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President Obamas Speech Last Nite


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#41 Maxel

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 04:00 PM

So, the most honest person in that entire meeting was the representative who shouted "You lie!"?
2 Nephi 2:25: Adam fell that men might be; and men are, that they might have joy.
2 Nephi 25:23, 26: For we labor diligently... to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do... And we talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, we prophesy of Christ, and we write according to our prophecies, that our children may know to what source they may look for a remission of their sins.

#42 Moksha

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 05:14 PM

Sure they are. But health care is not just about insurance companies. Everything has contributed to the problems with health care in this country--insurance, pharmaceutical/medical companies, government, individual's lifestyle/choices, inefficiency, fraud, etc.


Don't forget unnecessary medical tests. Had a friend in the hospital who received seven blood chemistry and CBCs draws during his five stay, even though the reason he was there had nothing to do with those type of tests. The first one should have been sufficient.
Jesus said, "The first in importance is, love the Lord God.'
And here is the second: 'Love others as well as you love yourself.'
There is no other commandment that ranks with these."


Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace


#43 Moksha

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 05:30 PM

Choosing Words Carefully

Some of the president’s factual claims, while accurate, were notable for his careful wording.

Obama: There are now more than 30 million American citizens who cannot get coverage.

“Citizens” is the operative word here. And even so, the 30 million figure is an understatement. The official Census figure for 2007 was actually 45.7 million persons in the U.S., but that figure includes an estimated 10 million who are not U.S. citizens, including 5.6 million who are here illegally, according to the National Institute for Health Care Management Foundation. That still leaves about 35.7 million U.S. citizens without health coverage in 2007, well above the president’s figure. And hours after the president spoke, Census released new figures for 2008, showing the total number of uninsured went up slightly, to 46.3 million.


If you want to check the facts on speeches in a non-partisan way, tune into the real deal:

Obama’s Health Care Speech | FactCheck.org

:)
Jesus said, "The first in importance is, love the Lord God.'
And here is the second: 'Love others as well as you love yourself.'
There is no other commandment that ranks with these."


Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace


#44 Palerider

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 05:31 PM

So, the most honest person in that entire meeting was the representative who shouted "You lie!"?


the most honest person in that room???...LOL!!!!!!....that would be like trying to find a needle in a haystack....:eek::eek::eek:
As Long As I Am Here......It Doesn't Matter Where Here Is.....

Governments tend not to solve problems, only to rearrange them....Ronald Reagan

The income tax has made more liars out of the American people than golf has.......Will Rogers





#45 Maxel

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 06:14 PM

Something funny I just saw:

Literally seconds before Rep. Joe Wilson yelled out "You Lie!" (and the reaction of righteous indignation from the Dems), Obama called Sarah Palin and "certain talk show hosts" liars- and received a standing ovation.

Double Standard? Hypocrisy? Yes, and yes. Granted the Repubs are no better- but does no one in the news (other than FOX) see the irony? I found out via a blog.
2 Nephi 2:25: Adam fell that men might be; and men are, that they might have joy.
2 Nephi 25:23, 26: For we labor diligently... to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do... And we talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, we prophesy of Christ, and we write according to our prophecies, that our children may know to what source they may look for a remission of their sins.

#46 Palerider

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 06:32 PM

Only Republicans are liars.....ask any Democrat.....:)
As Long As I Am Here......It Doesn't Matter Where Here Is.....

Governments tend not to solve problems, only to rearrange them....Ronald Reagan

The income tax has made more liars out of the American people than golf has.......Will Rogers





#47 anatess

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 08:07 PM

Anatess:
Let's discuss the one point of health care. Leave Rush out of the equation. He has no relevance.


Yep! Let's do that. :) Although, I have to admit, I don't listen to Rush, so I don't really know what he said about it. I just heard some of my friends say, "Rush said...". And then, of course, the Pres. mentioned him and other talk show hosts (albeit, not by name, but we all agree who he was talking about).


I do not share the belief that illegal immigration is outside of the health care issue for the following reasons.

1. If illegal immigrants are included then we are talking about 10M - 11M additional people that will be required under the Bill to have health insurance, who should not be eligible for it at taxpayers expense. Estimated to be approx. 30 Billion Dollars

2. Illegal immigrants or aliens if you prefer are not citizens and therefore should not enjoy the same government benefits as our taxpaying lawful citizens. However there are no penalties included if illegals obtain benefits using illegal means. E.G. Forged Documents,

3. If the Health Care Bill is passed in its present form, then based on Obamas speech the other nite, we as legal citizens and taxpayers heard him say that the bill would not cover Illegal. Therefore our expectation is they are not nor will they be covered. Neither will they be as long as they are illegal.
However, if as part of a great plan to get the Health Care Plan passed and signed into law by our Congress and President, prior to the Amnesty Bill, then it is very conceivable that the next step, prior to the Health Care Bill taking affect (4 yrs. from now) would be to grant all present 10-11M illegal immigrants Amnesty, which then magically makes them eligible for Government Health Care.

4. If the real intent if defiantly they will not receive it under HR 3200, then it should also contain sufficient language to exclude anyone granted citizenship under the Amnesty Bill, who are living in the U.S at present. You and I both know, this will never happen.

5. Under HR 3200 as it stands, everyone in the U.S. is mandated to have some type of health care
insurance. This either private or government option. So, if the 10 M or so illegal immigrants are still here, what happens to them. They by having no insurance provided by their employer, and cannot afford any, must be covered by the government's plan, otherwise they are illegal and can be put in jail (where we can provide for them at taxpayers expense).

6. Unless the Illegal Immigrant issue is addressed now, the HR 3200 bill will never have the support of the majority of the American People. The majority of taxpayers are not in favor of their tax dollars being used to aid illegal immigrants in any manner. I might add, neithe are most in favor of granting them amnesty.

7. Even though Obama indicated they will not be covered, there is nothing written in the HR 3200, that will enforce this should it happen. EG: Proof of Citizenship, legal penalties, deportation.


Lilered, I have to say, you make excellent points. But, the Amnesty issue is completely separate from the Healthcare Issue. The Healthcare Bill should not have to address anything other than to specifically state that it has no provisions for illegal immigrants.

Anything specific that applies to Illegal Immigrants granted Amnesty should be provisioned in the Amnesty Bill, not the Healthcare Bill and voted as such. Because, Amnesty does not just impact healthcare - it also impacts welfare, medicare, medicaid, social security, government grants, education, etc. etc. etc., and they all have to be accounted for.

Although I am opposed to the Healthcare Bill, I am in favor of an Amnesty Bill - not exactly like the McCain-Kennedy bill, but a version of it. Not because I want to reward illegal action, but because I believe it is the most efficient way (if not the only possible way) to flush out the culprits out of their hidy-holes and end the influx of more of them. I can give you a point-by-point discussion on why I think it is a good idea, but it would be hijacking this thread, so if you are interested, I can start a thread or we can just go do it in PMs.

As I'm not a US citizen but a Resident alien (i so don't like that term! It makes me feel like Sigourney Weaver is gonna chase after me with a flame thrower!), I have sufficiently studied the Immigration issue. It took me a looooonnnngggg time with tons of paperwork and qualifications to finally get US entry visa that it makes my blood boil to see people just skate through the chain-link fences!

#48 lilered

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Posted 12 September 2009 - 12:22 PM

Anatess: No, it isn't necessary to discuss this further here. I just don't happen to share your view on Health Care and Amnesty are not intertwined. I am very skepticial of Congress at this point and the potential for hidden agendas towards both topics by all involved. Should you want to discuss the Amnesty Bill as it is presently written on a point by point basis. I would be happy to do it. But whether or it be a seperate or personal thread makes no difference to me.

#49 lilered

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Posted 12 September 2009 - 12:33 PM

One good thing that has come out of the Health Care Bill is that ordinary Americans have suddenly became interested in what our Government is doing. Even to the point of writing to their Congress person, talking on talk radio, writing their opinions in local newspapers and attending Town Hall Meetings to express themselves, etc.. This in my opinion is good. We all need to be involved and let our feelings about certain subjects be known to those who are supposed to be our representatives. I can only hope that this improvement continues in the future and we all don't go back to being couch potatoes, cussing our government, but doing nothing beyond that.

#50 Palerider

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Posted 12 September 2009 - 01:15 PM

One good thing that has come out of the Health Care Bill is that ordinary Americans have suddenly became interested in what our Government is doing. Even to the point of writing to their Congress person, talking on talk radio, writing their opinions in local newspapers and attending Town Hall Meetings to express themselves, etc.. This in my opinion is good. We all need to be involved and let our feelings about certain subjects be known to those who are supposed to be our representatives.

I can only hope that this improvement continues in the future and we all don't go back to being couch potatoes, cussing our government, but doing nothing beyond that.

It is amazing what can happen when the people get stirred up.....or when they join an angry mob...:):)
As Long As I Am Here......It Doesn't Matter Where Here Is.....

Governments tend not to solve problems, only to rearrange them....Ronald Reagan

The income tax has made more liars out of the American people than golf has.......Will Rogers





#51 Moksha

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Posted 12 September 2009 - 02:28 PM

It is amazing what can happen when the people get stirred up.....or when they join an angry mob...:):)


They get their torches and march on Castle Frankenstein?

Storm the Cathedral of Notre Dame in search of Quasimodo?

Ride to Haun's Mill?
Jesus said, "The first in importance is, love the Lord God.'
And here is the second: 'Love others as well as you love yourself.'
There is no other commandment that ranks with these."


Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace


#52 lilered

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Posted 12 September 2009 - 04:07 PM

Or have Tea Partys like the good old days in Boston Harbor.

#53 Palerider

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Posted 12 September 2009 - 04:21 PM

They get their torches and march on Castle Frankenstein?

Storm the Cathedral of Notre Dame in search of Quasimodo?

Ride to Haun's Mill?

After Notre Dame losing today....they just might storm the Cathedral.....:D:D
As Long As I Am Here......It Doesn't Matter Where Here Is.....

Governments tend not to solve problems, only to rearrange them....Ronald Reagan

The income tax has made more liars out of the American people than golf has.......Will Rogers








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