Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Just got endowment and feeling weird about it

endowment feelings temple

  • Please log in to reply
59 replies to this topic

#41 kayne

kayne

    Banned

  • Banned
  • 200 posts

Posted 29 August 2011 - 11:04 PM

my first time being a year ago so its a bit fresh in the brain. i do recall that temple prep class being useless. i mean worthless. seriously what was the point of several classes that could be summed up as cant talk about it yet. and i was friends with the teacher and i could completely tell he just had this you folks have no idea what your getting into LOL attitude. and its true LDS folk have no clue what they are walking into. then of course there was ordering temple clothes which required my mom since she had a valid temple recommend and i didnt and you cant order garments till youve gotten them yourself. so then there was the temple clothing im thinking what the **** is this as she was looking online of what needed to be ordered im just like WHAT? well i needed to seriously pray about something the first time i went so i fasted too. granted i was clueless didnt know how it was going to work and during the whole thing wondering what i just go myself into. i had heard about the secret names before but the whole what am i doing never clicked till i found out this is where they come from. the ceremony i was largely blown away from sheer what is this to oh man what did i just sign up for to the cult like ritual like ceremonies of it all. yes TC i agree it feels like a cult ritual in fact i still think that but perhaps ive seen too many horror movies so ill make that connection forever. also the video is low budget C rated movie quality. really its just corny on all levels lol. the music is great but that video and acting and special effects. geez lol. and the Live action productions just make me go wow in a sarcastic way. the celestial room is though what takes the cake. i love that room. its really the only part of it all that makes me think its worth it. especially since ive seen the endowment session like 30 times in a year i really dont know what else to get from it i can get something if i stay awake through it and go in with an open mind but generally it still has that feeling. i also know the temple ritual has changed over the years and i dont feel bad knowing that now that ive gone through the temple and the older one i know was certainly more rough this just makes me wonder why it was even changed? granted i dont question the church being true but it just adds further to my what is going on in the temple? please if you look this up dont let it sway your belief any. ive also gotten a peak at a holy of holies room since in one temple i went too it was right smack in the middle. thats a whole other level of feeling. so yes its normal to be floored by it. i still am. i doubt thats changing. i just accept its true. the covenants are real and need to be followed. not to mock it all really but just saying there is a lot of what am i doing going on in there. i know a guy that just went through for a marriage(he lied badly in fact i heard he was drunk the night before the wedding) he went through the temple and was just like was this? so i think honest going through and dishonest the end result on the first time is a general im lost and clueless.

Edited by beefche, 30 August 2011 - 01:14 PM.


#42 Scarlet

Scarlet

    Junior Member

  • Inactive 2+ Years
  • Pip
  • 3 posts

Posted 30 August 2011 - 11:31 AM

Having converted To LDS and gone to the temple, this was weird at first for me as well. But I will tell you the more you go temple and understand the promises you made. The less weird you will feel about the garments. Also get with a younger sister at the LDS distribution to help you next time and buy one's that fit well. I know I wear the Carissa kind it holds the tummy in and is more form fitting. I also get the petite size that way they are not hanging out under my skirt. For winter I get the pant’s kind and the look nice and smooth under your slacks much better than the worldly underwear.

#43 Guest_FixingTheWrongs_*

Guest_FixingTheWrongs_*
  • Guests

Posted 30 August 2011 - 11:50 AM

A lot of cult stigma in the temple arises from the fact that we have very few set prayers and actions outside the temple. Basically the Baptism and Sacrament prayers are the only set prayers non-temple members experience(if I missed another let me know). The rest are prayers and ordinances, where we do have to say certain things in the right order, but you can add blessings or council as directed by the spirit. The things in the temple, actions and words, have to be repeated exactly as they are given or stated. I was taken aback by this my first time as well, being so used to the way things seemed so "loose" during regular church meetings. After going through for deceased persons a few times things started to make a bit more sense and I got more comfortable. Yes, the garments do take a bit to get used to.

Edited by FixingTheWrongs, 30 August 2011 - 12:32 PM.


#44 mordorbund

mordorbund

    wordHat

  • Ask Gramps Team
  • 1944 posts

Posted 30 August 2011 - 01:59 PM

In my tiny experience, such meetings are of very limited usefulness.

While a missionary in the MTC in December 1982 and January 1983, I and my district were privileged to speak with a counselor in the Provo temple presidency. He invited us to ask him any question about the temple, the endowment presentation, the symbols, and so forth. I volunteered to ask him a couple of very specific questions about the meaning of some of the symbols -- nothing wherein I might reveal anything I ought not, mind you, but just some pointed questions. His answer was to become offended that I would ask such questions, suggest that my faith might not be where it should be, and dismiss us. My poor fellow district members looked shell-shocked, and I felt like I should apologize to them for taking the man up on his offer.

Since that time, I have kept such questions very close to the vest, so to speak, and have asked them of few or no other people. It appears that some questions can damage the faith of others, even members of a temple presidency, and ought not to be asked except in private prayer. It was an uncomfortable lesson for a 19-year-old to learn, but one I needed.


I've had the reverse experience. Yours may have been poor because it was with a larger group, or it could be because the counselor just reacted poorly. When I went to the LA Temple with some fellow missionaries, an Elder confided in me that he wished he could talk more openly about the ordinances so he could get some questions answered. We agreed to talk to the temple president together.

We asked a whole slew of questions, from the Book of Abraham facsimiles to the significance of signs and tokens. He answered what he knew, and admitted what he didn't. I have since made it a practice that when I have a question that calls for someone who either experienced a different version of the ordinances, or has access to the text of the ordinances (or a separate Handbook of Instruction), to ponder it, take it to a member of the temple presidency, and ponder some more.

#45 bytebear

bytebear

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 2320 posts

Posted 31 August 2011 - 07:13 PM

Yes, the temple ceremony is one big ordinance so there is an emphasis on making it word perfect. We are used to short ordinances that are either open ended, like a blessing, or short like the sacrament prayer. The baptismal ordnance is very short. The wedding ordinance in the temple is very simple as well. But the endowment is long. and it involves some level of participation. We just aren't used to that. Our Sunday worship is very passive. We can sit in the back and just listen. But, go to a Catholic Mass and you understand the concept of ritual. I believe it has the same roots as the endowment and it has some audience participation and demonstration, so I can see a very clear similarity there. Also, I was amazed at how much of scriptural detail was in the temple. After the first time I went, I immediately went to the scriptures and re-read specific chapters that were part of the temple ordinance. And I remember lessons in seminary that touched on various aspects that were clarified in the temple. There were a few things that really opened my eyes to gospel truths. The funny thing is, if we were Catholic or Eastern Orthodox or other very old traditions of Christianity, we would be far more comfortable with the rituals of the temple. Even more so if we were priests of those faiths since they are the major participants. Christian worship is just so far removed from original truth these days. And in the temple we are all priests and priestesses so it makes sense that we are far less passive in our participation.

Edited by bytebear, 31 August 2011 - 07:16 PM.


#46 Vort

Vort

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 10101 posts
  • LocationSeattle area

Posted 31 August 2011 - 08:16 PM

I've had the reverse experience. Yours may have been poor because it was with a larger group,


My MTC district consisted of eight members. It was a bit large for a typical Italian MTC district, but not overly large.

or it could be because the counselor just reacted poorly.


Which is fine; we all have our moments of stupidity, Yours Truly included. What baffles me is that the man openly solicited our questions, assuring us that we could ask anything. Apparently, he meant anything but what I asked.

He answered what he knew, and admitted what he didn't.


Learning to answer "I don't know" seems a basic foundational step on the path to wisdom. I am surprised that the brother in question could be called as a counselor in a temple presidency without having learned this most basic and obvious skill.
As if anyone could knowingly commit sin without being changed both in spirit, body, and mind. Let me say this again, sin changes who we are! --james12
***********************
Nice hand, friend, but those are not the cards I dealt you.

***********************
Impenetrability! That's what I say!

#47 NoGreaterLove

NoGreaterLove

    Member

  • Inactive 2+ Years
  • PipPipPip
  • 40 posts

Posted 09 September 2011 - 04:13 AM

Joseph Smith once said, and I am paraphrasing, if Brigham Young knew all that he knew, BY would leave the church. BY said, then do not tell me. The point being. We are just embryos of an eternal Father. We do not have a clue what he is all about. The temple is all about learning who he is and getting closer to Him. So, yes, it is going to be strange, new, different, etc. Our Father is trying to teach us eternally significant facts about him through limited earthly symbols. The strangeness is caused by a wide gap in who we think God is and who he really is. Us mortals are very naive.
John 15:
13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
D&C 34
3 Who so loved the world that he gave his own life, that as many as would believe might become the sons of God. Wherefore you are my son;


My Avatar is my Hero.

#48 Tyler90AZ

Tyler90AZ

    Banned

  • Banned
  • 539 posts

Posted 10 September 2011 - 04:14 PM

I really enjoyed the feeling of the Temple and feel like I understood most of it. It is fun like solving a complicated puzzle and gets my mind going. However, [other aspects--removed specific reference. --JAG] still make me wonder.

Edited by Just_A_Guy, 11 September 2011 - 03:21 PM.


#49 LeKook

LeKook

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 174 posts

Posted 15 September 2011 - 06:45 PM

Okay I'm freshly baptized, confirmed, and have been to the Temple once already (last night) and find this thread a bit scary. Just saying. Are you saying you go to the Temple for endowments and have no clue what the ritual is or what it symbolizes???

#50 LeKook

LeKook

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 174 posts

Posted 15 September 2011 - 06:53 PM

P.S. I understand the sacredness of these rituals, so no, not asking for specifics on anything per se, but it would be nice to be able to relate to the symbolism of a ritual. :)

#51 Roseslipper

Roseslipper

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1434 posts
  • LocationFlorida

Posted 15 September 2011 - 08:08 PM

i remember my first time I went to the temple for a whole week and went in everyday and spent hours in the temple i absolutly loved it. It was a 12 hr drive to the closest temple. I went up with my one of my best friends and a bishop. they worked in the temple. I was disappointed only cause my best frfiend couldnt be my escort cause she was working, but to my suprise she was in the room waiting for me and that made me happy. it was a grand experience one I will never forget how blessed i was to b be able to be up there for a week and go each day and spend hrs in there.

Edited by Roseslipper, 15 September 2011 - 08:15 PM.
added stuff


#52 LeKook

LeKook

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 174 posts

Posted 15 September 2011 - 08:12 PM

I went my first time last night and loved it too, but then, I only did baptisms for the dead, not any of the more stringent stuff. :) But the entire atmosphere is wonderful.

#53 james12

james12

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 352 posts

Posted 16 September 2011 - 05:45 AM

Okay I'm freshly baptized, confirmed, and have been to the Temple once already (last night) and find this thread a bit scary. Just saying. Are you saying you go to the Temple for endowments and have no clue what the ritual is or what it symbolizes???


Speaking of the endowment specifically I believe many people have a "clue". However, the full import of that ordinance does not come the first time a person recieves the endowment. It is so full of symbolisim that it takes many, many times of going to unravel. However, just to be fair, I think few members (I might include myself here) understand the full import of even the first ordinances of baptisim and the sacrament. Do they understand Nephi's statement in 2 Ne 32:6 or D&C 84:20-21?

President McKay one time remarked, "There are few, even temple workers, who comprehend the full meaning and power of the temple endowment. Seen for what it is, it is the step-by-step ascent into the Eternal Presence." Then he added, "If our young people could but glimpse it, it would be the most powerful spiritual motivation of their lives!"

#54 LeKook

LeKook

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 174 posts

Posted 16 September 2011 - 06:05 AM

Speaking of the endowment specifically I believe many people have a "clue". However, the full import of that ordinance does not come the first time a person receives the endowment. It is so full of symbolism that it takes many, many times of going to unravel. However, just to be fair, I think few members (I might include myself here) understand the full import of even the first ordinances of baptism and the sacrament. Do they understand Nephi's statement in 2 Ne 32:6 or D&C 84:20-21?

President McKay one time remarked, "There are few, even temple workers, who comprehend the full meaning and power of the temple endowment. Seen for what it is, it is the step-by-step ascent into the Eternal Presence." Then he added, "If our young people could but glimpse it, it would be the most powerful spiritual motivation of their lives!"


I guess my thought is, shouldn't it be explained at least, even if one may not fully comprehend it? Or put this way, wouldn't they be more apt to see what it is if they're told what they're seeing?

That's all I'm getting at - I have this mental image of people going through these rituals and ending up feeling like they don't want to go back because they're not sure what they just did, LOL!!!

I've studied symbolism both in and out of the scriptures, so I'm not terribly concerned about eventually sorting it out, but some might be. For me, I've determined that I'm willing to put in the time and experience to figure it out. :popcorn:

-LeKook


#55 beefche

beefche

    The resident cow

  • Senior Moderators
  • 8358 posts
  • LocationHoosier State!

Posted 16 September 2011 - 06:39 AM

Okay I'm freshly baptized, confirmed, and have been to the Temple once already (last night) and find this thread a bit scary. Just saying. Are you saying you go to the Temple for endowments and have no clue what the ritual is or what it symbolizes???


No, it is just LDS, on the whole, do not have rituals. The closest we come out of the temple is the sacrament--the prayer must be recited exactly or the priest must start over. But even then, other than the prayer, how the sacrament is given varies from ward to ward.

The temple, on the other hand, is very ritualistic. I, personally, didn't have an issue with it. But, others have. Everything is a symbol for something else. Some symbols are obvious but many are not obvious. It takes being patient, prayerful, and thoughtful (with lots of time added) to understand what the symbols are as well as the many layers of teachings behind the symbols.

I recommend to anyone receiving their own endowment the first time, to sit the night before with their escort and have their escort tell them as much as possble of what to expect. It is a great relief to get a step by step guide on what to expect (and nothing needs to be said about the sacred parts unspoken out of the temple).
I say that we need to teach our people to find their answers in the scriptures...But the unfortunate thing is that so many of us are not reading the scriptures. We do not know what is in them, and therefore we speculate about things that we ought to have found in the scriptures themselves. I think that therein is one of our biggest dangers of today."
--President Harold B. Lee, December, 1972

#56 Blackmarch

Blackmarch

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 3453 posts

Posted 16 September 2011 - 06:47 AM

Okay I'm freshly baptized, confirmed, and have been to the Temple once already (last night) and find this thread a bit scary. Just saying. Are you saying you go to the Temple for endowments and have no clue what the ritual is or what it symbolizes???

no theres symbolisms on all levels, if you've been studying the scriptures and other rituals such as baptism and sacrament you will see some of the symbolism. I think the overwhelming part is that symbolism is everywhere in just about everything in the temple, which is in contrast to what we are generally used to, which is just a little bit- namely the sacrament, the occasional baptism, and prayers/blessings.
And i suppose not exactly knowing whats going to happen can also add to the apprehension.... luckily most of the time you can follow the example of the others who are there.

#57 mnn727

mnn727

    Senior Member

  • Inactive 1+ months.
  • 2234 posts
  • LocationNorth of Dallas

Posted 16 September 2011 - 08:19 AM

OK, I have not read all the answers, so someone may have covered this. 1. about the garment, you can get them special ordered to your exact sizes, I do this myself as I am not a 'standard' size - you will need to call the distribution center and they will tell you which measurements they need and then it does take about 6 weeks to get them. They keep the measurements on file for 2 years so if your measurments don't change you can just call them for a re-order. 2. About the weirdness -- I felt the exact thing the first times I went through. Why? because no one told me how symbolic the endowment is. To this day I personally feel the symbolism should be updated. Remember though the symbolism is not the endowment, the Covenants are the endowment. I think the reason that the symbolism throws some people is that in the Church we use very little symbolism and in fact we tend to at least superficially be against symbolism and then all of a sudden you get 99% symbolism in the Temple. My advice is to continue to go through the Temple as often as you can, really listen to what is said and done, and then pray about it, search the scriptures, read about symbolism.

#58 james12

james12

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 352 posts

Posted 16 September 2011 - 09:27 AM

I guess my thought is, shouldn't it be explained at least, even if one may not fully comprehend it? Or put this way, wouldn't they be more apt to see what it is if they're told what they're seeing?


I agree with beefche, some of what one does can be explained in advance and should be. It would definitely help a person who is going through the endowment for the first time. I remember when I first went through. I had grown up in the LDS culture and so was surprised by all of the "ritual" and active participation. An explanation of the process would have been helpful.

But as to the meaning of the symbols, that is another matter. On its face there is not much special about a symbol. If I take the symbol of the sacrament at face value I might explain it in these terms, "Pretend bread represents a dead body, after someone says a prayer, eat it." Based on such an explanation I can imagine someone thinking, "that is strange and weird." However, the sacredness of the sacrament, the value and meaning of it is wrapped up in what the symbol represents and my commitment to the covenant made. The temple is very similar.

I might explain it another way. Has the spirit ever touched you so profoundly that words are inadequate? It has me, and in fact I have a few times in the past tried to explain the depth of what I felt. Usually this ends up in a little bit of a disappointment for me because either they were not in the right frame of mind or I am unable to communicate the feeling. This is the problem of trying to describe temple ordinances. In fact, there are so many symbols of this nature and their meanings are so profound that explanation through words is inadequate at best and blaspheme at worst.

#59 shine7

shine7

    Senior Member

  • Inactive 1+ year
  • 122 posts

Posted 18 September 2011 - 10:00 PM

My first time in the temple was WAY overwhelming. I was getting married and was just 6 months out of high school. I was not well acquainted with scripture, though I did have faith in Christ. The garments were hard for me to adjust to also. I felt like I was getting too much information too many ways too fast. I had no idea what so much of it meant and no one explained stuff to me either.
When I went years later with a dear friend that asked me to be with her, I decided if she wanted, I'd explain as we went along (even that can be hard to do as everything keeps at a steady pace). She had the good fortune of being older when she went and was well acquainted with scripture.
I'd say just: please hang in there, go back often, pray for lots of help to understand and for patience to wait for each step of understanding to come to your soul slowly.
Remember this: when we take the sacrament, we promise to be WILLING to take upon us the name of Christ. When we go to the temple, we ARE taking upon us His Name....becoming a part of His family. We are learning celestial laws so we can eventually live a celestial life with Heavenly Father and our Savior.

Now years later, I love going to the temple....oh, I still don't understand a lot of it, but going there has been the place where I've received many dear/personal revelations, and answers to needed personal questions. I love serving my eternal sisters while there. I love the peace there. The more spiritual growth I have in my daily life, the more the temple means to me. I want to be there knowing Christ walks those halls. The more I go to the temple, the more I look forward to celestial life.
Today at church, one of the high councilmen in his talk said: "going to the temple is like understanding Isaiah.....it has a lot of symbolism". Then I thought how Christ has told us to study Isaiah.
I do know this: as we progress in our spiritual knowledge and testimony, God will be there to open up the next step and to open the eyes of our understanding......His mysteries are: spiritual knowledge......so He is going to be there to help us learn and to understand IF we will commit to hanging in there while we learn line upon line and precept upon precept.

Edited by shine7, 18 September 2011 - 10:15 PM.


#60 jdf135

jdf135

    Junior Member

  • Inactive 1+ months.
  • PipPip
  • 23 posts
  • LocationBritish Columbia, Canada

Posted 19 September 2011 - 12:18 AM

I know it's at the end of the thread but I really get Starrynight's feelings and felt I had to comment. If there was a temple prep class at the time I went, I didn't know about it and I couldn't get a word out of my parents before I went. Even after 20 years of faithful activity in the church and what I thought was a pretty good understanding of the gospel, my first endowment experience made me question my testimony of the Gospel and the correctness of the mission I was preparing for. I am still upset at those who could have told me things -- ANYTHING -- about what to expect. I have only had the opportunity to teach one lesson as a sub for a temple prep teacher so I don't know all that is taught but I am frustrated by the lack of information provided . I know there are things not to be revealed outside of the temple but (and correct me if I am wrong) these things are VERY few and are specified in the endowment. I agree we should be careful, prayerful and follow the spirit in order to honor the sacredness of the temple and activities therein but sometimes I think we overdo the "silence" thing making the sacred simply secret. There are a LARGE number of things that I believe we can speak about in a reverent way in an appropriate place. With continuing gratitude I am happy to say my MTC branch president did just that. As my children mature, I have spoken of things that occur in the temple in ways that my heart has told me have not disturbed the Spirit of the Lord or violated the sacredness of the temple and have provided my children with answers to their questions about the temple in a way they have felt satisfied. I have no doubt that the vast majority of people leave their own endowment very overwhelmed. There is just too much for a person to process in one session. Regardless, NO ONE should leave the temple on that day feeling upset by what they just experienced in the way I was or StarryNight and others have been. If people leave their own endowment with those feelings, it is my opinion someone (teacher, bishop, parent friend, etc.) has failed to follow the Spirit in teaching about the temple sufficiently or appropriately.





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: endowment, feelings, temple

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

IPB Skin By Virteq