Why did we baptize Hitler

[mnn727]

I daresay the fact that the Church performed the ordinance would be evidence of their sanction.

Not if you know how names are submitted.

[MarginOfError]

With all due respect . . . as per LDS theology, no, they are not. We are cleansed by receiving the Holy Ghost, not by baptism (or even by the ordinance of confirmation).

The idea of baptism "washing our sins away" is very picturesque, and makes for charming primary songs. But it is also technically incorrect, from a theological standpoint.

And even so, without repentance, the Holy Ghost has no power to cleanse. So, the correct thing to say is that Hitler will be cleansed of his sins if he repents and accepts his baptism and confirmation, so long as Christ sees fit to forgive him of his sins.

Again, whether Christ will choose to do so is beyond my ability or authority to judge.

[mnn727]

it just annoys me personally because i've had family in the Holocaust and when someone is baptized even in death, they are cleansed of their sins. but nonetheless, i think that when he goes to be judged, they will know who he is and despite his baptism and being cleansed of his sins, there is no way he will be forgiven for what he did

So its impossible for Hitler to ever repent even if it takes billions of years? and Jesus has no power to help him?

Is that what you are trying to say?

I'm certainly no Hitler fan, but I also certainly don't know his mind or his heart, but I certainly believe there has to be something wrong with someone like that - heck even some of his closest Generals thought he was nuts and tried to assinate him.

I'm not able to judge Hitler, I have enough to do with judging my own life finding myself always coming up short, to worry about Hitler and others like him.

Edited February 7, 2011 by mnn727

[LDSChristian]

it just annoys me personally because i've had family in the Holocaust and when someone is baptized even in death, they are cleansed of their sins. but nonetheless, i think that when he goes to be judged, they will know who he is and despite his baptism and being cleansed of his sins, there is no way he will be forgiven for what he did

And the Bible teaches we're to forgive everyone for what the do.

[bert10]

It is written men shall be judged on their works. It is not written that men shall be condemned because they did not have their ordinances done.

Now Hitler will have the chance to reject those ordinances and also to reject repentance in Spirit prison....and if he does. Once the Lord calls a halt to the plan of Salvation there will be no place left for Anyone who does not repent to go except to the outer darkness mentioned by Jesus.

The final fate of Hitler will be determined on what he did by a just GOD. Everything is factored in and GOD does not miss a thing.

bert10

I saw this and was surprised. Is it because the church believes everyone deserves a second chance, even some of the worst people like Hitler?

[volgadon]

The really crazy thing... I can't say that I am any better than Hitler or that I will be in a better place than Hitler in the eternities. And that's even after my grandfather died in WWII. And I am 100% sure I can still say that even if I'm descended from a family annihilated personally by Hitler.

Because, I see 3 crosses on that hill - Jesus Christ being one of them, and to his side a criminal granted a place in the eternities.

And I've worn vengefulness before and it was like 80's fashion - it never did look good on me.

Who was speaking of vengefulness? He is welcome to his place in the Telestial kingdom. What I find distasteful about this thread is equaling the idea of forgiving all men with baptising them. I am of the opinion that given Hitler's acts and rhetoric (which are a pretty good indication of his thoughts) that if Christ deems any repentance by Hitler effective in overcoming his evil, then he will instruct the prophets to have the ordinances done. In other words, it is not something we should be concerning ourselves with.

[volgadon]

but I also certainly don't know his mind or his heart,

We can certainly make an educated guess based on what he did and wrote.

[Guest]

Who was speaking of vengefulness?

I was. I thought that was pretty clear in the post. That even if Hitler himself whacked my grandfather, I wouldn't feel any vengefulness for the dude and I would still be okay with performing his ordinances for him myself (ok, so I didn't say those words exactly, but that's how I feel).

He is welcome to his place in the Telestial kingdom. What I find distasteful about this thread is equaling the idea of forgiving all men with baptising them. I am of the opinion that given Hitler's acts and rhetoric (which are a pretty good indication of his thoughts) that if Christ deems any repentance by Hitler effective in overcoming his evil, then he will instruct the prophets to have the ordinances done. In other words, it is not something we should be concerning ourselves with.

But Christ did give the instruction. To perform the ordinances for EVERY SINGLE PERSON or some such. If Hitler was my grandfather I would for sure be very concerned with it.

[Guest]

We can certainly make an educated guess based on what he did and wrote.

And I would hope and pray that my children and children's children wouldn't withhold performing my ordinances based on their educated guesses.

[mnn727]

then he will instruct the prophets to have the ordinances done. In other words, it is not something we should be concerning ourselves with.

The Lord has already instructed both the Prophets and us to do the work for everyone.

The Lord has already instruucted us that He requires us to forgive everyone -- what more do you want?

[mnn727]

We can certainly make an educated guess based on what he did and wrote.

Thats the thing, no we can't. If he was mentally unbalanced which many people believe he was, then he may not be accountable for his actions.

The whole key here its up to God not us -- so leave judgement up to God and start doing what God has told us to do which is to forgive everyone and do Temple work.

[volgadon]

Mentally unbalanced or no, it was not to the stage where he couldn't answer for his actions. Are you trying to tell me he had no idea what he was doing?

[Guest]

Mentally unbalanced or no, it was not to the stage where he couldn't answer for his actions. Are you trying to tell me he had no idea what he was doing?

No, we're trying to tell you that we are not in the position to tell one way or the other according to the justice of God - not the justice of men.

[Dove]

The sad thing about Hitler's ordinances being done is how many Jewish people it has offended for having been done. I remember talking to one such person~She was quite angry and bitter about it and also all the temple work which we had done for the people who had so cruelly died in the holocaust. Unfortunately, if I heard this correctly, the church was forced to remove many of those names from record because of the outcry of the Jewish descendants over the work having been done for them. I just hope and pray that Hitler's work being done for him will not continue to cause such dissidence between us and the Jewish nation~

[Blackmarch]

it just annoys me personally because i've had family in the Holocaust and when someone is baptized even in death, they are cleansed of their sins. but nonetheless, i think that when he goes to be judged, they will know who he is and despite his baptism and being cleansed of his sins, there is no way he will be forgiven for what he did

they have to first accept christ and repent, before they can accept something like that in any meaningful way.

When the LDS do a baptism for the dead, it just means it's available to them if they are able to recieve it- tis better that the fault at preventing someone from God's plan not be at our feet.

Christ died for both the most rightious saint to the most horrible of sinners.

[Philby]

Want a different answer to the original question? I'll keep it short for now, but I could fill many pages to talk about it.

I think it ties in to the purpose of the Millennium and temple work. Everyone who reaches the age of accountability, regardless of who they were and what age of the world they lived in will be baptized and the temple work will be done for them - at least in proxy and before the final judgment after the end of the Millennial era. I see that as the central purpose for the Millennium. We'll have 150 billion people to temple work for, but I feel that the promise was made to all of us by the Lord before we were born - that the ordinances would be available, so no one could say that they didn't have a chance or were at some disadvantage because of circumstances. Certainly not everyone will accept the ordinances, but they'll be available. Hitler, Himmler, or whoever, no exceptions.

My $0.02