Priesthood Protection - Casting out Evil

[Martain]

One of the signs of those who believe is that in Christ name they shall cast out devils.

Is this only out of individuals? Is not this same principal applicaple to places we have stewardship over such as our home and room?

I have been going under the belief that this is so. Am I wrong?

Having cast them out, what can be done to prevent their return?

Example 1:

You become aware of Group A of evil spirits in your home.

You command them to leave your home and they do.

Upon leaving, they signal to 'Group B' who then enter your home and pick up where 'Group A' left off.

Example 2:

You become aware of 'Group A' of evil spirits in your home.

You command them to leave your home and they do.

After successfully completing the command to leave your home. They simply turn around and come right on back in.

Thus the question, what can be done to prevent their return?

In my mind it comes down to one of two things.

One one hand we have something actively inviting them in and on the other we have a lack of something actively keeping them out.

Let us say we go thorugh our house and our minds and remove everything which would offend the Spirit of the Lord or restrict His presence, in essense removing everything which would actively invite such evil spirits into our midst.

How can this alone be sufficent protection save there be some force or power actively keeping them out?

Is one to argue that the presence of the Spirit of God alone is sufficent protection to prevent evil spirits from being in one's presence?

If this were so, then how could Satan have appeared and tempted Christ who was perfect, sinless, and filled with the Spirit of God?

If the presence of the Spirit of God is by itself insufficient a detractor to prevent their entry, where else do we turn?

In our search we run up against the question as to if such protection is even available in the first place.

I understand that many Latter-day Saints hold the belief that a Temple, as a sacred edifice dedicated to God, is a Holy Place where no evil spirit may enter.

Yet if this is so, can anyone prove by virtue of the teachings of the Prophets old or new that such is true?

If it is not true, can anyone explain where does such a belief comes from?

Let us say that such protection can indeed be found therein and conclude that it could be perpetuated by nothing other than the Priesthood.

Let us refer to the blessings the Lord promised in regards to his house and conclude that the whole is sufficent to prevent entry by any unclean spirit.

D&C 97:15-17

And inasmuch as my people build a house unto me in the name of the Lord, and do not suffer any unclean thing to come into it, that it be not defiled, my glory shall rest upon it;

Yea, and my presence shall be there, for I will come into it, and all the pure in heart that shall come into it shall see God.

But if it be defiled I will not come into it, and my glory shall not be there; for I will not come into unholy temples.

The blessings above are only in force so long as the temple is clean and undefiled. If such a dedication does indeed prevent the entry of evil spirits, then would not such protection only be available so long as it remains holy?

Is this not why, after major renovations at the hands of those unworthy to enter, a temple is rededicated?

If a temple can be dedicated to the Lord, why not a house?

We are told that a house can indeed be dedicated to the Lord through the Priesthood.

If so, so long as it is clean and undefiled, would the same blessings as mentioned above be available?

Yet what can one do when they live with others whose choices and actions would make unclean that which was clean and defile that which was undefiled?

What actions would constitute such a change?

Would a home need to then be rededicated to renew the blessings obtained by having a home dedicated to the Lord?

What blessings are there for having such a home and do they differ from those of a temple?

If one is unable to secure such a dedication upon an entire household, due to the actions of members within, can a dedication be room specific?

Does such a dedication, while in force, prevent the entry of evil spirits?

One could make the argument that such protection is not needed or available. Yet as Priesthood holders are we not accountible before God for the protection of our homes from evil?

One could make the argument that such accountibility refers only to those things of the world which would offend the Spirit of God.

Yet if this were so, then of what need is the Priesthood in order to accomplish such a task? Can not a Father without the priesthood do just as good of a job of keeping out the world as a Father with the Priesthood?

Questions questions questions... Anyone have answers?

[Justice]

I believe as you do. Cast them out also means to have them obey you and stay away from you.

Some time ago we went through a period when we were not saying our family prayers, reading scriptures daily, or having family home evenings regularly. They were sporadic, but not regular. It was during this time we found a large black snake on our kitchen counter. My son and I caught it and put it outside. As I set it free I had this overwhelming impression that I was allowing the influences of Satan in my house, and this snake was a symbol of it. We tightened up the ship and started having all those things regularly. After several months I saw what appeared to be the same snake in a tree just outside the living room window looking in. I immediately felt that the Lord was then preventing Satan from influencing us in ways I did not understand, by keeping him out of our home.

I know it's just a silly story, but it was very meaningful to me. I hope you get something from it as well.

[Forget-Me-Not]

Not silly at all. I love the way the Lord uses symbolism to teach us of spiritual things. I think it can have a lasting impact far beyond words. Wonderful story. Thank you for sharing it. :)

[Forget-Me-Not]

Hi Martain, I very much enjoyed your questions. :) The thing that kept coming to my mind as I read them is that I (we, all of us) must watch and pray always (3 Nephi 18:15 & 18) needing continual protection from the evil one.

[beefche]

I don't know the answers to your questions. We do know that we are not immune to bad things or influences. What we've been given are tools to help us to choose the right and endure through the difficult times.

Thus, there may be some who are more susceptible to evil spirits than others. While I think one should do all he can to prevent such (regular scripture study, regular prayer, regular repentance, etc.), it may be just his test in life and not necessarily evidence that he is evil or being cursed. It's just my test in life is different than his test.

[Martain]

Hi Martain, I very much enjoyed your questions. :) The thing that kept coming to my mind as I read them is that I (we, all of us) must watch and pray always (3 Nephi 18:15 & 18) needing continual protection from the evil one.

Question: How does one watch and pray always during the +-8 hours that we sleep? If it is not needed, why not?

You are a guard at the door to the wall surrounding a castle. Now there are multiple doors to the wall but as for you, you can only be in one place at a time and only protect one door.

Some guards are easily distracted or don't pay attention but you're vigilant and you need to be for the enemy has been trying to get past you all day long but for the most part you keep running them off.

Every now and then they'll sneak past the guards while they aren't paying attention or manage to get invited in through use of disguise and cunning. Regardless of where they enter, sooner or later they give themselves away and you drive them off.

Yet you know your human and sooner or later you must sleep.

You retire to bed but wake to find yourself surrounded by the foe. Battle ensues and you drive them off.

Where are the guards? Why they're all asleep!

Looking around yourself you see the damage they've done and the wounds you've received but again sleep quickly overcomes you.

Relentless the enemy continues to assail you without regard for your need to sleep.

Edited November 27, 2011 by Martain

[Martain]

I believe as you do. Cast them out also means to have them obey you and stay away from you.

If the command to leave also by definition contains the command not to return, how do we get around the problem of numbers?

If we assume that every successful spirit sent packing is one less that will ever bother us again, we run into the problem of there still being so many foes that you could spend every waking moment for the rest of your life casting them out one by one and still not run out.

I am not convinced that once commanded to depart an evil spirit cannot return. Even if this is true, it still appears that an active force preventing entry is necessary. That is, unless one concludes that such a force is not possible or needed.

[Justice]

In my story I emphasized that what we did afterward played an important role.

If you participate in behavior that will allow the "snake" to return it most certainly will.

During the Millennium Satan will be bound, not because we are sheltered from His influence by God, but because the people on earth will not give heed to him.

[Martain]

Sorry Justice, I didn't ignore the rest of your comment.

I initiated family prayer quite a while ago and have gotten everyone else to come too. Yet I have not been successful with family home evening or daily family scripture study. I study the scriptures daily myself because that is what I can do.

As to the rest I am limited for I have no rights of stewardship over my parents or sister.

Hence one of my questions was in regards to protection as room specific.

[jayanna]

To dedicate a home, yes, you need a priesthood holder. It is like the dedication of the temple. I do not know that it can be room specific if others are coming and going, but more importantly if you carry with you the Gift of the Holy Ghost the evil spirits might be in a place where you are, but can't be in you. What harm can they do to you if you do not allow them to tempt you? They can only tempt annoy and distract you. The power of the Lord is all encompassing, even overcoming death itself. They cannot touch your eternal spirit unless you allow them to.

Remember that 3 times Satan was told by Moses to leave, and then he left. Also Jesus answered Satans 3 temptations. I think there is a significance in this...after the third time Satan did not return.

As far as your family members are concerned, I'm sure you would love them to join you in dedicating your home to the Lord. Until they are ready I would suggest shining the light of the gospel by showing them what comfort and joy can be found in service to the Lord. Learning the gospel does not instill fear, rather it brings comfort and peace. Show them the comfort and peace and love that the gospel brings to your life, and they will be much more likely to join you.

Here is a great quote from an inspiring talk about the temptations that Jesus faced:

The question for us now is—will we succeed? Will we resist? Will we wear the victor’s crown? Satan may have lost Jesus, but he does not believe he has lost us. He continues to tempt, taunt, and plead for our loyalty. We should take strength for this battle from the fact that Christ was victorious not as a God but as a man.

The Temptations of Christ - general-conference

[Forget-Me-Not]

Question: How does one watch and pray always during the +-8 hours that we sleep? If it is not needed, why not?

You are a guard at the door to the wall surrounding a castle. Now there are multiple doors to the wall but as for you, you can only be in one place at a time and only protect one door.

Some guards are easily distracted or don't pay attention but you're vigilant and you need to be for the enemy has been trying to get past you all day long but for the most part you keep running them off.

Every now and then they'll sneak past the guards while they aren't paying attention or manage to get invited in through use of disguise and cunning. Regardless of where they enter, sooner or later they give themselves away and you drive them off.

Yet you know your human and sooner or later you must sleep.

You retire to bed but wake to find yourself surrounded by the foe. Battle ensues and you drive them off.

Where are the guards? Why they're all asleep!

Looking around yourself you see the damage they've done and the wounds you've received but again sleep quickly overcomes you.

Relentless the enemy continues to assail you without regard for your need to sleep.

Personally, I like to pray for protection from harm and evil when I sleep. That is, I like to include such requests when I pray before retiring to sleep. There have been times of special difficulty and stress when I've prayed much during the night for protection as well. I've also, at times, in addition to requesting protection, asked that the Lord would send protectors to guard me in my sleep. On occasion I've even employed visualization in surrounding myself with a protective shield, as it were, somewhat like the imagery of a glass dome that evil cannot penetrate.

Lol, in telling these things, however, I wouldn't want you to conclude that I go about living my life in a state of fear or paranoia about evil spirits continually stalking me. I'm a very normal, every day, rational individual, but I also have sufficient understanding of the reality of Satan and of the existence of spiritual entities from the unseen world that are our enemies to know I can't be apathetic or careless about such things at the same time. At any rate, I'd say the bottom line is that I should endeavor to do those things that will keep me as close to the Spirit as possible to be protected by his influence and then have faith and trust in the Lord that I will be protected.

[Snow]

One of the signs of those who believe is that in Christ name they shall cast out devils.

Is this only out of individuals? Is not this same principal applicaple to places we have stewardship over such as our home and room?

As it so happens, just last night I cast all evil spirits out of my house, the neighborhood, city, state, country, world, solar system and made sure that they won't ever come back. Tomorrow I am going to cast them out of the galaxy.

You can check if you like but I am sure that you won't be able to find any.

[Forget-Me-Not]

I believe as you do. Cast them out also means to have them obey you and stay away from you.

If the command to leave also by definition contains the command not to return, how do we get around the problem of numbers?

If we assume that every successful spirit sent packing is one less that will ever bother us again, we run into the problem of there still being so many foes that you could spend every waking moment for the rest of your life casting them out one by one and still not run out.

I am not convinced that once commanded to depart an evil spirit cannot return. Even if this is true, it still appears that an active force preventing entry is necessary. That is, unless one concludes that such a force is not possible or needed.

I also employ commanding evil spirits to depart, though often I can be plagued for days or even weeks before I realize the source of my difficulty as coming from an evil influence. When I do realize that, however, I command them to leave. On occasion I have made this command in each room of the house. It has never occurred to me to command them not to return, but the issue of numbers is understandable so I guess I would simply do it when I felt there was a need.

[JudoMinja]

A spirit cannot enter where it is not invited. This is true for all spirits, good or evil. It is true for our bodies, our homes... everywhere.

The things we do and say allow certain spirits to influence us by "inviting" them into our lives. What are you watching on tv? What games are you playing? What work are you doing? What jokes are you telling? What language are you using? What are you reading? etc. etc. Everything we do determines what spirits we invite into our lives.

You can cast spirits out, but if you do not follow up with the actions that will keep them out, they will come back. This means you need to get rid of whatever invited them in in the first place. Homes can be dedicated. My father had a home we rented dedicated once, because he and my mother could sense an "evil influence" there. I don't remember the details of what led them to decide to do the dedication, as I was fairly young at the time, but I do remember experiences after it was dedicated where we were protected by "good spirits". This was a situation where the bad spirits were already present before we arrived for whatever reason, and the dedication forced them out. However, we could easily have done something to violate the line of that dedication and "invited" them back in.

Those in the spiritual world have certain laws that they must abide by, just as we do. We cannot "break" the law of gravity any more than a spirit can break this law of "invitation". That is why the scriptures tell us that no spirit can have influence over us if we do not first allow it. We can cast out devils... but they will only stay out if we do not invite them back in.

[Martain]

A spirit cannot enter where it is not invited. This is true for all spirits, good or evil. It is true for our bodies, our homes... everywhere.

Beautiful! I would love for this doctrine to be true!

Yet what of Satan appearing to and tempting Christ? Are we to say that he who was sinless in both thought and action was by deed or thought inviting Satan into his presence?

What of Joseph Smith in the Sacred Grove? Are we saying that Joseph invited the adversary to assault him there as well? That he permitted the adversary power over him? Power which almost destroy him and I expect would have had the Lord not intervened?

What of Satan appearing as an angel of light on the banks of the Susquehanna river and God sending Michael to command him to leave? Was he invited on this occasion as well?

If you have been through the temple, what about Adam's prayer and the following result? Was he invited then?

I agree that the Lord has set certain laws that the Adversary can not pass. I agree that one of these laws is that Satan and his hosts can not possess a physical body of another without invitation. I see it as a logical leap to assume that this can be extended to physical locations as well. Yet though it be logical, it does not make it true.

So please help me out. How do you arrive at such a conclusion?

I want your statement to be true and would appreciate if you could use the words of the Prophets to support you so that I may know this is a doctrine of God and not of man.

What harm can they do to you if you do not allow them to tempt you? They can only tempt annoy and distract you. They cannot touch your eternal spirit unless you allow them to.

I don't see an outright way out of being tempted. Being tempted isn't a sin. Giving into the temptation is. The goal is to pay no attention to them and not succumb.

The Adversary and his hosts can not touch our eternal spirits unless we allow them to?

Joseph Smith: "The devil has no power over us only as we permit him."

The adversary has the power to tempt mankind. This is a power given to him by God.

Yet wherein was our agency used to allow him to have such power over us? I expect we must have accepted it as a necessary part of obtaining a physical body.

Who is to say that there were not some other powers we permitted him over us at the same time that we chose to permit in order to come here?

After all, though we know he has the power to tempt, little if anything is known as to the mechanisms and means by which he does so. Who is to say that one such mechanism doesn't involve interaction with our spirit?

I ask you as well to back up your statement with the words of the Prophets to prove that this is a doctrine of God and not of man.

If you can't, are you indicating that regardless as to the mechanisms by which they tempt man, whether or not that involves interaction with the spirit body of a man, it doesn't matter because we are not aware of it?

Edited November 27, 2011 by Martain

[Martain]

As it so happens, just last night I cast all evil spirits out of my house, the neighborhood, city, state, country, world, solar system and made sure that they won't ever come back. Tomorrow I am going to cast them out of the galaxy.

You can check if you like but I am sure that you won't be able to find any.

In regards to casting out of evil spirits. You can not cast them out of someone contrary to their agency or the agency of one who has stewardship over them.

I expect the same can be said for location.

Yes I know you were being flippant =)

[jayanna]

Okay, here is a prophet for you, Job.

After all the trials and false friends that were sent to Job by the adversary did he ever once take Job's agency? No. Why not? God allowed Job to be tested, the adversary threw every thing he had at Job yet did not take away his agency, why? Because he can't. Job had to choose who to follow, and so do we. If we don't have agency, then we don't have accountability.

Joseph Smith in the sacred grove, was set upon, but still he had the power to choose. Jesus had the power to choose. Everyone who is tempted and tried has the power to choose, everyone who has reached the age of accountability must also have agency.

Are we going to find an exhaustive list of the powers of the adversary in the scriptures? No. why? Because in the end it does not matter what his powers are. What he is able to do is so tiny compared to the power of the priesthood. Besides, we are supposed to shine a light to show others the way, not by pointing our finger at all the bad. When we stand in one place pointing at all the bad, even when trying to warn someone else about it, we don't move forward, we lose sight of our goal up the path toward the tree in Lehi's dream. Don't stop moving forward so that you can condemn the bad around you, just hold to the rod and keep going. Like Dory says, "Just keep swimming".

The only power he can have over you is the power you give him, addiction, giving in to temptation, stroking your pride, self-pity, etc. The only way you can lose your agency is when you give it to him, little by little as you let him make your decisions for you. Okay some quotes...

Here is a quote for you concerning this power of agency: from Church magazine

1.

Laws ordained by an omnipotent power must exist, laws we can either obey or disobey.

2.

There must be opposites—good and evil, right and wrong.

3.

We must have knowledge of good and evil; we must know the difference between the opposites.

4.

We must possess an unfettered power of choice.(2)

We must also be accountable for our choices if we are to enjoy agency fully. The laws that exist must bring consequences—and not just the natural consequences resulting from our actions, such as losing people’s respect if we lie and cheat. The laws must also bring blessings from God if we obey them and punishments if we do not.

Satan’s Attack on Agency

Of the premortal existence, the Lord says, “Satan rebelled against me, and sought to destroy the agency of man” (Moses 4:3). For his rebellion Lucifer was cast out of heaven, but here on earth he continues to undermine our agency. He does this in many ways, two of which are:

Disobedience. “Behold, here is the agency of man, and here is the condemnation of man; because that which was from the beginning is plainly manifest unto them, and they receive not the light. … And that wicked one cometh and taketh away light and truth, through disobedience, from the children of men” (D&C 93:31, 39). Disobedience damages our agency in two ways. First, when we lose light and truth, we become blind to many opportunities to do good; and second, some forms of disobedience are addictive—we become entrapped in behaviors that are extremely difficult to forsake. We may even hurt others and damage their agency.

No accountability. Satan whispers in our ears, telling us, “Eat, drink, and be merry; nevertheless, fear God—he will justify in committing a little sin; … and if it so be that we are guilty, God will beat us with a few stripes, and at last we shall be saved in the kingdom of God” (2 Ne. 28:8). Some mistakenly believe that once we have “confessed Christ” and have been “saved by grace,” it doesn’t matter what we do—we are saved. This doctrine is a subtle manifestation of Satan’s ongoing deception that we are not accountable for our sins and that there are no consequences for them.

here is a link for my source

The Fulness of the Gospel: Agency - Liahona Mar. 2006 - liahona

but here is my question, if you only wanted to know what prophets have said about it, then why did you look for the information by posting a thread? Why not just research it for yourself on the church website?

Here is another quote from a talk given by a member of the twelve, "It is no more a part of God’s plan to compel men to work righteousness than it is his purpose to permit evil powers to force his children into sin." Here is the link: Using Our Free Agency - Ensign May 1975 - ensign

Here is a quote you probably already know: 1 Corinthians 10:13*

Why spend your time worrying about someone who our Savior has already defeated? The gospel is good news, brother.

[Blackmarch]

One of the signs of those who believe is that in Christ name they shall cast out devils.

Is this only out of individuals? Is not this same principal applicaple to places we have stewardship over such as our home and room?

I have been going under the belief that this is so. Am I wrong?

Having cast them out, what can be done to prevent their return?

Example 1:

You become aware of Group A of evil spirits in your home.

You command them to leave your home and they do.

Upon leaving, they signal to 'Group B' who then enter your home and pick up where 'Group A' left off.

Example 2:

You become aware of 'Group A' of evil spirits in your home.

You command them to leave your home and they do.

After successfully completing the command to leave your home. They simply turn around and come right on back in.

Thus the question, what can be done to prevent their return?

In my mind it comes down to one of two things.

One one hand we have something actively inviting them in and on the other we have a lack of something actively keeping them out.

Let us say we go thorugh our house and our minds and remove everything which would offend the Spirit of the Lord or restrict His presence, in essense removing everything which would actively invite such evil spirits into our midst.

How can this alone be sufficent protection save there be some force or power actively keeping them out?

Is one to argue that the presence of the Spirit of God alone is sufficent protection to prevent evil spirits from being in one's presence?

If this were so, then how could Satan have appeared and tempted Christ who was perfect, sinless, and filled with the Spirit of God?

If the presence of the Spirit of God is by itself insufficient a detractor to prevent their entry, where else do we turn?

In our search we run up against the question as to if such protection is even available in the first place.

I understand that many Latter-day Saints hold the belief that a Temple, as a sacred edifice dedicated to God, is a Holy Place where no evil spirit may enter.

Yet if this is so, can anyone prove by virtue of the teachings of the Prophets old or new that such is true?

If it is not true, can anyone explain where does such a belief comes from?

Let us say that such protection can indeed be found therein and conclude that it could be perpetuated by nothing other than the Priesthood.

Let us refer to the blessings the Lord promised in regards to his house and conclude that the whole is sufficent to prevent entry by any unclean spirit.

The blessings above are only in force so long as the temple is clean and undefiled. If such a dedication does indeed prevent the entry of evil spirits, then would not such protection only be available so long as it remains holy?

Is this not why, after major renovations at the hands of those unworthy to enter, a temple is rededicated?

If a temple can be dedicated to the Lord, why not a house?

We are told that a house can indeed be dedicated to the Lord through the Priesthood.

If so, so long as it is clean and undefiled, would the same blessings as mentioned above be available?

Yet what can one do when they live with others whose choices and actions would make unclean that which was clean and defile that which was undefiled?

What actions would constitute such a change?

Would a home need to then be rededicated to renew the blessings obtained by having a home dedicated to the Lord?

What blessings are there for having such a home and do they differ from those of a temple?

If one is unable to secure such a dedication upon an entire household, due to the actions of members within, can a dedication be room specific?

Does such a dedication, while in force, prevent the entry of evil spirits?

One could make the argument that such protection is not needed or available. Yet as Priesthood holders are we not accountible before God for the protection of our homes from evil?

One could make the argument that such accountibility refers only to those things of the world which would offend the Spirit of God.

Yet if this were so, then of what need is the Priesthood in order to accomplish such a task? Can not a Father without the priesthood do just as good of a job of keeping out the world as a Father with the Priesthood?

Questions questions questions... Anyone have answers?

I know of folks who have had to cast out spirits that posessed people, and others who have cast out spirits from homes and such.

We do not know what allows or does not allow a spirit to posess something. While I imagine that following the Lords commandments is likely the best insurance against such, we don't know why it happens. In all the exorcisms found in the bible, not one says how they got it, and in one case when Christ was asked "who sinned, so that the evil spirit could take them?" he answered "no one.". (paraphrased)

[JudoMinja]

Beautiful! I would love for this doctrine to be true!

Yet what of Satan appearing to and tempting Christ? Are we to say that he who was sinless in both thought and action was by deed or thought inviting Satan into his presence?

What of Joseph Smith in the Sacred Grove? Are we saying that Joseph invited the adversary to assault him there as well? That he permitted the adversary power over him? Power which almost destroy him and I expect would have had the Lord not intervened?

What of Satan appearing as an angel of light on the banks of the Susquehanna river and God sending Michael to command him to leave? Was he invited on this occasion as well?

If you have been through the temple, what about Adam's prayer and the following result? Was he invited then?

I agree that the Lord has set certain laws that the Adversary can not pass. I agree that one of these laws is that Satan and his hosts can not possess a physical body of another without invitation. I see it as a logical leap to assume that this can be extended to physical locations as well. Yet though it be logical, it does not make it true.

So please help me out. How do you arrive at such a conclusion?

I want your statement to be true and would appreciate if you could use the words of the Prophets to support you so that I may know this is a doctrine of God and not of man.

Well, I don't know if there are any direct prophetic quotes that specifically state "no evil spirit can ever enter a place where they are not invited", and quite frankly I don't feel like going and looking for them. However, this is a conclusion I have come to based on study and inference from a number of less-direct quotes and teachings on the matter. If that makes it a "doctrine of man", so be it.

I do not think that Satan's ability to tempt us breaks this "law". Afterall- it has been given him to "dwell" on this earth and tempt us. He is free to go wherever he pleases, as long as he has somehow, in some way, been invited and has not been "cast out". It doesn't matter how that invitation is given. Like the example of Job- the invitation could be nothing more than God granting permission for him to tempt someone. However, it is only when we give in to temptations that he gains power over us. If we resist, he has no power. He may return and tempt us again, if we fail to remove the original source of the temptation, but again- if we resist he has no power.

He is the great imitator and hates to see his power wane. This is why he attacks so forcefully those who are striving to move God's work forward. There are great parallels between his visit to Joseph Smith in the grove and his visit to Moses on the mount. He sought to turn both away from the path God had given them- but they expelled him, and he was angered by it- because he did not have the power to overwhelm them. He had to leave when compelled to do so, and he hates that.

[Martain]

but here is my question, if you only wanted to know what prophets have said about it, then why did you look for the information by posting a thread? Why not just research it for yourself on the church website?

Here is another quote from a talk given by a member of the twelve, "It is no more a part of God’s plan to compel men to work righteousness than it is his purpose to permit evil powers to force his children into sin." Here is the link: Using Our Free Agency - Ensign May 1975 - ensign

Here is a quote you probably already know: 1 Corinthians 10:13*

Why spend your time worrying about someone who our Savior has already defeated? The gospel is good news, brother.

The questions I asked in my original thread were questions I have been unable to find answers on either by appeal to scriptures or words of the prophets. Hence my reasons for asking it hear, to see if anyone had found something I had missed.

Although my Savior has defeated him, none of us have that's for sure.

You are right that he can not force us to sin.

I do not counter your statement for the sake of argument. I do it because I have evidence that such a statement is not always true if it was in the first place.

After all, are you indicating that the senses of your spirit are awakened within you that you are able to receive sensory input from them in addition to those of the body?

If not, then unless you gain a witness through the spirit that such a rule is true, can you say that you know he has no such power over you? Even if he did, you simply wouldn't be aware of it.

I was sincere when I said that I really want to believe that doctrine.

Something is broken within me. I do not know what has caused it. I've been searching for years. What ever protection is naturally afforded to us seems to have vanished in my case.

Is it sin? If so I have been unable to find it.

I am a worthy temple recommend holder and I'm keeping my covenants. My bishop and my stake president agree. I took it to the Lord in prayer and he agreed as well.

I have the gift of the Holy Ghost and I enjoy it often. If it were unrepented sin which was causing this break, the Spirit would not be able to dwell within me as it does.

The adversary is not forcing me to sin. He does not have such power. Yet let us say the adversary has power to touch your spirit... this still does not force you to sin in any way.

Yet what he can do in such a situation... would be so painful and so horrendous that you would sometimes wish that the Lord would take your life as it would be preferable to its continuation.

So please. Help me out. I asked if you could unfold the scriptures to me in support of the doctrine you gave. What you came back with doesn't make sense to me.

You quote the doctrine of Satan's inability to force us to sin and indicate that should he have power to touch our spirit he would then be able to force us to sin and that therefore he cannot have such a power save we allow it through sin.

At least, that's the way I understood your response. Perhaps your making a logical leap that I'm missing?

How would the adversary having power to touch our spirit break the law that he can not force us to sin?

[Martain]

Well, I don't know if there are any direct prophetic quotes that specifically state "no evil spirit can ever enter a place where they are not invited", and quite frankly I don't feel like going and looking for them. However, this is a conclusion I have come to based on study and inference from a number of less-direct quotes and teachings on the matter. If that makes it a "doctrine of man", so be it.

Sigh... I was really hoping you would. It would help a lot. I've looked and haven't been able to find what you indicate you've found.

I can see coming to the same conclusion as you have if I were not experiencing what I'm experiencing. For I've looked both inward and outward to find the source of the invitation and been unable to find it.

That's why I've come to the conclusion that unless there is an active power preventing their entry into a home or room, they can enter.

My father was away one week and I the only Elder in the house. I called upon my Bishop and asked for him to dedicate the home.

He came and offered a beautiful dedication and I felt safe. Finally I could lay down to rest and I did so fully believing that I was safe.

Yet within 15 minutes of falling asleep, I was woken to see a spirit standing beside my bed which leaned over to me three times, calling me by name each time, and then telling me that evil spirits were coming and that I needed to rise up and cast them out.

Now let us suppose that this was a good spirit. It would indicate that although they had left, they were now returning in force and that what ever power the dedication provided, it would be or was insufficient.

Now let us suppose that this was a evil spirit. This would indicate that either the dedication had no power to prevent their entry or that what ever power it did have was insufficient to do so.

My Bishop himself had commented on how beautiful and good the room looked. He admired my gospel library and the gospel pictures I had upon my wall. I know that there wasn't anything of a material nature that would act as an invitation, and there were no thought sins that I can envision either. I was fully convinced that they could not gain entry.

So if your statement is true, then I am missing something.

I would like it to be true because then I would know where to search rather than needing to consider every other possible explanation.

So please, please, if you're willing, can you back up your belief with the scriptures?

For a long time I held the belief that evil spirits can not enter a temple. Yet in searching as to where this belief came from, I could not find it. Can you? If you can, it would help because it has direct bearing upon the home as well.

[JudoMinja]

Thank you Martain for explaining why this is so important for you to find. I don't have time at the moment to look, but I will as soon as I am able. My disinterest was simply because this is something that isn't a major concern to me, and I thought you were just asking for the sake asking.

[Seminarysnoozer]

Martain, when you say "evil spirit" do you actually mean a spirit being that was cast out with Satan or do you mean evil influences? I think those things are different but are interchangeable terms grouped together with the term "evil spirit". I believe sometimes "evil spirit" refers to illness even.

If it is "evil influences" that you are talking about in an inclusive way then I don't think that that could be completely kept out of anywhere. Part of the reason for that is that we are dual beings both carnal and spiritual. Unless, we just stopped being ourselves, i.e. - translated, or taken up in the spirit, etc., then there will always be evil influences. Even in the sacred grove there were evil influences until he was taken out of that situation temporarily.

Whether one of the cast out spirits is hanging around my house or something doesn't bother me one bit, it probably bothers the spirit more than it does me. I can't imagine why an "evil spirit" would want to hang out at my house, looking at pictures of Jesus and listening to gospel music, listening to us read the scriptures ... that poor spirit would suffer at my house. ... at least I try to make it that way.

[Seminarysnoozer]

My father was away one week and I the only Elder in the house. I called upon my Bishop and asked for him to dedicate the home.

He came and offered a beautiful dedication and I felt safe. Finally I could lay down to rest and I did so fully believing that I was safe.

Yet within 15 minutes of falling asleep, I was woken to see a spirit standing beside my bed which leaned over to me three times, calling me by name each time, and then telling me that evil spirits were coming and that I needed to rise up and cast them out.

Now let us suppose that this was a good spirit. It would indicate that although they had left, they were now returning in force and that what ever power the dedication provided, it would be or was insufficient.

Now let us suppose that this was a evil spirit. This would indicate that either the dedication had no power to prevent their entry or that what ever power it did have was insufficient to do so.

.

As one with an advanced degree in neuroscience and an interest in sleep medicine, how do you know that you were "woken"?, at least, all the way? How do you know that you weren't in a state of half-awake, half-asleep, which is what the whole category of parasomnias are?

In a state of parasomnia, one can be in a dream like state and maintain memory of the story without fully being awake. It can seem real and often incorporates ideas that were in the short term memory. There are areas of the brain that are devoted to "what ifs". What if this and what if that. If that area of the brain was firing during a dream or even slow wave sleep for that matter and one half-way woke up, then the person could incorporate that thought and that thought pattern into a "reasonable" explanation for the brain to make sense of the thought as if it had really happened. This has been shown many times over such as spraying water in a persons face while asleep and then they wake up feeling as if they were in a rainstorm etc. Or saying a certain word to a person and the story surrounds the word given. One's awareness of their own brain function and thought patterns is as much as one seeing every little calculation the computer you are on comes up on the screen ... which is very little. We are sometimes made a little aware of the subconscious themes incorporated into dreams or thought patterns while asleep. How would you know? I don't think you can. How do you know if the "what if" frontal lobe circuits that correlates to you subconscious concern of evil spirits turned on the moment you were coming out of sleep, thus reinforcing that concern so it remained every time you woke up. You wouldn't know ... unless you can tell me a way you would know.

[Forget-Me-Not]

The questions I asked in my original thread were questions I have been unable to find answers on either by appeal to scriptures or words of the prophets. Hence my reasons for asking it hear, to see if anyone had found something I had missed.

Although my Savior has defeated him, none of us have that's for sure.

You are right that he can not force us to sin.

I do not counter your statement for the sake of argument. I do it because I have evidence that such a statement is not always true if it was in the first place.

After all, are you indicating that the senses of your spirit are awakened within you that you are able to receive sensory input from them in addition to those of the body?

If not, then unless you gain a witness through the spirit that such a rule is true, can you say that you know he has no such power over you? Even if he did, you simply wouldn't be aware of it.

I was sincere when I said that I really want to believe that doctrine.

Something is broken within me. I do not know what has caused it. I've been searching for years. What ever protection is naturally afforded to us seems to have vanished in my case.

Is it sin? If so I have been unable to find it.

I am a worthy temple recommend holder and I'm keeping my covenants. My bishop and my stake president agree. I took it to the Lord in prayer and he agreed as well.

I have the gift of the Holy Ghost and I enjoy it often. If it were unrepented sin which was causing this break, the Spirit would not be able to dwell within me as it does.

The adversary is not forcing me to sin. He does not have such power. Yet let us say the adversary has power to touch your spirit... this still does not force you to sin in any way.

Yet what he can do in such a situation... would be so painful and so horrendous that you would sometimes wish that the Lord would take your life as it would be preferable to its continuation.

So please. Help me out. I asked if you could unfold the scriptures to me in support of the doctrine you gave. What you came back with doesn't make sense to me.

You quote the doctrine of Satan's inability to force us to sin and indicate that should he have power to touch our spirit he would then be able to force us to sin and that therefore he cannot have such a power save we allow it through sin.

At least, that's the way I understood your response. Perhaps your making a logical leap that I'm missing?

How would the adversary having power to touch our spirit break the law that he can not force us to sin?

I almost hesitate telling of this because I don't want to discourage you, but battling Satan and his army can sometimes be far greater and more difficult and ever-present in this life for some, than it likely is for most. It does not require neglect, lack of obedience, or sinfulness, but is sometimes what it seems some must endure, maybe because they are such a threat to Satan's work and kingdom.

Many years ago my family was taught by lovely sister missionaries. One remained a dear family friend the rest of her long and devoted life, finally passing on in her late '80s. She was one of the most faithful daughters of God I have ever known and as strong in the gospel as any of us could ever hope to be.

This woman was neither weak in her trust of the Lord, nor in the confidence of her own being as a daughter of God, yet she was so continuously, literally, plagued by the adversary in his efforts to have her that she spent much of her life begging, that if it be the Lord's will, that she be taken home for relief and pleading for the strength of the Lord, that she could endure until she was.

This is is what it truly means to "endure" and when I hear reference to enduring to the end, it is she I can't help but think of. The Lord is my example as to how I should live my life, but she, too, is an example and strength to me, as to how much I need to look to my Lord and keep my eyes and my trust ever focused on him, that I might make it through this life. Maybe one of your life missions is to be an example of this to others?