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Tithing Difficulties


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#21 Guest_mormonmusic_*

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 06:38 AM

To the Opening Poster -- tithing has been defined as: a) 10% of income defined as surplus, the way it's defined in accounting circles. The 1830's era called it "interest" which means "surplus advantage". B) 10% of income (which in personal finance, is your gross or net wages) I was debating which of these interpretations is most accurate with someone. He responded: "The most accurate calculation is the calculation you choose" Now we've had Bishops stand up and nail down exactly what it means to their congregations, but I think that is out of line given the 1970 FP letter that defines tithing as 10% of your income, leaving the definition of "income" unexplained in any detail. And then they said "No one is justified in saying any more, or any less than this". Ultimately, no pay stubs are collected, Bishops don't know any income, and they simply ask if the amount on your tithing record represents 10% during the end-of-year tithing settlement. So, there is room for personal choice in this, in my view.

#22 Dravin

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 08:21 AM


Ultimately, no pay stubs are collected, Bishops don't know any income, and they simply ask if the amount on your tithing record represents 10% during the end-of-year tithing settlement. So, there is room for personal choice in this, in my view.


In my experience they don't even ask that, they ask if you are a full tithe payer. I understand how the above is implied by it's what they actually ask. And my two cents is I can see situations in which one is a full tithe payer even if the tithing paid for the year isn't equal to 10% of that years income. For instance converts or someone who reactivated (if I reactivated in June and paid a full tithe from that point on I'd feel comfortable in reporting myself as a full tithe payer, I wouldn't feel like I had to pay back tithing first).
Hindsight is all well and good... until you trip.

#23 Guest_gopecon_*

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 09:29 AM

"The most accurate calculation is the calculation you choose" Do you really think that there's no right answer to which amount you are supposed to tithe on? While the Church may not put out official guidelines as to how we should calculate our tithe, I think the reason for that is because revenue can be defined a handful of different ways, and people's earnings come in a variety of ways. We don't need a tithing handbook like the tax handbook we get when filling out taxes. We are expected to be honest with the Lord and pay our 10% willingly. Our bishops take our word for it at tithing settlement, but the Lord knows if we are playing too many games and not being honest with Him. Dravin, I agree with you on the back pay thing. A convert or someone who has been less active for awhile can consider themselves a full-tithe payer when they start paying a full tithe on what is coming in. Back pay for the year would be pretty rough for most folks, and the missionaries would never be able to have a white Christmas (Dec baptisms) - converts would wait until January to have an easier start with tithing.

#24 mnn727

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 10:20 AM

"The most accurate calculation is the calculation you choose"

Do you really think that there's no right answer to which amount you are supposed to tithe on? .

Yes, I really do, its entirely between the person and the Lord. Furthermore I believe that 'right answer' may change as the person grows spiritually.
I absolutly HATE when some member tries to define what Gods Prophets have chosen not to define.

Your 'increase' is what ever you believe it is. Gross income, net income, net income after expenses.
Define it in your head, pray about it and then try to stick to it.
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#25 Guest_gopecon_*

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 10:39 AM

You'll note that I did not try to define it. I have my opinion, but that may be worth what you paid to read it. I do believe that there is a right answer that does not change from person to person, especially if they are employees receiving a paycheck. Self employed and business owners finances can get somewhat dicey. Either way though, I'm sure that the Lord has an expectation as to what should be paid - and that is the right answer. The fact that it is between you and the Lord does not mean that you can just pick a number and be an honest full-tithe payer. I will say that for people receiving a paycheck, net income after expenses is not a standard at all. You can expense yourself right out of owing anything with that type of guideline.

#26 Dravin

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 11:12 AM

Yes, I really do, its entirely between the person and the Lord. Furthermore I believe that 'right answer' may change as the person grows spiritually.
I absolutly HATE when some member tries to define what Gods Prophets have chosen not to define.

Your 'increase' is what ever you believe it is. Gross income, net income, net income after expenses.
Define it in your head, pray about it and then try to stick to it.


I know what you are trying to say, but personally I'd probably rephrase it like this:

"Your increase is what you, in conjunction with the Lord, have agreed it is."
Hindsight is all well and good... until you trip.

#27 LeKook

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 11:16 AM

I know what you are trying to say, but personally I'd probably rephrase it like this: "Your increase is what you, in conjunction with the Lord, have agreed it is."


That's what I was thinking, but couldn't figure out how to express it, thank you! :)

-LeKook


#28 Guest_mormonmusic_*

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 11:48 AM

I like what Dravin said -- and I think that the counseling with the Lord part was missing from the quote I gave early. Nice job Dravin. I also like the idea that it can change as a person changes spiritually. Ultimately, it's to be done willingly...in fact, to pay it without doing it willingly isn't a great thing, is it? How do you think the Lord views the person who doesn't pay it willingly?

#29 Spartan117

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 11:52 AM

How do you think the Lord views the person who doesn't pay it willingly?


As the reason there's an atonement?

#30 shine7

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Posted 19 September 2011 - 01:14 AM

Take heart, God can help you with this decision. We have a darling older woman in our ward that lives on a pension. She has $100 after her rent and other set expenses are paid; this is for food/clothing/all miscellaneous needs. Our bishop has her pay 10% of her $100.




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