Politicization of the Church

[Moksha]

After this episode of Harry Reid being slated to be part of the Mormons Testify fireside, then being canceled due to members threatening violence in the Chapel and even threatening to punch Senator Reid if they saw him in the Temple, I am thinking it is a good time to draw back and look at how politicized the Church has become due to members bringing partisan politics into the Church.

Violence in the Chapel! Assault in the Temple! These do not seem the kinds of things Church members should be threatening, yet they go hand in hand with the the political polarization that has been allowed to go unchecked. Even now on the internet, some members are so highly politicized that they out and out say that one must subscribe to a particular political party to be not just a good Mormon, but any kind of Mormon.

Despite this attitude, the Church still has one of its mission goals to proclaim the Gospel to the world. This will fall flat on its face if the Church allows itself to be tied to any particular partisan political agenda. As many of you have noted on this forum, the political passions of some Mormons in the USA, does not hold sway with the ways of members living in other parts of the world. For instance, those living in countries with health care for all, benefit from that care. Those members outside America can best remain members if they are also able to enjoy the fruits of their society and remain free to follow religious principles rather than political dictates.

Human decency and respect also suggest that members should refrain from threats of violence and assaults, as well as carrying out those actions.

God should remain foremost in the Church and Caesar and Mammon should be kept at bay. Time to depoliticize the Church.

Edited April 4, 2010 by Moksha
hindsight in proofreading

[marts1]

It's yet another thing that should be handled in moderation.

[Just_A_Guy]

Moksha, your points are valid. Why, even on this very forum, less than an hour and a half before your original post to this thread, a certain poster slyly hinted that Mormons who didn't share his political views were Nazis.

Something has, indeed, gone very wrong.

[john doe]

Hmmm, I wonder how that happened. Maybe it was an accidental comparison?

[NeuroTypical]

I am thinking it is a good time to draw back and look at how politicized the Church has become due to members bringing partisan politics into the Church.

...

the Church still has one of its mission goals to proclaim the Gospel to the world. This will fall flat on its face if the Church allows itself to be tied to any particular partisan political agenda.

...

Time to depoliticize the Church.

All excellent points, and all wonderful reasons to never, ever, ever invite Harry Ried to speak at any sort of church sponsored activity, ever again. Ever.

LM

(Same for Mitt Romney)

Edited April 4, 2010 by Loudmouth_Mormon

[dazed-and-confused]

great post, moksha, but why am i suddenly remembering all that i've learned about the downfall of the Catholic church?

[Dravin]

Hmmm, I wonder how that happened. Maybe it was an accidental comparison?

As I am sure are the numerous comments implying that if one doesn't support a particular government initiative they aren't very Christian. Maybe he's just a accident prone penguin?

Edited April 4, 2010 by Dravin

[dazed-and-confused]

passion is a powerful force, whether it be for a woman's (or man's) love, or a political ajenda, or an approach to HF, as diverse as they may be, passion is a great spiritual tool, or our own downfall.

[Guest mysticmorini]

just two weeks ago in EQ a guy actually prayed that "brother reid" would come to his senses.

[Moksha]

I realize that many of you are of a conservative orientation, yet can you not see that threats of violence in the Chapel and of assault in the Temple are of a despicable nature? Animosity toward any political figure who is Mormon because they do not subscribe to certain political ideas you hold, still should preclude that animosity from erupting at Church. Even if these Church terrorists are expressing your own private views, let's keep the Church as an environment where we can all worship together.

We can jostle with each other outside of Church, but inside we are still Brothers and Sisters.

[GADBabaganoosh]

You know whats funny? Back in the early days of Utah, I read about either wilford woodruff or john taylor taking political sides and actually getting angry over it in an interview, he was, i beleive a hardcore democrat (back then democrats were different). I beleive he slammed his fist down on his desk, but apologized and said the church doesn't take sides even though he leaned towards one party.

I think its quite absurd that people would threaten Harry Reid. He's just being a politician like Mitt Romney was being a politician. We are united as saints. Lets keep it that way. Theres more to the Church's political neutrality than we think.

[Dravin]

I realize that many of you are of a conservative orientation, yet can you not see that threats of violence in the Chapel and of assault in the Temple are of a despicable nature?

Would you kindly point out who here has maintained otherwise? Or are you just randomly ascribing positions so you can claim some sort of moral high ground against strawmen?

[Wingnut]

We can jostle with each other outside of Church, but inside we are still Brothers and Sisters.

Outside we're all still brothers and sisters.

[john doe]

I agree with the insistence that we not threaten others with violence in the chapel, and especially in the temple. When I am there, I believe all are our brothers and sisters. But when my brother or sister actively works to destroy the country whether they acknowledge that or not, I reserve the right to peacefully work against that agenda outside the walls of the church.

The church encourages us to carefully study the ideas and agendas or our politicians and communities and countries and become actively involved in them. They counsel us to work in politics for agendas and candidates which we feel are most in line with our beliefs as we see them in a righteous manner. The church rarely endorses a particular agenda other than ones it deems as moral issues, and I have never heard of it endorsing any party or politician.

[rameumptom]

We can jostle with each other outside of Church, but inside we are still Brothers and Sisters.

Sorry, I do not consider myself related to penguins. They are aviary (and not very good at flying), while I'm conservative.

I do agree that we should not restrict free speech. Especially in the Church. Of course, I would expect Brother Reid to share his testimony of the gospel, and not give a stump speech, in his Church testimony meeting. But others should silently not attend, perhaps quietly disagree with church leaders' choices. Threats of violence are always wrong. Of course, stating that conservative members of the Church sieg-heil with their CTR rings is also completely wrong, as well. Moksha, you lose credibility with your audience, because so many of your statements are so far off base, when you do make a reasonable statement, we wonder what's the catch. In this case, your assumption that we conservative Mormons on LDS.Net were potentially the ones threatening Reid, or at least applauding those who pushed violence. We don't.

Edited April 5, 2010 by rameumptom

[talisyn]

I agree with the insistence that we not threaten others with violence in the chapel, and especially in the temple. When I am there, I believe all are our brothers and sisters. But when my brother or sister actively works to destroy the country whether they acknowledge that or not, I reserve the right to peacefully work against that agenda outside the walls of the church.

The church encourages us to carefully study the ideas and agendas or our politicians and communities and countries and become actively involved in them. They counsel us to work in politics for agendas and candidates which we feel are most in line with our beliefs as we see them in a righteous manner. The church rarely endorses a particular agenda other than ones it deems as moral issues, and I have never heard of it endorsing any party or politician.

This is exactly how I feel. I'm glad we agree

One thing I have noticed though, and I think Moksha was trying to point out, is that it's usually only the lefties who are talking about how we all love our country and want the best for it. Very few times have I heard anyone on the Right admit someone can be a Left-wing Mormon and a good American. I appreciate the ones that acknowledge that, it gives me hope.

Edited April 5, 2010 by talisyn

[dorave]

Had the Stake President not invited Reid to speak, there would be no problem.

[Moksha]

From the Salt Lake Tribune: LDS: Embrace all - Salt Lake Tribune

Likewise, fully converted Christians would never speak harshly of their personal or ideological opponents, said Apostle Quentin L. Cook, who then reiterated the importance of being "civil in our discourse and respectful in our interactions, especially when we disagree."

Many in this world are "afraid and angry with one another," he said, and some feel that venting that anger or deeply held opinions "is more important than conducting themselves as Jesus Christ lived and taught."

Indeed, "how we disagree is a real measure of who we are," Cook said. "Violence and vandalism are not the answer to our disagreements."

[Palerider]

From the Salt Lake Tribune: LDS: Embrace all - Salt Lake Tribune

those big mean republicans

[dorave]

People have been disobedient to the teahings of Christ since Cain killed Abel.

But mixing govt and religion these days is never going to be a good thing. So again, had the Stake President not invited Reid (or any other politician to speak), there would've been no problem.

[Finrock]

Good evening Moksha. I hope you've been doing well. :)

After this episode of Harry Reid being slated to be part of the Mormons Testify fireside, then being canceled due to members threatening violence in the Chapel and even threatening to punch Senator Reid if they saw him in the Temple, I am thinking it is a good time to draw back and look at how politicized the Church has become due to members bringing partisan politics into the Church.

Violence in the Chapel! Assault in the Temple! These do not seem the kinds of things Church members should be threatening, yet they go hand in hand with the the political polarization that has been allowed to go unchecked. Even now on the internet, some members are so highly politicized that they out and out say that one must subscribe to a particular political party to be not just a good Mormon, but any kind of Mormon.

Despite this attitude, the Church still has one of its mission goals to proclaim the Gospel to the world. This will fall flat on its face if the Church allows itself to be tied to any particular partisan political agenda. As many of you have noted on this forum, the political passions of some Mormons in the USA, does not hold sway with the ways of members living in other parts of the world. For instance, those living in countries with health care for all, benefit from that care. Those members outside America can best remain members if they are also able to enjoy the fruits of their society and remain free to follow religious principles rather than political dictates.

Human decency and respect also suggest that members should refrain from threats of violence and assaults, as well as carrying out those actions.

God should remain foremost in the Church and Caesar and Mammon should be kept at bay. Time to depoliticize the Church.

Can you provide any link to what you are posting about as far as threats against Reid from members, etc. I'm interested in reading the accounts. I would be grateful!

Also, I'm unsure why there is a call to depoliticize the Church when it is church members who are being political. Surely you aren't suggesting that members shouldn't be political?

Regards,

Finrock

[Wingnut]

Can you provide any link to what you are posting about as far as threats against Reid from members, etc. I'm interested in reading the accounts. I would be grateful!

http://www.lds.net/forums/current-events/31288-harry-reid-fireside-canceled-because-politics.html

[dorave]

http://www.lds.net/forums/current-events/31288-harry-reid-fireside-canceled-because-politics.html

So no real quotes of threats made by specific people?

[talisyn]

Wouldn't the people get investigated by police if their names were known for threatening a U.S. Senator?

I'd be anonymous too

[dorave]

Wouldn't the people get investigated by police if their names were known for threatening a U.S. Senator?

I'd be anonymous too

Right, so "apparently" threats were made. Eventhough nobody knows for sure, 'if' or 'who' said anything we just know 'what' was said, riiiight.

I smell a smear campaign.