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Theodemocracy


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#1 bakerjohnj

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Posted 30 January 2011 - 10:38 AM

Greetings

Theodemocracy is a term coined by Joseph Smith that referred to his idea that the Kingdom of God is a democratic world. I also have come to the same conclusion and was wondering what modern Mormons thought of the idea.

Theodemocracy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Peace

John

#2 Guest_LDS_Guy_1986_*

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Posted 30 January 2011 - 01:20 PM

I know that we believe that a theodemocracy will be the government of the Millennial Reign of Christ. He will be King over the world and the world will be one theodemocracy. Some people dislike this idea, but it is important to know that a theodemocracy is not oppressive. We know that people will continue to worship as they wish, but over time we will all come to the knowledge that Jesus is the Christ and that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is his one true Church. This will be a process of choice just like it is now, but living in the presence of Jesus and being prosthelytized by angels and prophets of the modern and ancient times is a little more persuasive.

#3 Dravin

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Posted 30 January 2011 - 01:40 PM


This will be a process of choice just like it is now, but living in the presence of Jesus and being prosthelytized by angels and prophets of the modern and ancient times is a little more persuasive.


I always pictured the first General Conference held after Christ returns and reigns:

Presiding at this Conference will be the Lord Jesus Christ with President Monson conducting.
Hindsight is all well and good... until you trip.

#4 Justice

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Posted 30 January 2011 - 02:10 PM

Why wouldn't Joseph Smith conduct it? :)

#5 Dravin

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Posted 30 January 2011 - 02:19 PM

Why wouldn't Joseph Smith conduct it? :)


If you want to go that route why wouldn't Adam?
Hindsight is all well and good... until you trip.

#6 Wingnut

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Posted 30 January 2011 - 06:48 PM

Maybe if we were still in Adam's dispensation.
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#7 Dravin

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Posted 30 January 2011 - 06:54 PM

Maybe if we were still in Adam's dispensation.


As far as I know any (presumably worthy) Elder can conduct (DC 20:45), it doesn't have to be someone's dispensation for them to conduct (as evidence by all those who conducted General Conference who weren't Joseph Smith). Even though the tradition is that a member of the First Presidency does so.

It's possible some General Authority has voiced something about who will conduct the first General Conference after Christ returns but as far as I know it's a black hole of we don't know. I can see it just as easily being Joseph Smith as I could the 'standing' Prophet at the time. Adam normally wouldn't come to mind but also is a possibility.

Edited by Dravin, 31 January 2011 - 04:06 PM.

Hindsight is all well and good... until you trip.

#8 bakerjohnj

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 03:55 PM

Ok, this is interesting. What do you think comes first? The return of Jesus or a democratic world? Thank you all for your replies.

#9 bert10

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 04:27 PM

Why complicate the matter? in heaven as well as in Zion there is only the will of GOD. All those who chose to not do it...are choosing as the angels of old have done.

For who is not with GOD is against GOD it is that simple. Why is it this way?

Because at that Spiritual everyone should know, that the will of GOD is actually the greatest good for all. To choose any other way at that level is to choose Rebellion. Satan's motto is..."I will have my way" Only they who acquire the mind of Christ will be invited into the Celestial Kingdom (1 Cor 2:16)

Do not be deceived...the quickest and best way to happiness, joy, order is GOD's way. Only here on the earth we have some leeway in experiencing with the darkness. And God gave us repentance for everytime we stray outside of the will of GOd for each and everyone of us.

bert10


Greetings

Theodemocracy is a term coined by Joseph Smith that referred to his idea that the Kingdom of God is a democratic world. I also have come to the same conclusion and was wondering what modern Mormons thought of the idea.

Theodemocracy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Peace

John


Edited by bert10, 31 January 2011 - 04:29 PM.


#10 bakerjohnj

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 05:22 PM

Bert, thank you for your reply. Are you implying that democracy is not the will of God or good for the people as a whole? If so, could you please explain how that correlates with Joseph Smith's vision of theodemocracy. Peace

#11 bert10

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 08:16 PM

Democracy is the best system for fallible men. The Leaders if they wish to be Elected must promise many things and if they wish to be re-elected they must fulfill the desires of the common people.

Where a whole people err so will the leaders since they are there to fulfill the will the of the people.

But with GOD and Zion...It is not the majority that decides what is good and evil But GOD. Knowledge of GOD and wisdom Comes from above to the chosen leaders and makes its way down.

The sooner we begin to adopt this mindset the sooner we shall be ready for Zion. For even in the prayer of Jesus. GOD prayed that the WILL OF GOD BE DONE ON THE EARTH AS IT IS DONE IN HEAVEN. So it will be when Zion comes.

bert10






Bert, thank you for your reply. Are you implying that democracy is not the will of God or good for the people as a whole? If so, could you please explain how that correlates with Joseph Smith's vision of theodemocracy.

Peace



#12 bytor2112

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 08:23 PM

If you want to go that route why wouldn't Adam?


or maybe Brother Bytor? ;)
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Not pain, not failure, not fatal tragedy?
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#13 prophetofdoom

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 09:18 PM

My understanding of the build up of Zion on the Earth is this. There is democracy. The people will vote for judges over 10's, 50's, 100's etc. but those judges will have to be confirmed by the Chief Executive. Heaven is democratic in the sense that free agency is eternal. We, as saints, will have to understand the mind and will of God through the Holy Ghost to be able to choose wisely.

#14 HEthePrimate

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 10:52 AM

A false notion of Christianity has been used so often throughout history to oppress, that it's difficult today to conceive of a righteous "theodemocracy." But yes, true Christianity liberates, and I look forward to the day when it's widely practiced.

As René Girard said, "Christianity expands the range of freedom, which individuals and communities make use of as they please, sometimes in a good way but often in a bad way. A bad use of freedom contradicts, of course, what Jesus intends for humanity. But if God did not respect the freedom of human beings, if he imposed his will on them by force or even by his prestige, which would mean by mimetic contagion, then he would not be different from Satan" (I See Satan Fall Like Lightning. Maryknoll, NY: Orbis Books, ©2001.).
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#15 bert10

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 12:56 PM

Of laws, commandments and counsels.

..."for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem."

That is how it is going to work. And that is how it would have worked in J. Smith day had he succeeded in establishing zion.

Just as there is no voting today who are to be set over us...The vote that we have is to accept the will of GOD concerning our leaders or not. So will it be in Zion. There is no voting from below who are going to be set over us. The only vote we have is to assent or dissent when the time comes. If we are dissenters...then we will be asked why. Just like the Angels in heaven dissented from the plan of GOD and after a period of time...did not awakened nor came to their senses were deemed rebellious.

Who will sit at the right hand of Jesus? What did Jesus say...that we can vote on it ....or did He say that place is reserved to whomever the Father will designate.

Heaven works best when the right person is at the right place at the right time. God has that information, and His appointments are for the best of all.

bert10



My understanding of the build up of Zion on the Earth is this. There is democracy. The people will vote for judges over 10's, 50's, 100's etc. but those judges will have to be confirmed by the Chief Executive. Heaven is democratic in the sense that free agency is eternal. We, as saints, will have to understand the mind and will of God through the Holy Ghost to be able to choose wisely.



#16 mapman

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 02:56 PM

For more information on theodemocracy and the Council of the Fifty, I would suggest these sources:
The Council of Fifty - FAIRMormon
BYU Studies - The Council of Fifty and Its Members, 1844 to 1945
BYU Studies - “It Seems Like Heaven Began on Earth”: Joseph Smith and the Constitution of the Kingdom of God
Theodemocracy By Common Consent, a Mormon Blog
Utah Government Publications Online
BYU Master's Theses on Mormonism : Compound Object Viewer

#17 bakerjohnj

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 10:10 PM

Thank you all for your kind replies. What I don't understand is that if Joseph Smith believed that a democratic world is the Kingdom of God and at this moment in time that possibility exists, shouldn't we be aware of it? Peace

#18 bert10

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 07:24 PM

To rule by common consent which is UNITY OR ONENESS...can only happen when we hear the voice of GOD in our hearts. Our leaders are as always are called and chosen by GOD....according to the will of GOD. Personally I do not care on how the will of GOD will manifest itself amongst us...what is left after it is made known...is obedience or rebellion. I am sure there is good advice in the links above. However, the LDS at this time is even less able to establish Zion then they were in the days of J. Smith. After the Lord cleanses the church then we will be ready to hear and obey Him in all things. bert10

#19 apollyon

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 12:53 AM

In all honesty, I have a hard time believing that it will be democratic. Just out of morbid curiosity, when Joseph Smith said this, was he, in fact, speaking prophetically or was it just his opinion? Of course, I'm terribly pessimistic towards democracy, so that could just be clouding my judgement. Assuming that Joseph Smith said it as a prophet, I'll have to accept it.

Ok, this is interesting. What do you think comes first? The return of Jesus or a democratic world?


Return of Christ comes first, without a doubt. Again, assuming that it actually will be a democratic rule (which I won't believe until I see the quote), when the 2nd coming comes around, we all know that there will still be other churches, why not other governments? And based on the conditions at the end of the world, I'll guess that at least one of the world governments is something less than a democracy.

As far as the Adam/Joseph Smith conducting tangent this went off on, this shouldn't even be a question. We have plenty of quotes from general authorities that describe the role of those who have passed on once we enter the millennium, which is to stay in heaven and do missionary work there. They will come over momentarily to help out with the work, but they're not going to hang out here. Modern prophet will conduct, no question. I'll even go so far as to say that he'll preside. I've heard it said numerous times that Christ won't just be hanging out here on earth. He might come back for conference, who knows?

#20 bert10

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 02:38 PM

You are right on a lot of points. Those who have gone to the other side will mostly stay there unless they are sent on specific mission. All works of Salvation on the earth must be done by men of flesh and blood. Jesus could not do it from heaven...And so put on flesh to do the work....for this was decreed in heaven.

We will have a say in things while on the earth. But once the will of GOD is made manifest to us...there will be left only two things.... obedience or rebellion.

The Quorums work is not to decide who will be its president and councilors, but how to go about to manifest the will of GOD once we know it. We will not be working at cross purpose with each other nor will we be in each other way. For if we all hear GOD how can anything be done contrary to His will.

bert10




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