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Politicization of the Church


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#41 Moksha

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Posted 07 April 2010 - 03:04 PM

The problem, Moksha, is not that you're trying to make a point, but that YOU'RE the one trying make the point.


As Rabbi Hillel has said, "If not me then who?".

Someone needs to stand up to threats of violence in the Chapel and assault in the Temple, whether they are made in the name of conservative politics or not. Did anyone else voice this concern? As a matter of fact if you look what has been written, there are a number of people who also share this concern. Sometimes I may be bolder than others and take the lead. Sometimes I follow. The important point here is standing up for the integrity of religion so it is not tainted by hatred and violent actions or usurped by political ideology.

Trying to shoot the messenger sounds like the ploy of an apologist, but you should ask yourself if this particular issue is one which you want to defend. The safety of members and and the sanctity of the institution should be considered well beyond sticking barbs into Moksha.
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And here is the second: 'Love others as well as you love yourself.'
There is no other commandment that ranks with these."


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#42 john doe

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Posted 07 April 2010 - 03:36 PM

And yet, when people bring up Glenn Beck or Rush Limbaugh, what kind of reaction do you resort to, no matter what the message that Beck or Limbaugh deliver? I daresay you probably have no real idea what Beck says, only that you can't stand it. You stopped listening long ago. Proof of that can be found in the fact that you keep bringing up the same things, time after time, they get answered, and then a week later you bring up the exact same argument that was previously answered. Pot, meet Kettle. Kettle, Pot.
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#43 Moksha

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Posted 07 April 2010 - 03:57 PM

And yet, when people bring up Glenn Beck or Rush Limbaugh, what kind of reaction do you resort to, no matter what the message that Beck or Limbaugh deliver? I daresay you probably have no real idea what Beck says, only that you can't stand it. You stopped listening long ago. Proof of that can be found in the fact that you keep bringing up the same things, time after time, they get answered, and then a week later you bring up the exact same argument that was previously answered. Pot, meet Kettle. Kettle, Pot.


This really has nothing to do with the subject of this thread and that is bringing politics into the Church to the detriment of a House of God.

As for Beck and Limbaugh, there will always be those of us in the loyal opposition.

BTW, nice to meet you Mr. Pot. What's that you say? I have a few darkened smudges on me?
Jesus said, "The first in importance is, love the Lord God.'
And here is the second: 'Love others as well as you love yourself.'
There is no other commandment that ranks with these."


Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace


#44 Guest_Goose_*

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Posted 07 April 2010 - 10:10 PM

being canceled due to members threatening violence in the Chapel and even threatening to punch Senator Reid if they saw him in the Temple,


Punch a senator inside the Temple??

If their methods prove anything, it's that THEY are actually on the wrong side of these issues since their beliefs and ideals motivates them towards personal violence.

#45 Guest_Goose_*

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Posted 07 April 2010 - 10:22 PM

just two weeks ago in EQ a guy actually prayed that "brother reid" would come to his senses.


Well maybe the horse has bolted many many years ago. We always prayed for the president of the day -until Kennedy came along. Somehow people knew that elder benson was against him and didn't like him so there was no more praying for the president anymore.

Then we continued when Kennedy, and his replacement, were gone. However I've never being able to understand why we prayed for Nixon!

So although we say that the church is neutral and non-political fact is that politics has always been a part of the survival plans of the church since Joseph Smith petitioned some governor and was turned down. That was the first political lesson the church learned.

And praying about Reid to come to his senses? well, I've also prayed for various teams over the years and to win my ward basketball games....and so on, so I wouldn't worry too much. Those prayers don't pass the ceiling in my humble opinion.

#46 Guest_Goose_*

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Posted 07 April 2010 - 10:25 PM

read about either wilford woodruff or john taylor taking political sides and actually getting angry over it..he was, i beleive a hardcore democrat (back then democrats were different).



No, no, no, no, no, no..............back then the church was different! :rolleyes:

#47 talisyn

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 09:31 AM

I can't think of any president who was more in need of prayers than Nixon :P

I agree with you, Goose, about the LDS church and politics. The LDS church has tried to protect it's interests using the political systems of the times, with varying degree of success. I'm thinking one of the reasons church members have traditionally been against Dems is that the Dems of the 1800s were so anti-mormon, even so far as to take away voting rights of the Saints in Idaho. By the time the Dems figured out they could get more power with Mormon votes the damage was done.

That being said, I'm sure all Saints vote according to who they think will do a better job. For some, it's politicians with an enviromentalism bent. For others it's those politicians who are nicer to businesses. Both sides have merit. It's up to us to keep such matters out of the church buildings and temples and restrict it to forums such as this, where we can state our views amongst friends and not be condemned. Heaven knows I don't always agree with, say, Bytor, about all things political. But I would never dream of judging him as less a Saint than me. For all I know, given my flaws, he is probably a much better one :P

#48 Just_A_Guy

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 10:01 AM

This really has nothing to do with the subject of this thread and that is bringing politics into the Church to the detriment of a House of God.


Tell me again why Senator Reid of Nevada planned on addressing constituents in a Mormon church in Nevada during an election year?

And tell me again how someone could know that a stake president's private in-box contains threats of violence when the stake president himself has given no such indication?

Edited by Just_A_Guy, 08 April 2010 - 10:04 AM.

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#49 talisyn

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 10:14 AM

Because he lives there? It would make a lot more sense than if he were invited to speak at, say, a stake center in Burley, Idaho :D

#50 john doe

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 10:17 AM

This really has nothing to do with the subject of this thread and that is bringing politics into the Church to the detriment of a House of God.

As for Beck and Limbaugh, there will always be those of us in the loyal opposition.

BTW, nice to meet you Mr. Pot. What's that you say? I have a few darkened smudges on me?



I give up, Mocks. You either can't, or won't, acknowledge an opposing view as even approaching validity when it comes to these subjects. I'm done with you here.
Pressure: It can turn a lump of coal into a flawless diamond, or an average person into a perfect basketcase.
-from despair.com


Except for ending slavery, fascism, nazism, & communism, WAR HAS NEVER SOLVED ANYTHING!
From protestwarrior.com

#51 SLC2002GOLD

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 10:23 AM

After this episode of Harry Reid being slated to be part of the Mormons Testify fireside, then being canceled due to members threatening violence in the Chapel and even threatening to punch Senator Reid if they saw him in the Temple, I am thinking it is a good time to draw back and look at how politicized the Church has become due to members bringing partisan politics into the Church.

Violence in the Chapel! Assault in the Temple! These do not seem the kinds of things Church members should be threatening, yet they go hand in hand with the the political polarization that has been allowed to go unchecked. Even now on the internet, some members are so highly politicized that they out and out say that one must subscribe to a particular political party to be not just a good Mormon, but any kind of Mormon.

Despite this attitude, the Church still has one of its mission goals to proclaim the Gospel to the world. This will fall flat on its face if the Church allows itself to be tied to any particular partisan political agenda. As many of you have noted on this forum, the political passions of some Mormons in the USA, does not hold sway with the ways of members living in other parts of the world. For instance, those living in countries with health care for all, benefit from that care. Those members outside America can best remain members if they are also able to enjoy the fruits of their society and remain free to follow religious principles rather than political dictates.

Human decency and respect also suggest that members should refrain from threats of violence and assaults, as well as carrying out those actions.

God should remain foremost in the Church and Caesar and Mammon should be kept at bay. Time to depoliticize the Church.



Please post a link to these so-called threats of violence?????

#52 Just_A_Guy

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 10:27 AM

Because he lives there? It would make a lot more sense than if he were invited to speak at, say, a stake center in Burley, Idaho :D


Really? Senator Reid's Church records reside in the Tule Springs, Nevada stake?

About half the practice of a decent lawyer consists in telling would-be clients that they are darned fools and should stop.
 

--Senator Elihu Root


#53 talisyn

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 10:46 AM

Beats me, I'm not privy to his church records. but I'm pretty sure you have to be a Senator from the state you live in :P IDK, where does Sen. Reid and his family live? Is Searchlight in the Tule Springs stake? Pam, this is not an endorsement or condemnation of Sen. Reid's reelection campaign (ty for closing the other thread btw, it was getting silly :P ). It is a question of 'can you ask someone in another stake to speak at a fireside' sort of thing :D

Edited by talisyn, 08 April 2010 - 10:55 AM.


#54 pam

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 11:30 AM

Since this is another thread on Harry Reid who is officially a candidate, this thread is closed.




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