Why am i a liberal l.d.s?

[jadams_4040]

Ok so after reading various threads in regards to our president of the united states and all the lack of respect for the man and the office amongst most l.d.s; I just got to thinking Why am i a democrat mormon?

Well first off i,m a democrat because we do not beleive in abortion as the right would have it, i have never in my 56 years of life met anybody {right or left} That beleives in abortion is a good, moral or correct thing to be done; I do beleive it needs to be the parents, and Gods desicion, not the government; {for those of you whom continually profess smaller and less intrusive government:)};I also beleive in holy scripture, both the bible and l.d.s; that does always instruct us to be tolerant and charitable to those whom have less than we do; W/out citing actuall scripture; it does warn us to be mindfull of and charitable to those whom are in need and it is not ours to be the judge as to what the reasons are why they are poor and in need; it is ours to help our fellow brothers and sisters, Always. The lord God judges, not us. While so many of us big fat cat americans sit around in our big comfortable chairs watching sattelite tv and eating three good meals a day {plus}. drive our gas guzzling cars with heating and air conditioning e;t;c....Enjoy health care insurance for ourselves and families. All the time listening to talk radio and such doing nothing but bashing the little man and his family for being poor, listening to scicotic idiotic liars such as limbaugh. tell of how horrible and wrong it is for this president to actually be wanting to spend money on the needy in this country; I just dont understand how we can spend this country into 500 trillion dollar debt, giving money to corporations tax breaks {that was supposed to create jobs by the way}, killing tens of thousands of innocent people to aquire oil, millions litteraly dieing because of no health insurance. thousands losing insurance every day; And this gos on and on and on {if someone wants to discuss}, In this country it has been proven that about 18,000 people die every year because they canott go see a doctor; myself i went for twelve {12} years working with a broken wrist, doing heavy labor, because when i broke it wnd went to the hospital, {which by the way the taxpayers had to pick up that bill cause we had no insurance and absolutely impossible to pay for it} living in estreme agony each and every day of my life doing the very best i possibly could to try and support my family, i never missed a day of work. EVER!. I have always been a very patriotic american citizen hard working, honest to the core. a few years into my 12 year bone degeneration in my wrist, my wife almost died because of a tubal pregnancy that had burst. {!}, i took her to the local doctor, and because we had no money he sent her on her way, {which happened many times to us}, finally after she started to turn white, i took her to a vegas hospital emergency room, she was under the knife inside of two hours; doctor said another hour and she would have been dead from blood loss. {by the way the american taxpayer had to pick up this bill as well}, I have other horror stories to tell but i beleive I have made my point;

So as i set and listen to american citisens condeming this president and those americans whom have not received the blessings of the rest of americans thru no fault of there own, as i listen to how horrible of a thing it is to actually "spend money" on those idiot american citizens whom are idiots because life hasnt given them a fair deal, it truely mmakes me sad to see how far off course we have become; how far away from heavenly fathers instructions; those of us whom are l.d.s and beleive we are being completely worhy all the time condoning hate towards the needy and those whom are trying to help, need to stop and think about what are we doing? why are we acting like this, and where are our morals and values?

Are we not instructed to do all we can and should be doing to become more Christlike? in this church when a member is down and out and in trouble, {health or home} we gang together to help, the church has a welfare and tithing system to help not only those of our faith but humanitarian needs across the globe. We do not mock nor deny, but we put forth a helping hand whenever and however it is needed; We now have a president of the united states that cares about all those needy and less fortunate people; those people whom are really and truely dieing for lack of health insurance, those whom are living homeless in the heat and cold, those whom are starving and in need of jobs and life sustaining nutrition of somesort. my freinds, this stuff is real, it is very very real, it happens to millions whom do not deserve it; i can only {and i do daily} pray that as american patriotic citizens we can lift ourselves above the caotic thinking that is so wrong and so misstated by those whom are only afraid of losing a little money from there bank accounts to help those in need as the lord God as warned us. these are only a few of the reasons why i am a democrat mormon. :)

[Snow]

i have never in my 56 years of life met anybody {right or left} That beleives in abortion is a good, moral or correct thing to be done;

Do you get out much?

I live in a very conservative area and yet I know lots of people that believe abortion is moral or the correct thing to do. For example: Jill.

btw... remind me sometime... I'd like to introduce you to a friend of mine, the paragraph... if you are ever in town.

[farmer]

I realize now the depth of my own naivety. My eyes have been opened. Until now I believed that people like you were an exaggeration. Surely you reign supreme among your kind.

[Maxel]

I don't think being mean to jadams helps anything, guys. I don't agree with him either, but disagreement is no reason to be cruel.

[the_last_gunslinger]

Another liberal Mormon? I thought I was the only one.

[Palerider]

I am not liberal....and I am quite happy to be a republican. I know our church has General Authorities on both sides of the political aisle. I am also happy they don't tell me who to vote for. I am part of a Angry Mob and happy to belong to that Mob.....I do listen to the "Liar Limbaugh" and proud of it...... Edited September 12, 2009 by Palerider

[john doe]

Forced charity is not charity. I'm all for helping out my fellow man and the downtrodden in whatever way I can, but it should be done voluntarily as I can afford and as I see fit. Christ did not tell us to give all our money to the government since they know how to use our money better than we do. The Good Samaritan in the parable did not drop the injured man off at the welfare office, he took care of him as best he could. When government gets in the business of charity it becomes cumbersome, overly expensive, and has very little oversight, if at all. There is no incentive for government-run agencies to be efficient or stay within budget.

If the government goes bankrupt by 'trying to help the downtrodden', who really is helped at all? I challenge the Left to come up with a healthcare plan that will be revenue-neutral with no decay in quality of care. If you find one that is viable, you will find that many people here will drop their adamant opposition to it.

[bytor2112]

jadams,

Sounds like you have lived a life full of challenges. While I disagree with your conclusions and much of your post, I appreciate the fact that you are a passionate advocate for the less fortunate among us.

I too believe in helping the less fortunate among us and also believe that the government COULD play a vital role in helping to change the lives of so many in this country. Our government has become less a government of the people, by the people and for the people and more a government of the powerful and influential. ( I sound like a liberal, right?) The truth is that neither party represent the American people very well.

It is my sincere belief that reducing the size and scope of government, eliminating wasteful spending and creating a FAIR tax system is the surest way to help the less fortunate among us and insure that the interests of American citizen are addressed. It is difficult to understand how reasonable and hopefully rational people can possibly believe that the current state of our economy is going to be improved by adding to an already unsustainable debt yet another mismanaged government run entitlement program.

But I digress, the issue of health care reform has been discussed ad nauseum. For what ever it's worth, I believe that President Obama only wants what is best for America (as all past Presidents have) BUT, I don't share his vision for our nation.

Thanks for posting your views. I believe they are sincere, well intentioned and though we disagree, perhaps you can engage in future dialogue with a bit more of an open mind.

[Palerider]

Forced charity is not charity. I'm all for helping out my fellow man and the downtrodden in whatever way I can, but it should be done voluntarily as I can afford and as I see fit. Christ did not tell us to give all our money to the government since they know how to use our money better than we do. The Good Samaritan in the parable did not drop the injured man off at the welfare office, he took care of him as best he could. When government gets in the business of charity it becomes cumbersome, overly expensive, and has very little oversight, if at all. There is no incentive for government-run agencies to be efficient or stay within budget.

If the government goes bankrupt by 'trying to help the downtrodden', who really is helped at all? I challenge the Left to come up with a healthcare plan that will be revenue-neutral with no decay in quality of care. If you find one that is viable, you will find that many people here will drop their adamant opposition to it.

I have issues when someone tells me that if I am not for this Healthcare bunk that I am not Christ like and don't care about helping people.:eek:

[Palerider]

Another liberal Mormon? I thought I was the only one.

don't feel bad....I know several of them around here where I live....:o:)

[skippy740]

First, thank you for sharing. I often wonder how a liberal mormon perceives things.

There is a fallacy in your logic, if you'll permit me to share it with you.

Giving and providing to those who have little or nothing is good. Having it FORCIBLY TAKEN through our country's TAX SYSTEM is not. It actually removes the blessings from the donor/giver/tax-payer from being able to give it freely of himself.

I would like to see our local churches and charities empowered more in the area of social programs instead of government administration.

Not everybody who dislikes our President's policies is rich. I'm not doing so well and I don't like the President's proposals - even though I would qualify to benefit from it.

Corporations are in business to make and keep a profit. The less they are taxed, the more they can choose to grow. Or they can pocket the tax difference. How corporations spend their money is none of our business (unless they are public). Now, with health insurance, a corporation is wanting to make a profit. If they can cut a major expense (like a subsidized employee benefit) in half, would they do it? Of course. This would make the Government health care plan the NATIONALIZED plan. Yes, you don't HAVE to, but what would a corporation do? They want to save expenses just like we do. Make it cheap enough with plenty of incentives and we can say goodbye to the private health insurance sector, capitalism in that arena and other choices, waiting periods, etc.

There are people who are down for a period of time - perhaps a few years. Then you have the people who are poor, have 8 kids and are a drain of resources. Think of the FLDS accusations. Part of those accusations were that they had so many kids so they can get more government assistance. Think of the illegal immigrants who come here for work and free food, free college, free housing, etc., etc., etc. So they keep themselves in their situations (and even make them worse) so they can keep getting the free aid. (Well it's not free, it came from somewhere. See my tax paragraph above.)

It's not about those who are poor for a few years. It's about those who are "chronically poor" and will never get out of that rut and continue to make their situation worse and feel entitled to more government aid.

[Guest]

I am LDS and I am a liberal - although, you wouldn't get that idea reading my myriad posts. Because, today's American liberal is a corruption of the word. I want to take back the liberal connotation away from the democrats! Grrr! Coz now, I don't know what to call myself!

Liberal - somebody who believes the liberty of the individual supercedes the norm/faith/tradition of society. A liberal believes that no government should dictate morality nor compassion. No government should limit individual achievement, economic prosperity, and acquisition of property practiced legally. The power of government should be limited. GOVERNMENT SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO FORCIBLY TAKE FROM ONE INDIVIDUAL TO GIVE ANOTHER!

That was the TRUE definition of a liberal. Not anymore. Not today. So, I can't call myself a liberal anymore. I'm now a... a... hmm... __________. I don't know. Fill in the blank.

Oh, that fetus in the belly? That's an inidividual. Yep.

Edited September 12, 2009 by anatess

[skippy740]

Libertarian

[Elphaba]

. . . . perhaps you can engage in future dialogue with a bit more of an open mind. (bold mine)

Hey Bytor,

I'm fairly sure you meant . . . "we" can engage in future dialogue . . .

Elphaba

[Kawazu]

Liberal - somebody who believes the liberty of the individual supercedes the norm/faith/tradition of society. A liberal believes that no government should dictate morality nor compassion. No government should limit individual achievement, economic prosperity, and acquisition of property practiced legally. The power of government should be limited. GOVERNMENT SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO FORCIBLY TAKE FROM ONE INDIVIDUAL TO GIVE ANOTHER!

That was the TRUE definition of a liberal. Not anymore. Not today. So, I can't call myself a liberal anymore. I'm now a... a... hmm... __________. I don't know. Fill in the blank.

Oddly enough, I know of people who would like to apply the platform you have outlined in order to restore the true meaning of the word 'conservative'. Language is a tough battle. If the 'libertarian' brand carries too much baggage for you, you can always opt for 'independent' as a descriptor... Or you can really throw people through a loop with a lesser-known affiliation such as 'minarchist' or, 'voluntaryist'. It is really a matter of preference.

[bytebear]

I have seen the LDS Church welfare system, and I know for a fact that we can take care of the poor, the downtrodden, and the down and out without one dime of help from any government.

[MrsAri]

Abortion is immoral...unless the health of the mother is in jeopardy. The fact that Obama is pro-abortion (for population control purposes) speaks volumes about his lack of character.

Edited September 12, 2009 by GrandmaAri

[MrsAri]

I have seen the LDS Church welfare system, and I know for a fact that we can take care of the poor, the downtrodden, and the down and out without one dime of help from any government.

To date, the directive from our local church leaders is to apply for government assistance.

Edited September 12, 2009 by GrandmaAri

[Palerider]

I have seen the LDS Church welfare system, and I know for a fact that we can take care of the poor, the downtrodden, and the down and out without one dime of help from any government.

you can get assistance from the church and help from the Gov't at the same time...its up to your Bishop to decide. You have to remember the Church Welfare program is to be used to sustain a person thru short term not long term.

[Guest Godless]

Abortion is immoral...unless the health of the mother is in jeopardy. The fact that Obama is pro-abortion (for population control purposes) speaks volumes about his lack of character.

Do you have a source for that outrageous claim? Or are you just regurgitating something you heard from Glenn O'Hannitybaugh?

[bytor2112]

Hey Bytor,

I'm fairly sure you meant . . . "we" can engage in future dialogue . . .

Elphaba

Yes....thank you!

[bytor2112]

Do you have a source for that outrageous claim? Or are you just regurgitating something you heard from Glenn O'Hannitybaugh?

Is he related to Sean O'Limbeck or Rachel Obenmahr?

[annewandering]

You know what? Tell me how much I care where the money comes from when I am bleeding to death because I couldnt get treatment for a problem that took less than 15 minutes to take care of when two doctors nearly had a heart attack themselves when they saw I was nearly out of blood from a CHRONIC health problem that had gone untreated for 20 years despite other doctors knowing about it. Out of blood means down to 4 on the scale.

What is wrong with us that we have to be FORCED to help people who are destitute and dying? Don't tell me that you would help in a charitable way. If you were then how many of the people who die each year did you help? I can tell you right now. None.

Health care is only one of many issues. I have never seen so many people moan and groan about government spending yet everyone of you use the highways and the many other government provided benefits we enjoy in this country.

Some refuse to send their kids to public schools but even you benefit from the tax dollars that go to education. When your house is on fire who do you call? What water do you use? When you get robbed who do you call?

When you need medical care who do you go to? How many of these people were helped in their education one way or other by our government?

How can people be so blind and so self centered to not care about anyone but their own selves and their dollars. No wonder Christ said it was easier for a rich man to get to heaven than a camel to pass through the eye of a needle. Yes you are rich. Even I am rich compared to the people of his time. We are so caught up in our lives and our own troubles we just dont want to see outside our walls.

Yes I am a liberal. God said He would give liberally and upbraideth not. He has never stinted in His love for us but we sadly stint in our love for our fellow man.

Teach a man to fish and he will not go hungry. Well it sounds good but while you do it he starves to death because he has no pole.

Forced charity is not good but no charity at all is terrible and will not put anyone in the Celestial Kingdom. I am not talking about money here. I am talking about love of your fellow man.

[MrsAri]

Do you have a source for that outrageous claim? Or are you just regurgitating something you heard from Glenn O'Hannitybaugh?

Thou shalt not kill.

[mnn727]

I have issues when someone tells me that if I am not for this Healthcare bunk that I am not Christ like and don't care about helping people.:eek:

Why don't you stop shouting? Your use of bold and large type in no way means that what you are saying is more important than anyone elses.

Someone shouting shows to me that they might be incapable of acually carrying on a rational conversation or that they could care less what anyone else says as theirs is the only opinion they care about.