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"God ordered killings" in the Old Testament and Book of Mormon.


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#1 PastorBob

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Posted 17 April 2009 - 10:25 PM

This is a response to the article "1st Nephi 4:11" in the gospel discussion forum. I recently sat down to discuss the book of Mormon with a recently returned Missionary and very good and intelligent man (who I will leave anonymous), who spoke some true words of wisdom regarding it: Missionary: "There is not a scrap of physical evidence to prove the Gospel. It is a Gospel of faith, and that is good enough for me. It may not be good enough for many other people, but that is just how it is." ME: "The Book of Mormon, like the Bible, is allegories which state the truth, and not to be read literally." Missionary: "Exactly!" The "killings" of the scriptures are symbolic and have nothing to do with actual violence toward a human being. It is another look at holding the "Iron Rod" and fighting with the ego which infects the mind of the common man and resists the act, which is here represented by Laban, or La Ban, French for "the bank," which is another way to describe "the two sons of oil which stand before the lord" or two thieves [of souls from the astral to put them "in the bank," or the material world] which are crucified with the Lord on the hill of the skull, which are resisting the command of the Lord to give up his spirit into the hands of our Father. To understand the book of Mormon, you have to understand Joseph Smith, and his true faith, along with that of all other 33rd Ancient Accepted Scottish Rite Masons. Religion, all religion, is inimical with this statement: "The Blue Degrees are but the outer portico of the Temple. Part of the symbols are displayed there to the Initiate, but he is intentionally mislead by false interpretation. It is not intended that he understand them, but it is intended that he shall imagine he understands them. Their true explication is reserved for the Adepts, the Princes of Masonry. The whole body of the Royal or Sacerdotal Art was hidden so carefully...in the High Degrees, as that it is even yet impossible to solve many of the enigmas which they contain. It is well enough for the many of those called Masons, to imagine that all is contained in the Blue Degrees; and whoso attempts to undeceive them will labor in vain, and without any true reward violate his obligations as an Adept. Masonry is the veritable Sphinx, buried to the head in the sands heaped round it by the ages." Albert Pike, Morals and Dogma, page. 819 Look at the aim of the Gospel: The "Celestial kingdom." OF THE SECRET OF FREEMASONRY Now of Him is our Lord the Sun Father, Creator, Preserver and Destroyer, One, Exalted, Perfect, Giver of Life and Death, Vicegerent and Vicegerent of Heaven; and upon Earth is His representative the Sacred Eidolon within the Ark of the Covenant of whom even in this place we speak not but in hidden terms, for that He is sacred and secret beyond all that are or may be, the Rod wherein Prometheus brought down Fire from heaven. And either Image and Son of the All-Father undergoeth Death and Resurrection; and the symbols are cognate; and the Feasts of one and the other have been celebrated throughout all recorded time by the initiates of all faiths. And the vulgar, ignorant of this, have mingled the two worships, appointing the times of one and the seasons of the other, the observances of the second and the ordinances of the first in the same ritual; wherefore have minds been darkened and understandings confounded. Thus at Easter is the Crucifixion or Copulation, and nine months later is the Birth of the Child, which liveth 33 years, being a generation of mankind, and is crucified. Yet is this coming led with the descent of the Sun below the Equator and His resurrection, and again with the daily agony of the Sun. Now then our Brethren, having the true Keys of all religion; namely that all cults typify either the Mysteries of Lingam and Yoni or of Sol, Luna, and Terra, can for themselves interpret all rites, create new faiths and new feasts, ruling the world in justice and righteousness under the Supreme and Most Holy King X° that is to them Father and God. For this is the arcanum of the Hierophants of old, that in this cult of the Sun in Heaven and of the Phallus on Earth all men can unite, for that these mysteries are reasonable and true, and no man can deny them. This is that which is written ‘Peace on Earth, Goodwill toward men!’ And this is the true and final secret of Freemasonry; this Sun, is it not the Great Architect of the Universe, the Father of the System, the Eidolon of the Macrocosm? And this Phallus, is it not the Great Architect of this other Universe of Man, the Father of the Race, the Eidolon of the Microcosm? Is not this that Truth which is established in the mouth of two witnesses? Wherefore be ye vigilant, preserving that Kingdom of God which is within you from defilement, chaste unto your Lord that is Light, Life, Love and Liberty indeed. Also, remember well that in all this instruction no word is wasted; and that by deep and continuous study of the text may ye enlighten your souls. Now then at last are ye indeed initiates of Freemasonry; now at last are ye worthy to rule and govern the Rite in the law of Righteousness and Truth, giving Light, Life, Liberty and Love to all men of full age, free and of good report, that solicit admission to the Lodge. Compare the 4th chapter with the 8th chapter of 1st Nephi. "1st Nephi capt. 4: 9 And I beheld his sword, and I drew it forth from the sheath thereof; and the hilt thereof was of pure gold, and the workmanship thereof was exceedingly fine, and I saw that the blade thereof was of the most precious steel. 10 And it came to pass that I was constrained by the Spirit that I should kill Laban; but I said in my heart: Never at any time have I shed the blood of man. And I shrunk and would that I might not slay him. 11 And the Spirit said unto me again: Behold the Lord hath delivered him into thy hands. Yea, and I also knew that he had sought to take away mine own life; yea, and he would not hearken unto the commandments of the Lord; and he also had taken away our property. 12 And it came to pass that the Spirit said unto me again: Slay him, for the Lord hath delivered him into thy hands; 13 Behold the Lord slayeth the wicked to bring forth his righteous purposes. It is better that one man should perish than that a nation should dwindle and perish in unbelief. 14 And now, when I, Nephi, had heard these words, I remembered the words of the Lord which he spake unto me in the wilderness, saying that: Inasmuch as thy seed shall keep my commandments, they shall prosper in the land of promise. 15 Yea, and I also thought that they could not keep the commandments of the Lord according to the law of Moses, save they should have the law. 16 And I also knew that the law was engraven upon the plates of brass. 17 And again, I knew that the Lord had delivered Laban into my hands for this cause—that I might obtain the records according to his commandments. 18 Therefore I did obey the voice of the Spirit, and took Laban by the hair of the head, and I smote off his head with his own sword. 19 And after I had smitten off his head with his own sword, I took the garments of Laban and put them upon mine own body; yea, even every whit; and I did gird on his armor about my loins. 20 And after I had done this, I went forth unto the treasury of Laban. And as I went forth towards the treasury of Laban, behold, I saw the servant of Laban who had the keys of the treasury. And I commanded him in the voice of Laban, that he should go with me into the treasury." Each of the cities/persons killed in the old testament have a Qabalistic meaning for one material desire (idolatry) of one form or another. Jesus taught to turn the other cheek - it is said that the first thing Satan taught man when he was cast out of heaven was self-defense and to kill to eat. Scriptures are symbolic, and are to be read spiritually, not materially. "The literal interpretation of the bible is for the vulgar only." -Albert Pike, morals and dogma Acts chapter 10, the admonition not to reject peoples of other races and faiths: "13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat. 14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean. 15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common." Another: 1st Timothy 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: If we read the bible literally, then God contradicts himself when he says the use of animal flesh is ONLY allowed when it's a choice between your life or the animals: D&C section 89, 12 Yea, flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly; 13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine. 14 All grain is ordained for the use of man and of beasts, to be the staff of life, not only for man but for the beasts of the field, and the fowls of heaven, and all wild animals that run or creep on the earth; 15 And these hath God made for the use of man only in times of famine and excess of hunger.

#2 john doe

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Posted 18 April 2009 - 07:28 AM

So, what you're saying is that the Bible and Book of Mormon are based in Masonic tradition?
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#3 DHK

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Posted 18 April 2009 - 08:17 AM

Ether 15:31

31 And it came to pass that after he had smitten off the head of Shiz, that Shiz raised up on his hands and fell; and after that he had struggled for breath, he died.


I don't know about you, but that seems pretty literal to me.

The scriptures ARE to be taken literally - unless they are relating a story or prophesy of symbolism. The Allegory of the Olive Tree is literal - if you understand it. Revelations is literal, if you understand it.

God did kill Egyptians in the Red Sea.

God did kill those in Soddom & Gommorah.

God did flood the earth at the time of Noah.

3 Nephi chapters 9 & 10 are rather literal.

I'm sorry, but that missionary was incorrect. (It is known to happen. Not every missionary understands EVERYTHING in a precise way.)

#4 TruthSeekerToo

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Posted 18 April 2009 - 11:53 AM

Thanks for sharing this. As you may know, I am one who is trying to understand these particular scriptures. I was pondering today on what Laban was symbolic of. Thank you for your thoughts on that! I was thinking greed and spiritual death. It is amazing what the Spirit will teach us through the scriptures if we ask with an open heart. I can't really put into words what I am learning about Nephi & Laban. But I can testify that this story is more than what is initially read.
Mosiah 27:26 And thus they become new creatures; and unless they do this, they can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

#5 PastorBob

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Posted 18 April 2009 - 01:54 PM

So, what you're saying is that the Bible and Book of Mormon are based in Masonic tradition?


Yes.

Ezra Taft Benson said many times, that the book of Mormon was the most correct book on earth. Why was this?

When we read about the finding of the golden plates in the hill Cumorah, we are to understand it as the finding of the literally written bible in Jerusalem by the Templars during their excavations, which is today given to 33rd Masons and members of other organizations. Joseph Smith was killed by his own lodge for putting large portions (but only portions, he left much out, or "sealed" as it was too much to give out right now) of it in the book of Mormon. (Note that he recognized his brethren in the crowd, and tried to give the sign of distress "Oh Lord my God, who will have mercy on the widow's son?" but was shot and fell from the window before he made it past the 4th word.)

A careful study of the bible and the book of Mormon, with the carnal eyes closed, and the spiritual eyes opened, will prove their self-evident truths.

#6 DHK

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Posted 18 April 2009 - 04:04 PM

Please tell me when Joseph Smith Jr. became a mason? (I know he was. I want to know WHEN.)

#7 PastorBob

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Posted 18 April 2009 - 04:34 PM

Please tell me when Joseph Smith Jr. became a mason?

(I know he was. I want to know WHEN.)


He was officially recognized on March 15, 1842, but had been active since late December, 1823, a few days after his 18th birthday.

#8 john doe

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Posted 18 April 2009 - 05:18 PM

So you're a believer in the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon? After all, according to you, it's just as masonic as the Bible, right? How do you reconcile the fact that the Book of Mormon purports itself to be a religious history of people who came to the Americas from the Middle East with the idea that it is allegorical Masonry?
Pressure: It can turn a lump of coal into a flawless diamond, or an average person into a perfect basketcase.
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Except for ending slavery, fascism, nazism, & communism, WAR HAS NEVER SOLVED ANYTHING!
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#9 DHK

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Posted 18 April 2009 - 05:44 PM

He was officially recognized on March 15, 1842, but had been active since late December, 1823, a few days after his 18th birthday.


1842 would sound right to me.

What is your source for his being active in Masonry since 1823?

(I'm sure you know where I'm going with this, but your information intrigues me.)

#10 PastorBob

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Posted 18 April 2009 - 05:58 PM

1842 would sound right to me.

What is your source for his being active in Masonry since 1823?

(I'm sure you know where I'm going with this, but your information intrigues me.)


Check your inbox. ;)

#11 KingDavid

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Posted 22 September 2009 - 07:34 AM

Apparently not much goes on here. Nothing added since April 2009!

Pastor Bob, the "spirituallizing" of the Bible (i.e., converting much or all of what was meant to be understood literally) is as old as the house of Israel. Jacob (younger brother of Nephi) pointed this out—

13 Behold, my brethren, he that prophesieth, let him prophesy to the understanding of men; for the Spirit speaketh the truth and lieth not. Wherefore, it speaketh of things as they really are, and of things as they really will be; wherefore, these things are manifested unto us plainly, for the salvation of our souls. But behold, we are not witnesses alone in these things; for God also spake them unto prophets of old.

14 But behold, the Jews were a stiffnecked people; and they despised the words of plainness, and killed the prophets, and sought for things that they could not understand. Wherefore, because of their blindness, which blindness came by LOOKING BEYOND THE MARK, they must needs fall; for God hath taken away his plainness from them, and delivered unto them many things which they cannot understand, because they desired it. And because they desired it God hath done it, that they may stumble.

15 And now I, Jacob, am led on by the Spirit unto prophesying; for I perceive by the workings of the Spirit which is in me, that by the stumbling of the Jews they will reject the stone upon which they might build and have safe foundation.

(Book of Mormon | Jacob 4:13 - 15)

Jesus, himself, also pointed out how "the Jews" (i.e., the house of Israel) had (as you do) disbelieved the scriptures (supposing them to be either less than they are or something different from what they are)—

Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken
(New Testament | Luke 24:25)

#12 PastorBob

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Posted 27 October 2009 - 01:17 PM

"But behold, the Jews were a stiffnecked people; and they despised the words of plainness, and killed the prophets, and sought for things that they could not understand. Wherefore, because of their blindness, which blindness came by LOOKING BEYOND THE MARK, they must needs fall; for God hath taken away his plainness from them, and delivered unto them many things which they cannot understand, because they desired it. And because they desired it God hath done it, that they may stumble."

I am quite familiar with that paragraph directly from the ritual itself.

Order of Mark Master Masons - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

#13 KingDavid

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Posted 27 October 2009 - 04:07 PM

PastorBob, The quote I gave is from the Book of Mormon. Are you calling that book of scripture a "ritual", or are you referring to something else?

#14 PastorBob

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Posted 19 November 2009 - 10:25 AM

The verse you highlighted were borrowed directly word for word from the rites, Joseph Smith was a 33rd Freemason. Also see 1st Nephi chapter 8 verses 19-24. "Now then our Brethren, having the true Keys of all religion; namely that all cults typify either the Mysteries of Lingam and Yoni or of Sol, Luna, and Terra, can for themselves interpret all rites, create new faiths and new feasts, ruling the world in justice and righteousness..." "Was not Lao-Tze thrust forth from his city? Did not Buddha go begging in rags? Did not Mohammed flee for his life into exile? Was not Bacchus (Jesus) the scandal and the scorn of men? Than Joseph Smith Had any man less learning? Yet each of these attained to do his Will; each cried his Word, that all the Earth yet echoes it! And each was able to accomplish this by virtue of that very circumstance which seems so cruel..."

#15 Relentless

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Posted 15 December 2009 - 10:48 AM

"But behold, the Jews were a stiffnecked people; and they despised the words of plainness, and killed the prophets, and sought for things that they could not understand. Wherefore, because of their blindness, which blindness came by LOOKING BEYOND THE MARK, they must needs fall; for God hath taken away his plainness from them, and delivered unto them many things which they cannot understand, because they desired it. And because they desired it God hath done it, that they may stumble."

I am quite familiar with that paragraph directly from the ritual itself.

Order of Mark Master Masons - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Um, the link you posted does not show "that paragraph directly from the ritual itself"

If you are going to post a link to prove a point, maybe it should be more than a broad history of a certain rite...

#16 gusrod78

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Posted 07 April 2010 - 10:48 AM

Brothers! Take away the Bible and the Book of Mormon and all you have is the holy ghost which clearly tells me that PastorBob is full of it. Forget freemasonry, Scripture coding, quotes out of context and focus on what really matters: salvation thru works and grace. Now turn off your computers and go out and do some good!

#17 marts1

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Posted 07 April 2010 - 11:05 AM

lol good can be had where ever you might be. :)

#18 Elgama

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 06:22 AM

Thing is God is immortal and so are we - He understands He is not killing anyone - for me scripture is both literal and symbolic. Laban is quite simply anyone who's presence in the church or the world holds so many people back from progressing to their fullness that actually eternity would be a better place without them. There are many people in the church like this, I know one who has worked hard to destroy a whole area. He did exist and the situation also teaches - I have had a situation in my life where I needed to follow God instead of what would normally be right in order to get my family to eternity. Ultimately God and eternity come before all else - I gain a lot of strength from this and other similar scriptures

#19 Elgama

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 06:25 AM

oops just realised its a very old thread lol




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