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Remarriage-Sealing cancellation


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#1 utahgua

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Posted 23 March 2011 - 12:59 PM

Hi everyone, there is so much that has been said about the topic but I want to ask specifically the following. I understand as a man who once got sealed to my ex wife in the temple and with whom I had children, I can be sealed to my next wife is that correct?. How does it work? seriously for what I have read it seems like I need to take some time and get authorization... I still do not understand, can some one clarify this to me? Second... what if new wife doesn't like the idea of "sharing" me after this life? can the man request a sealing cancellation? If so what is the procedure? (Consider that the new wife has been an active member for a few years now and holds a temple recommend). Note that the divorce was requested by my ex and there was no sexual transgression involved. She is not married yet and neither I am, but it is clear to me that she would not be interested in remaining sealed to me even if she does not re-marry. Also, who will be the right person to ask these questions after I get some advice here... bishop, stake presidency, temple patrons??

Edited by utahgua, 23 March 2011 - 01:02 PM.


#2 blackknight5k

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Posted 23 March 2011 - 01:13 PM

Speak to your Bishop, my Dad just went through this process and if I remember correctly it took quite a while. You can still be sealed to your first wife and be re-sealed to your second with first presidency approval - that's the process that took so long. Your current wife won't have to "share" you in the afterlife, my Dad's answer to a question similar to that is "the lord won't make the two of you get along if you couldn't in this life" - though you may want to speak to your Bishop to see if he gives you the same answer. As for a sealing "cancellation" - I think they call it a "temple Divorce" and they are rather difficult to get as both parties have to agree. My mother, who is now fallen very far from the church, told my father "there is no way I will ever give you a temple Divorce" so he won't ever be able to have one, but he was still able to be sealed to my step-mom and my half-sister. EDIT - and as for quite a while, I mean it took over a year.

#3 Maureen

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Posted 23 March 2011 - 01:55 PM

...As for a sealing "cancellation" - I think they call it a "temple Divorce" and they are rather difficult to get as both parties have to agree. My mother, who is now fallen very far from the church, told my father "there is no way I will ever give you a temple Divorce" so he won't ever be able to have one, but he was still able to be sealed to my step-mom and my half-sister....


Actually there is no such thing as a Temple divorce; the correct terms are sealing cancellation (the woman's request) and a sealing clearance (the man's request).

M.
I'd rather be a could-be if I cannot be an are; because a could-be is a maybe who - is reaching for a star. I'd rather be a has-been than a might-have-been, by far; for a might have-been has never been, but a has was once an are. - Milton Berle

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#4 blackknight5k

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Posted 23 March 2011 - 02:10 PM

Actually there is no such thing as a Temple divorce; the correct terms are sealing cancellation (the woman's request) and a sealing clearance (the man's request).

M.


I stand corrected

#5 MarginOfError

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Posted 23 March 2011 - 02:46 PM

Here's a small sample of threads where this has been discussed.

http://www.lds.net/f...er-divorce.html
http://www.lds.net/f...ncellation.html
http://www.lds.net/f...-remarried.html
http://www.lds.net/f...-clearance.html
http://www.lds.net/f...g-question.html
http://www.lds.net/f...-clearance.html
http://www.lds.net/f...ncellation.html
http://www.lds.net/f...ncellation.html

Dude. When both Vort and MOE are in agreement, the thinking has been done. :D


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#6 utahgua

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Posted 23 March 2011 - 04:02 PM

When can I start this process...? How long does it take for real? I thought I was going to be able to offer a temple marriage to the woman who will really love me... this is discouraging.

#7 Anonymouse

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Posted 23 March 2011 - 05:40 PM

I've read 3 months, but it may take longer. MarginOfError posted some good information... look at it. Start by talking to your bishop.

#8 Backroads

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 08:56 PM

My husband got his approval in 16 days from when the paperwork was placed in the mailbox. We were most impressed. Get started on all the paperwork and red tape, though.... that can take the longest, because you never know exactly what you need.

Where are we going and why are we in this handbasket?


#9 utahgua

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Posted 30 March 2011 - 10:24 AM

That's good news... yeah

#10 bebop21

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 01:58 PM

I went through this a few years ago. In our case, my husband's ex had remarried but not in the temple. He requested a cancellation because she wanted to eventually get sealed to her new husband. This was approved within about 3 months. She did not then have to request permission to be sealed other than getting a living ordinances recommend from her bishop for herself and new husband. The church offices do prioritize according to planned marriage dates, but I would be reasonable and give them at least a couple of months from the time they receive the paperwork and letters. Paperwork from both sides must be received for them to start. In other words, if both of you are requesting cancellations or clearances, the paperwork timing must be synchronized by stake presidents (after the bishop is done with his part) working together. Obviously, this isn't necessary if only one party is requesting cancellation/clearance. You must request letters from previous spouses and they must either directly refuse your bishop or not respond within a couple of weeks to his written request. If the ex can't be found, you will include that in your letter and paperwork when submitting your request to the first presidency. This part usually takes several weeks. Appointments are made with both bishops and stake presidents. Also, ex's are rarely compliant in this regard. Mine said he would send a letter, but didn't. My bishop contacted him again and he said he would send it again, but didn't. This made it drag out about 3 weeks before my bishop made a note of it and moved on. If you are refused the cancellation/clearance, you can reapply in a year. I have several friends who have gone through this process. One was denied and they were married civilly. A year later, they reapplied and the clearance was granted. Cancellations are not granted to men unless the ex-wife is agreeable and in a position to be sealed to someone else. As stated previously on this thread, the couple is not tied to each other in eternity if they couldn't get along here. Personally, I like to think of me and my ex as living on the same street in eternity as my daughter. None of us will be there anyway unless we can be nice:rolleyes: Most often, men are given clearances to be sealed to another and women are never given clearances, just cancellations. This leaves the ex-husband without a saving ordinance. Women are protected in this matter. Civil marriages are no longer performed in the temple unless BOTH old spouses are deceased. This policy changed in 2004. Personally, I see no point in having a marriage in the temple unless the ordinances are going along with it...seems kinda like a waste of a sealer's time. As far as children go, the first presidency will NOT undo that sealing unless the children are legally adopted by the new spouse and/or permission from the ex is given. My cancellation letter states, "Children born in the covenant or sealed to parents are assured the right and privilege of eternal parentage based upon their individual faithfulness and agency. If such children remain worthy, these birthright blessings remain secure in the event that the sealing of their parents as husband and wife is canceled. For each of us, the realization of eternal blessings is conditioned upon personal worthiness and individual agency. Such blessings, including our eternal family relationships, will be determined by our wise and loving Father after we have completed our mortal probation." Do not allow concerns over what will happen to the sealing to your children to sway a decision to remarry in the temple. Children will ALWAYS be blessed by your righteous choices and certainly, the decision to marry in the temple is a righteous decision.

Edited by bebop21, 02 July 2012 - 02:07 PM.
Clarification


#11 orbital

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 01:37 PM

My new fiancee and I came to the bishop excited to get married in the temple, but we were disappointed and humiliated by the process. I am divorced, but this would be the first time marriage for her. I was previously married to a woman who cheated on me and left the church, never even apologized, and left me emotionally and financially ruined. Fortunately we had no children (I don't know how people make it through such sadness, it was hard enough without children.) Yet years later I was still required to make every effort to contact the ex, including ordering background check information to find all her current contact information. The bishop then must get the ex to write a detailed letter explaining the circumstances of the divorce, whether there are unresolved issues, legal considerations, etc. Then you must also write a detailed letter stating every sin ever committed, a detailed explanation of the divorce, etc. Anyway, the ex purposefully held off responding, it takes a couple months of being held hostage. Apparently once it has been long enough without getting a response, and after a signed certified letter to confirm that the contact information was correct, he will then submit several pages of forms, and then it can take a couple months to get clearance from the first presidency (yes, the first presidency must decide whether you, already judged as a divorced failure in the eyes of the church, have any redeeming value that would allow you to return to being married in the temple). It is stunning to me that this LDS policy on re-marriage, which would have been draconian even by biblical standards, can further extend an abusive spouse's power beyond a divorce. Furthermore, it is entirely possible that they reject the request and you have to get married civilly then re-apply the next year. I hope they realize they are making severe judgments of people they don't know, decisions that permanently affect people's future families and eternal salvation based on their opinions of situations and events that they have never had to suffer through. God: "Why were you not married in the temple?" You: "Because my abusive ex-spouse left the church and wouldn't write a letter." God: "Why on earth would your ex have power to dictate whether you can get remarried?" You: "Your servants do it as punishment to people who suffer through divorce." God: "...?..."

Edited by orbital, 08 October 2013 - 10:15 PM.


#12 Jennarator

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 02:31 PM

Close friend of mine just got sealed. Her husband requested the cancelation for his ex, didn't get it. Just got the clearence. I think that ex really needs to request it for it to happen. Sure there are excpetions, but I have seen this more and more.

#13 McLainDow

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 02:33 PM

This must be very frustrating. If what your saying is true, your spouse is abusing you all over again by holing you hostage like that. It sounds like maybe your bishop following the letter of the law might be betraying the spirit of it.
“It was when I was happiest that I longed most...The sweetest thing in all my life has been the longing...to find the place where all the beauty came from.”
― C.S. Lewis, Till We Have Faces

#14 NeuroTypical

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 02:51 PM

we have been sorely disappointed and humiliated by the process.

I can understand the disappointment, but I'm missing how you were humiliated.

Anyway, the ex purposefully held off responding, it has been a couple months now of being held hostage by an abusive ex and uninspired church policies. Apparently once the bishop decides it has been long enough without getting a response, and once he has ordered a signed certified letter to confirm that the contact information was correct, he will then submit several pages of forms, and then it can take a couple months to get clearance from the first presidency

Wait - am I reading this correctly? It's not that you won't be able to be sealed to your fiancee, it's that you can't do it as soon as you wanna?

Again, I can understand the disappointment. But surely, it's possible to understand that the process is there to protect both parties? Sealings aren't frivolous agreements, easily cast aside, right?

It is stunning to me that in this day and age this LDS policy on re-marriage, which would have been draconian even by biblical standards

Ok, now you're just being silly. Draconian? You do know that word refers to a code of laws which prescribed death for almost everything, right? Whereas in your situation, you just can't go to the temple as quickly as you want?

I mean, I'm trying to take you and your frustration seriously here, but once you start tossing around inflammatory nonsense, it gets a lot harder. I'm not trying to dismiss your pain here, but come on. A death sentence is akin to being told no when you want a yes?
If I were rich, I'd have the time that I lack, to sit in the synagogue and pray.
And maybe have a seat by the Eastern wall.
And I'd discuss the holy books with the learned men, several hours every day.
That would be the sweetest thing of all.

Ohhh....
If I were a rich man...

#15 Jennarator

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 02:56 PM

If they are not honoring their covenants, the sealing doesn't hold in the next life anyways... If you are a celestral person, you would want your ex to have those blessings. And it will all get sorted out by God, sooner or later. Do those sound familiar? I kept hearing that, then I took them to heart. My husband's sealing has been cancelled because she asked for it. But It was years after we were married. When I took those "sayings" to heart, I learned to be ok with it. Then she requested the cancelation, and I actually felt sorry for her. don't worry about all of that. Know that the plan is HEavenly Fathers and he has pure joy and happiness for all of us. He won't force you to stay sealed to someone you don't want to be sealed to, in the next life. He won't he can cancel it later, but at the same time a sealing needs done on earth. Pray hard about it, it really did take a long time for me to understand all of this, and I am sure I have lots more to learn about it. Sustain the General Authorities. If they see fit to cancel a sealing they will.

#16 estradling75

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 03:09 PM

Orbital, I can hear your pain... and I feel that it is causing you to lash out at innocents who are just doing as the Lord instructed. Unlike the rest of the world LDS consider marriage serious and sacred. Especially temple sealings. Such Sealings are expected to be entered into with all due care and consideration, and are only broken when absolutely necessary. You made a poor choice when you chose to be Sealed and enter into the most Sacred and Holy ordinance that the LDS faith has with your EX. That poor choice and its consequences are totally on you (and your EX) not on the bishop or the Church. Since you already failed to exercise good judgment with your first Sealing are you at all surprised that the church is doing what ever it can to make sure you do it better this time? So take a deep breath and learn to be patient as you work through the consequence for your actions

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#17 bebop21

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 03:11 PM

My ex also refused to respond. The Bishop called and spoke with him and he said he would but then neglected to bother. The Bishop only waited a couple of weeks. When there was no response, we proceeded with the cancellation paperwork. You are not "held hostage" by an ex spouse, whether they chose to respond or even to lie about the relationship. Have faith. You are turning this paperwork directly over to a Prophet of G-d. By virtue of that calling, he should be able to discern truth from error. I am suspecting some other reason for the Bishop's hesitation to go forward with your cancellation (or clearance in the case of a male requesting to be sealed to another woman.)

Edited by bebop21, 08 October 2013 - 03:31 PM.
clarification


#18 orbital

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 03:14 PM

To answer your questions/insults:

1) It's humiliating because we told everyone we were getting married, only to find out we have to backtrack and try to explain that the church won't let us quite yet. Minor? Admittedly yes, but still embarrassing. It would have been nice in 30+ years of going to church to know that this was a policy. Hence, this posting may help others plan a little better.

2) She cheated on me, so she would have been stoned in biblical times as you say. Hence, the fact that I now have to ask her permission is, in fact, draconian and a double insult to the victim. Period. Did you just totally misunderstand?

3) Yes, I am hurt, so maybe I am venting a little and then I'll feel better, and I also hope that for anyone else out there suffering this, maybe church leaders will have a little more understanding of what people are going through and thus be better able to help rather than to further burden their pain.

4) For estadling75, I do not think any LDS person takes marriage lightly, but you cannot control your spouses behavior, your spouse can do awful things at any time, you can only be good yourself. To say that it was a bad decision to be married when I felt it was the right thing to do (and when it is pressed upon us at every singles ward meeting) is ignorant and insulting to the thousands of people who entered into marriage with all sincerity only to be broken by someone else's choices and behavior.



I can understand the disappointment, but I'm missing how you were humiliated.

Wait - am I reading this correctly? It's not that you won't be able to be sealed to your fiancee, it's that you can't do it as soon as you wanna?

Again, I can understand the disappointment. But surely, it's possible to understand that the process is there to protect both parties? Sealings aren't frivolous agreements, easily cast aside, right?

Ok, now you're just being silly. Draconian? You do know that word refers to a code of laws which prescribed death for almost everything, right? Whereas in your situation, you just can't go to the temple as quickly as you want?

I mean, I'm trying to take you and your frustration seriously here, but once you start tossing around inflammatory nonsense, it gets a lot harder. I'm not trying to dismiss your pain here, but come on. A death sentence is akin to being told no when you want a yes?


You made a poor choice when you chose to be Sealed and enter into the most Sacred and Holy ordinance that the LDS faith has with your EX. That poor choice and its consequences are totally on you (and your EX) not on the bishop or the Church.


Edited by orbital, 08 October 2013 - 03:31 PM.


#19 Jennarator

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 03:21 PM

My bishop recommened we do a civil wedding. Turns out it was good advice. My ex wrote lies and such and we are still waiting for the sealing. So glad we are at least married. I know this wil soon be taken care of and this time is nothing compared to the time that is eternal....

#20 Traveler

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 03:22 PM

It is possible that a loving temple marriage can fall apart because one of two partners has turned 180 degrees from someone that dearly loves them and has been 100% loyal and faithful to their covenants. But it is unlikely. I learned during my dating days that it is most unwise to turn sour against any lady that I had dated - even if I felt that they strongly deserve it. In marriage I have learned to buffer my criticism of my wife and to repent when ever I feel ill treated by her. I have found that any time she has treated me in a way that I interpret as less than idea it is always in conjunction with my not treating her as a chosen daughter of G-d. In all cases I have found that when I treat my wife with love and respect that she has returned my affections multi fold. Whenever I treat my beloved poorly it has come back to me multi fold. It seems to me that relationships are very much a reflection of ourselves. That Celestial relationships are likely the most difficult to obtain and the most fulfilling and rewarding. I would suggest that every effort is being extended to those with past difficulties to have a change of mind and heart - to repent and apply the principles of forgiveness and sacrifice. That those that struggle with forgiving an X and unwilling to ask an X for forgiveness dispute that there are transactions against them -- most likely they are not yet ready to be take upon them the covenants of a forgiving and compassionate saint. That they are not yet quit ready for a temple marriage. If I could offer you anything - it would be to quit taking the luggage of your X with you into your next marriage - put it once and for all behind you, forgive her and forever more speak well of her. If you do your new marriage will benefit greatly from your sacrifice. The Traveler




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