could not be affiliated or linked to the Church in any way.

I’m sure there are many ways you could parse words and split hairs to get around the policy, but that isn’t what we’re supposed to be doing. We know what the intent and purpose of these directories are, and we should adhere to their proper use, if for no other reason than to prevent PR nightmares like what this ward in Illinois is experiencing.

[Maxel]

To spread the Word, does the door need to be open or shut?

This bad publicity does not shut the door to any fair-minded person. In the least, it will not outlast a person's ability to overcome it and honestly seek the truth about the Gospel, which the Church proclaims. The door needs to be shut to the doctrines and practices of the devil.

ON a side note- I'm assuming you were talking about Prop 8 when you were talking about bad publicity. If I'm wrong, please correct me and slap a big 'UR A NOOB' sticker on my forehead. I guess I'm all about Prop 8 today b/c of the debate.

[Moksha]

If I'm wrong, please correct me and slap a big 'UR A NOOB' sticker on my forehead. I guess I'm all about Prop 8 today b/c of the debate.

No NOOB sticker for you. :) Whether it be Prop #8 or Prop #2, it is still politics. I like to have my own standards as set by the Church. That is my free agency. I also like to be joyous as spoken about by Joseph Smith. As my brother's keeper can I deny him the same?

[Hemidakota]

Well, the purpose of the Church is to declare the word of God as revealed to us by the prophets- not to be popular with the world.

Concur brother....there is more to come from the President of the Twelve.

However, if not happened already, I would expect the President of the church contacted the Midwest Area Seventy in-charged call his stake president over this issue.

[Hemidakota]

No NOOB sticker for you. :) Whether it be Prop #8 or Prop #2, it is still politics. I like to have my own standards as set by the Church. That is my free agency. I also like to be joyous as spoken about by Joseph Smith. As my brother's keeper can I deny him the same?

If you are thinking that Joseph would stand idling by...I would not assumed that position. I would believe he would look down the future path to see what will transpire for us as a church and as a nation.

[Hemidakota]

The situation you pose is one of splitting hairs and parsing words that we’ve been dealing with in my unit. We recently made the switch to exclusively using the Local Unit Web Site (LUWS) for ward communication in place of a Google Group that we had been in use for years. There have been several discussions in the ward trying to parse out what is and isn’t appropriate use of e-mail addresses, establishing mailing lists, etc. What it really boils down to is where are you getting the e-mail addresses? in what capacity did you collect them? and for what purpose are you using them?

If you log into your LUWS and extract people’s email addresses from there, you have taken them from a Church directory and are obligated to use them in accordance with the Church’s policies. This is essentially the same thing as using the ward directory of phone numbers. If you were to pick up the ward directory and start calling members for this political purpose, you could easily get tagged for inappropriate use. But what’s to stop you from writing the phone numbers (or e-mail addresses) onto another sheet of paper? Simply put, if anyone on that lists complains that you were not authorized to use their contact info for the political purpose, you could cause problems for the Church.

If you have collected all of the members’ addresses socially, and they have voluntarily given beefche their e-mail addresses, you are free to do with them whatever you please. However, if you have collected them as Relief Society president, the expectation is that you are collecting the information for use related to your calling. To then use those lists for political purposes could open you up to the criticism that you collected those addresses under false pretenses.

The Relief Society in my ward has been pretty adamant about wanting to maintain its own blog that will allow some of the same communications that happened in the old Google Group that we felt were inappropriate uses. The instruction we gave them was that they could not advertise the blog in Church, nor could they use Church time to encourage signing up, etc, and that all official activities and correspondence had to be posted on the LUWS. The “Girls’ Blog” (or whatever they called it) could not be affiliated or linked to the Church in any way.

I’m sure there are many ways you could parse words and split hairs to get around the policy, but that isn’t what we’re supposed to be doing. We know what the intent and purpose of these directories are, and we should adhere to their proper use, if for no other reason than to prevent PR nightmares like what this ward in Illinois is experiencing.

I was confronted by a Seventy President and another church committee with a creation of a separate church website for Marine parents for validity and privacy issues a couple of years ago. They have tough policies...

[hordak]

No NOOB sticker for you. :) Whether it be Prop #8 or Prop #2, it is still politics. I like to have my own standards as set by the Church. That is my free agency. I also like to be joyous as spoken about by Joseph Smith. As my brother's keeper can I deny him the same?

You know if the sin is the physical relationship then banning gay marriage doesn't interfere with agency anymore then making murder a crime does.

Disclaimer: not saying gays are like murderers but legislation aimed at outlawing an action(or in this case "normalize" it) doesn't take away agency.

[Maxel]

Whether it be Prop #8 or Prop #2, it is still politics. I like to have my own standards as set by the Church. That is my free agency. I also like to be joyous as spoken about by Joseph Smith. As my brother's keeper can I deny him the same?

Now I'm confused... How would bad publicity in the church ultimately deny your brother the same agency you have? I understand the argument about bad publicity, but in the Church's case, 2 facts are true: (well, at least 2)

1) There has always been plenty of bad publicity for the Church. Hasn't stopped its rapid growth.

2) Any publicity in the end is 'good' publicity in that any fair-minded person following the Light of Christ who is introduced to the Church- in any fashion- will eventually join it (whether it be in 5, 10, or 500 years).

Ultimately, the bad publicity is an unfortunate side effect of living in a fallen world. When God's people move in a direction ordained by God when the world is moving the opposite direction, people of the world decry the people of God.

If you were talking about Prop #8 supposedly denying your brother the same rights you enjoy... let's not get into that here. I agree to disagree to whatever.

[cofchristcousin]

This is a real question, and is an issue for my church and on an individual level as well. If you define ill will and persecution of your/and my denomination as the cost of doing the Lord's work, How does one ever hear legitimate and deserved criticism of your actions? What breaks through that defense when necessary?

[Maxel]

This is a real question, and is an issue for my church and on an individual level as well. If you define ill will and persecution of your/and my denomination as the cost of doing the Lord's work, How does one ever hear legitimate and deserved criticism of your actions? What breaks through that defense when necessary?

Fair enough of a question.

Personally, first and foremost I weigh who's doing the criticizing versus what their criticizing. I will readily admit the Church is not perfect. It was not designed to be perfect. However, the Lord leads it and it will reach its destination.

In situations where those criticizing are those who have agendas opposite to the teachings of the Church, I put no stock in their complaints. In my mind, their arguments are weighed in the sphere they are presented in- for example, if a case is brought up that the Church acted unconstitutionally or out of its authority in any way, I would weigh that claim against all the truth of the situation I can find. As of yet, I have never seen the Church be in the wrong in my opinion

In the end, the phase 'when necessary' (at the end of your post) needs to be understood correctly. The Lord does not use earthly institutions to bring about doctrinal or organizational changes to the Church, and he does not suffer men of worldly (and only worldly) learning to dictate the actions and course of the Church. In short, there is never a criticism brought to bear against the Church that is necessary to let 'break through' the defense.

[tubaloth]

I didn't really think people would take the thread in this direction.

Was on Digg and ended up finding this link

Box Turtle Bulletin Mormon Machine Cranking Up Against Illinois Civil Unions Bill

(My filter said this was a Gay site)

it has the full e-mail.

This message has been authorized for sending by Bishop Church.

The Civil Union Bill (HB 2234) has been scheduled for a hearing in the Youth and Family Committee this week on Thursday, March 5, 2009 at 9:00 a.m. in Springfield. If the bill is voted out of committee, it becomes eligible for a vote before the full Illinois House of Representatives. This bill will legalize civil unions in the state of Illinois, and will treat such civil unions with the same legal obligations, responsibilities, protections and benefits as are afforded within marriage. In other words, civil unions will be different in name only from marriage. As has already been seen in Massachusetts, this will empower the public schools to begin teaching this lifestyle to our young children regardless of parental requests otherwise. It will also create grounds for rewriting all social mores; the current push in Massachusetts is to recognize and legalize all transgender rights (An individual in Massachusetts can now change their drivers license to the gender they believe themselves to be, regardless of actual gender, which means that confused men and women are now legally entering one another’s bathrooms and locker rooms. What kind of a safety issue is this for our children?). Furthermore, while the bill legalizes civil unions, it will be used in the courts to show discrimination and will ultimately lead to court mandated same-sex marriages.

To help defeat this bill, please call your state representative and state senator and ask that they support traditional marriage and vote against the civil unions bill. If you are unsure who your legislators are, please see the link at the end of this email.

Also, please take a moment and call the following members of the Youth and Family Committee to encourage them to vote no on this bill. We need 4 votes to keep it from passing out of the committee. And - as always, please pass this on to all who believe in protecting our families and our children. If you are interested in attending the hearing, it will be held on Thursday, March 5th at 9:00 a.m. in Springfield in Room 122B of the Capitol Building (I can give you directions to the Capitol Building if needed).

[Hemidakota]

Fair enough of a question.

Personally, first and foremost I weigh who's doing the criticizing versus what their criticizing. I will readily admit the Church is not perfect. It was not designed to be perfect. However, the Lord leads it and it will reach its destination.

In situations where those criticizing are those who have agendas opposite to the teachings of the Church, I put no stock in their complaints. In my mind, their arguments are weighed in the sphere they are presented in- for example, if a case is brought up that the Church acted unconstitutionally or out of its authority in any way, I would weigh that claim against all the truth of the situation I can find. As of yet, I have never seen the Church be in the wrong in my opinion

In the end, the phase 'when necessary' (at the end of your post) needs to be understood correctly. The Lord does not use earthly institutions to bring about doctrinal or organizational changes to the Church, and he does not suffer men of worldly (and only worldly) learning to dictate the actions and course of the Church. In short, there is never a criticism brought to bear against the Church that is necessary to let 'break through' the defense.

Tares among the wheat?