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Joseph Smith and Kolob explained.


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#1 PastorBob

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Posted 19 November 2009 - 10:56 AM

Kolob - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"saw the stars, that they were very great, and that one of them was nearest unto the throne of God;....and the name of the great one is Kolob, because it is near unto me, for I am the Lord thy God: I have set this one to govern all those which belong to the same order as that upon which thou standest." -Pearl of Great Price

Kolob is modernized Hebrew for Mercury, alt. spelling is Kokob in older texts.

#2 puf_the_majic_dragon

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Posted 19 November 2009 - 11:38 AM

Dig out your PoGP and read Abraham 3. Once you've done that, Kolob == Christ. Now go back and read it again.

#3 PastorBob

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Posted 19 November 2009 - 11:08 PM

I am not theorizing on this, you must keep in mind that Joseph Smith (and all the other prophets) were a Freemason, and that he was teaching the goal of making it to the Celestial Kingdom.

“As we conquer the conditions of a planet, we incarnate on the next planet inward until we return to the Father of All, when our experiences link together, become intelligible, and star speaks to star. Terra is the last planet where bodies are made of earth; in Venus they are fluid; on Mercury aerial; while in the Sun they are fashioned of pure fire.”

“And this is the true and final secret of Freemasonry; this Sun, is it not the Great Architect of the Universe, the Father of the System, the Eidolon of the Macrocosm? And this Phallus, is it not the Great Architect of this other Universe of Man, the Father of the Race, the Eidolon of the Microcosm?”

Read the Journal of Discourses 13:271

“So it is with the inhabitants of the sun… Do you think there is any life there? No question of it.”

And in 272 Brigham Young speaks of the annihilation of the ego in the abyss:

“But the most simple thing in the world is to understand is the work of the Lord. What shall we do? Divest ourselves of great , big “Mr. I.””

Volume 13 | Journal of Discourses

#4 mrmarklin

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Posted 29 November 2009 - 09:46 AM

Thanks for quoting out of context, pastor bob. I'm not sure what your point is, but no one knows the location of Kolob, it has not been revealed AFAIK. BY was offering his opinions as to inhabitants of various locations illustrating the God created them all, and in general trying to show how the world lives in ignorance of many things that are of heaven, demanding proof. He is attempting to tell church members to rid themselves of similar ignorance. It has been postulated by various general authorities that the sun is Kolob, but that is certainly not church doctrine.

#5 livy111us

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Posted 29 November 2009 - 01:27 PM

The book of Abraham came out before Joseph Smith was a mason, and only very few modern prophets were freemasons.

Kolob in the Semitic language means- center, middle, or heart. This makes sense,
because if was a governing star it would be in the middle. Also if you look at the galaxy, there is
a center in which every sun, and planet revolves around. In the same chapter of Abraham, in the
thirteenth verse, it gives more names. "Shinehah, which is sun...Kokob, which is star...Olea,
which is the moon...Kokaubeam, which signifies stars..." For years, people have criticized these
words saying they are created by Joseph Smiths imagination. But now that we have a greater
knowledge of languages, they make perfect sense. Kokob is Hebrew for star. Kokaubeam is
Hebrew for stars. Olea in Hebrew is moon. And Shinehah is Egyptian, Sheni=encircle,
Nehah=sun. This proves the inspiration in the translation of the book of Abraham. Egyptian was
a coded language for many decades after the translation of this book, yet Joseph Smith was able
to give the correct translation of Egyptian and Hebrew words.[paraphrased from Matthew Browns All
Things Restored
]


Kolob - FAIRMormon




#6 beefche

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Posted 29 November 2009 - 03:18 PM

I am not theorizing on this, you must keep in mind that Joseph Smith (and all the other prophets) were a Freemason, and that he was teaching the goal of making it to the Celestial Kingdom.



So, your point? If we believe that the Celestial Kingdom is "heaven" as other churches call it, then shouldn't we be preaching and teaching to "make it" to the CK?

What is your point to this discussion, Pastor Bob?
I say that we need to teach our people to find their answers in the scriptures...But the unfortunate thing is that so many of us are not reading the scriptures. We do not know what is in them, and therefore we speculate about things that we ought to have found in the scriptures themselves. I think that therein is one of our biggest dangers of today."
--President Harold B. Lee, December, 1972

#7 Maxgreen1

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Posted 30 November 2009 - 03:43 AM

I speak Arabic. Kokob (In some forms, Kokobim) is the Arabic word for planet (plural). This is easily confirmed on any online translator. Kolob is believed by some to be the center of the Universe. Kolob has the Arabic root letters KLB, and roughly pronounced Kolob (With a Kaf, a hard K). In Arabic, the KLB is the heart and the source of life in the body. Perhaps Kolob is the heart, and the source of life in the Universe. The Arabic perspective -Max

#8 mrmarklin

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 10:17 AM

So, your point? If we believe that the Celestial Kingdom is "heaven" as other churches call it, then shouldn't we be preaching and teaching to "make it" to the CK?

What is your point to this discussion, Pastor Bob?



I think pastorbob is doing a little Trolling.:huh:

#9 rayhale

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 09:02 PM

This is the more complete text where PastorBob quoted from (The bold is mine):
Journal of Discourses 13 page 271 (last paragraph)

We are called ignorant; so we are: but what of it? Are not all ignorant? I rather think so. Who can tell us of the inhabitants of this little planet that shines of an evening, called the moon? When we view its face we may see what is termed "the man in the moon," and what some philosophers declare are the shadows of mountains. But these sayings are very vague, and amount to nothing; and when you inquire about the inhabitants of that sphere you find that the most learned are as ignorant in regard to them as the most ignorant of their fellows. So it is with regard to the inhabitants of the sun. Do you think it is inhabited? I rather think it is. Do you think there is any life there? No question of it; it was not made in vain. It was made to give light to those who dwell upon it, and to other planets; and so will this earth when it is celestialized. Every planet in its first rude, organic state receives not the glory of God upon it, but is opaque; but when celestialized, every planet that God brings into existence is a body of light, but not till then. Christ is the light of this planet.

What was science like back then? How about medical technology? Transportation? Astrometry? Well in 1870, when Brigham Young wrote this, all these fields were, in modern terms, prehistoric, at best. No one, including the Prophet, knew much about astrometry. In the more complete quote that I provided, you can see that Brigham Young speculated that the moon, and the sun were inhabited. It seems obvious that he, and other early Church leaders couldn’t conceive of billions or trillions of years. Who can say whether or not the moon, or the sun didn’t have inhabitants billions years in the past? Or, who can say they won’t in billions or trillions of years in the future?

#10 Yekcidmij

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Posted 15 December 2009 - 09:40 AM

Kolob - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"saw the stars, that they were very great, and that one of them was nearest unto the throne of God;....and the name of the great one is Kolob, because it is near unto me, for I am the Lord thy God: I have set this one to govern all those which belong to the same order as that upon which thou standest." -Pearl of Great Price

Kolob is modernized Hebrew for Mercury, alt. spelling is Kokob in older texts.


I seriously doubt Joseph was talking about the planet Mercury. You also assume that Joseph would be familiar with modern Hebrew (which isn't the same as archaic or standard Hebrew) as well as assuming that the Book of Abraham was written in modern Hebrew. Neither of those is the case.

Kolob in the Semitic language means- center, middle, or heart.

Kokob is Hebrew for star.


I think KVKV (Kokav) is the Hebrew for star.

Kokaubeam is Hebrew for stars.


KVKVYM (Kokavim)

Olea in Hebrew is moon.


YRH (Yahrayah)

Nehah=sun.


In Hebrew?

This proves the inspiration in the translation of the book of Abraham. Egyptian was a coded language for many decades after the translation of this book, yet Joseph Smith was able to give the correct translation of Egyptian and Hebrew words.


Did Joseph translate the BoA from Hebrew or Egyptian?

"The Book of Abraham. A translation from some Egyptian papyri that came into the hands of Joseph Smith in 1835, containing writings of the patriarch Abraham. The translation was published serially in the Times and Seasons beginning March 1, 1842, at Nauvoo, Illinois. See History of the Church, vol. 4, pp. 519-534." (scriptures.lds.org)

It seems you may be conflating the two.

#11 Vanhin

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Posted 15 December 2009 - 09:50 AM

Thekabalist had this to say about the star Kolob, when he came across it in our scriptures.

I saw that in one of your books there is a star called Kolob right? This is what I read: "and the name of the great one is Kolob, because it is near unto me, for I am the Lord thy God".

The term "Kolob" would be written as follows: קלב
It is quite interesting because this would in ancient Hebrew mean quite literally "that which is in likeness of a heart" because the particle ק means "in likeness of" and the word "לב" means "heart".

Now in ancient Hebrew we also have a practice of letter permutation. Essentially it means the Hebrew letters can be permuted to find alternative meanings. What is amusing is that one of the two other possible words with these letters would be קבל which means literally "to receive" and is used in connection with a deeper revelation from G-d. This is the basic root of the Hebrew word "Kabbalah" for instance.

The other two take us back to Nm. 23:1 where the Bible makes a pun with the words לקב (to curse) and בלק (Balak) which is understood as meaning that G-d inverted the curse that was upon the sons of Israel.

When we look at the ancient knowledge of gematria which is to look at the numeric value of the words there's also something pretty cool: the number 132 is the numeric value we have.

This is also the number of the expression יהוה אלהים which is usually translated as "Lord G-d" but I have already explained previously to mean "He who is the lifegiver of the Powerful ones". So the name Kolob bears the same value and essence as the name "Lord G-d".

I'll leave the interpretation up to you!

שלום
shalom


He also added this correction to what he wrote:

I would just like to make one correction to the above. The actual spelling to mean "in the likeness of a heart" would be כלב and not קלב as I originally wrote. Because the letters ק and כ can have the same sound in Hebrew. However to get קלב to mean "in the likeness of a heart" I would have to be more interpretative when it's totally unnecessary as כלב would quite well fit the proposed meaning. Sorry about this typo.


Regards,
Vanhin

#12 volgadon

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 10:16 AM

Pastrobob, I am a native Israeli.
Kolob has never been Hebrew for Mercury, neither has kokob in and of itself, which means star or planet.
In modern Hebrew, Mercury is Hama (with a chet not hey).
The nsimplest explanation of kolob's etymology is that Joseph Smith heard the r as an l and the word is actually korob, that is, NEAR.
And for an interesting ancient parallel with Abraham 3, check out my blog post.
Calba Savua's Orchard: And We All Shine On

#13 Prodigal_Son

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 12:50 PM

I have absolutely no idea what are the motives of PastorBob in starting this thread (though I sense some hostility towards him in the responses), but the Wikipedia text isn't too bad - excepting, of course, the aged and anemic arguments against Mormonism and Joseph Smith in the "Analysis and criticism of the Kolob doctrine" section.

I have quotes from Brigham, Orson Hyde, Joseph Fielding, and Brother Joseph that indicate much of what was detailed on that page.

But, where were you really going with this, PastorBob?

#14 KerryShirts

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Posted 07 February 2010 - 12:56 PM

Pastrobob, I am a native Israeli.
Kolob has never been Hebrew for Mercury, neither has kokob in and of itself, which means star or planet.
In modern Hebrew, Mercury is Hama (with a chet not hey).
The nsimplest explanation of kolob's etymology is that Joseph Smith heard the r as an l and the word is actually korob, that is, NEAR.
And for an interesting ancient parallel with Abraham 3, check out my blog post.
Calba Savua's Orchard: And We All Shine On


Volgadon is precisely correct. From Michael D. Rhodes, we read

Joseph Smith says that this is "Kolob, signifying the first creation, nearest to the celestial, or the residence of God." To the ancient Egyptians, this was symbolic of God, endowed with the primeval creative force, seated at the center of the universe. The name Kolob is right at home in this context. The word most likely derives from the common Semitic root *QLB, which has the basic meaning of "heart, center, middle." In fact the Arabic form of this word, qalb, forms part of the Arabic names of several of the brightest stars in the sky including Antares, Regulus, and Canopus.

It is more than of passing interest that John Tvedtnes, Brian Hauglid, and John Gee in their magnificent text "Traditions About the Early Life of Abraham," FARMS, 2001: Appendix B show that the Sufi philosophers compared the heart (Arabic qalb) with the throne of God, while Abr 3:9 is said to be set nigh unto the throne of God......

#15 Blackmarch

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Posted 31 March 2010 - 08:44 AM

Kolob - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"saw the stars, that they were very great, and that one of them was nearest unto the throne of God;....and the name of the great one is Kolob, because it is near unto me, for I am the Lord thy God: I have set this one to govern all those which belong to the same order as that upon which thou standest." -Pearl of Great Price

Kolob is modernized Hebrew for Mercury, alt. spelling is Kokob in older texts.

ok Great.

If Kolob is an actuall star.. I"m fine with that. It doesn't change my standing with God.
If Kolob is symbolic. I"m fine with that too.
If it's both literal and symbolic, cool.



Now if Kolob = Mercury... Thats the first time i've heard that.
What would it imply if Mercury was close to God?

Whatever that could mean, I doubt I'd have to change anything in my belief of God and Christ.

#16 deseretgov

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 03:43 PM

I found a website that has encoded part of the Kirtland Egyptian Papers. It contains TONS of more things about Kolob and related stuff.

MORMON ORIGINS - JOSEPH SMITH - EARLY LDS HISTORICAL DOCUMENTS - MORMONISM

Here's a quote from the website:

Jah-oh-eh The earth under the governing power of oliblish, Enish go on dosh, and Kai e van rash, which are grand Key or in other words, the governing power, which governs the fifteen fixed stars (twelve [unclear words]) that belong governs the earth, sun & moon, (which have their power in one) with the other twelve moving planets of this system. Oliblish - Enish go on dosh, and Kaii ven rash, are the three grand central powers that govern all the other creations, which have been sought out by the most aged of all the fathers, since the beginning of the creation, by means of the Urim and Thummim: The names of the other twelve of the fixed stars are: Kolob, Limdi, Zip, Vusel, Venisti, Waine, Wayoh=ox=oan, oansli, Shible, Shineflis, flis, os. The Egyptian names of the fifteen moving planest are: Oanisis, Flosisis, floese: Abbesels, Eleash, Subble, Slundlo, Carroam, Crashmakraw, obblesisim, Izinsbah, missel [p.24] Nahmesile, Oheeoopzah, Zool
Flo-ees The moon, the earth and the sun in their annual revolutions
Flos isis The highest degree of light, because its component parts are light. The governing principle of light Because God has said Let this be the centre for light, and let there be bounds that it may not pass. He hath set a cloud round about in the heavens, and the light of the grand governing of 15 fixed stars centre there - and from there its is drawn by the heavenly bodies according to their portions; according to the decrees that God hath set, as the bounds of the ocean, that it should not pass over as a flood, so God has set the bounds of light lest it pass over and consume the planets.
Kli flosisis signifies Kolob in its motion, which is swifter than the rest of the twelve fixed stars; going before, being first in motion, being delegated to have power over others to regulate others in their time, for example, one cubit of times signifies three days Therefore that which is appointed to run three days, runs one cubit according to the measure of time in cubits a cubit of motion is increased or lessened according to the sign of the degrees

#17 amerikanina

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 11:43 PM

BY must have said his own opinion about people living in the sun, not a revelation. Remembr that even Moses to whom the whole creation was sawn did not receive the permission to know about the other inhabitant of the other planets but only about the people of this earth. Nice discussion and good topic Pastor Bob!




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