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Priesthood Protection - Casting out Evil


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#21 Martain

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 11:51 AM

Well, I don't know if there are any direct prophetic quotes that specifically state "no evil spirit can ever enter a place where they are not invited", and quite frankly I don't feel like going and looking for them. However, this is a conclusion I have come to based on study and inference from a number of less-direct quotes and teachings on the matter. If that makes it a "doctrine of man", so be it.


Sigh... I was really hoping you would. It would help a lot. I've looked and haven't been able to find what you indicate you've found.

I can see coming to the same conclusion as you have if I were not experiencing what I'm experiencing. For I've looked both inward and outward to find the source of the invitation and been unable to find it.

That's why I've come to the conclusion that unless there is an active power preventing their entry into a home or room, they can enter.

My father was away one week and I the only Elder in the house. I called upon my Bishop and asked for him to dedicate the home.

He came and offered a beautiful dedication and I felt safe. Finally I could lay down to rest and I did so fully believing that I was safe.

Yet within 15 minutes of falling asleep, I was woken to see a spirit standing beside my bed which leaned over to me three times, calling me by name each time, and then telling me that evil spirits were coming and that I needed to rise up and cast them out.

Now let us suppose that this was a good spirit. It would indicate that although they had left, they were now returning in force and that what ever power the dedication provided, it would be or was insufficient.

Now let us suppose that this was a evil spirit. This would indicate that either the dedication had no power to prevent their entry or that what ever power it did have was insufficient to do so.

My Bishop himself had commented on how beautiful and good the room looked. He admired my gospel library and the gospel pictures I had upon my wall. I know that there wasn't anything of a material nature that would act as an invitation, and there were no thought sins that I can envision either. I was fully convinced that they could not gain entry.

So if your statement is true, then I am missing something.

I would like it to be true because then I would know where to search rather than needing to consider every other possible explanation.

So please, please, if you're willing, can you back up your belief with the scriptures?

For a long time I held the belief that evil spirits can not enter a temple. Yet in searching as to where this belief came from, I could not find it. Can you? If you can, it would help because it has direct bearing upon the home as well.

#22 JudoMinja

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 01:04 PM

Thank you Martain for explaining why this is so important for you to find. I don't have time at the moment to look, but I will as soon as I am able. My disinterest was simply because this is something that isn't a major concern to me, and I thought you were just asking for the sake asking.
Bhagavad Gita - “Man is made by his belief. As he believes, so he becomes.”

William Shakespeare - “This above all: to thine ownself be true, And it must follow, as the night the day, Thou canst not then be false to any man.”

#23 Seminarysnoozer

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 01:41 PM

Martain, when you say "evil spirit" do you actually mean a spirit being that was cast out with Satan or do you mean evil influences? I think those things are different but are interchangeable terms grouped together with the term "evil spirit". I believe sometimes "evil spirit" refers to illness even.

If it is "evil influences" that you are talking about in an inclusive way then I don't think that that could be completely kept out of anywhere. Part of the reason for that is that we are dual beings both carnal and spiritual. Unless, we just stopped being ourselves, i.e. - translated, or taken up in the spirit, etc., then there will always be evil influences. Even in the sacred grove there were evil influences until he was taken out of that situation temporarily.

Whether one of the cast out spirits is hanging around my house or something doesn't bother me one bit, it probably bothers the spirit more than it does me. I can't imagine why an "evil spirit" would want to hang out at my house, looking at pictures of Jesus and listening to gospel music, listening to us read the scriptures ... that poor spirit would suffer at my house. ... at least I try to make it that way.

#24 Seminarysnoozer

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 01:54 PM

My father was away one week and I the only Elder in the house. I called upon my Bishop and asked for him to dedicate the home.

He came and offered a beautiful dedication and I felt safe. Finally I could lay down to rest and I did so fully believing that I was safe.

Yet within 15 minutes of falling asleep, I was woken to see a spirit standing beside my bed which leaned over to me three times, calling me by name each time, and then telling me that evil spirits were coming and that I needed to rise up and cast them out.

Now let us suppose that this was a good spirit. It would indicate that although they had left, they were now returning in force and that what ever power the dedication provided, it would be or was insufficient.

Now let us suppose that this was a evil spirit. This would indicate that either the dedication had no power to prevent their entry or that what ever power it did have was insufficient to do so.
.


As one with an advanced degree in neuroscience and an interest in sleep medicine, how do you know that you were "woken"?, at least, all the way? How do you know that you weren't in a state of half-awake, half-asleep, which is what the whole category of parasomnias are?

In a state of parasomnia, one can be in a dream like state and maintain memory of the story without fully being awake. It can seem real and often incorporates ideas that were in the short term memory. There are areas of the brain that are devoted to "what ifs". What if this and what if that. If that area of the brain was firing during a dream or even slow wave sleep for that matter and one half-way woke up, then the person could incorporate that thought and that thought pattern into a "reasonable" explanation for the brain to make sense of the thought as if it had really happened. This has been shown many times over such as spraying water in a persons face while asleep and then they wake up feeling as if they were in a rainstorm etc. Or saying a certain word to a person and the story surrounds the word given. One's awareness of their own brain function and thought patterns is as much as one seeing every little calculation the computer you are on comes up on the screen ... which is very little. We are sometimes made a little aware of the subconscious themes incorporated into dreams or thought patterns while asleep. How would you know? I don't think you can. How do you know if the "what if" frontal lobe circuits that correlates to you subconscious concern of evil spirits turned on the moment you were coming out of sleep, thus reinforcing that concern so it remained every time you woke up. You wouldn't know ... unless you can tell me a way you would know.

#25 Forget-Me-Not

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 02:07 PM

The questions I asked in my original thread were questions I have been unable to find answers on either by appeal to scriptures or words of the prophets. Hence my reasons for asking it hear, to see if anyone had found something I had missed.

Although my Savior has defeated him, none of us have that's for sure.

You are right that he can not force us to sin.

I do not counter your statement for the sake of argument. I do it because I have evidence that such a statement is not always true if it was in the first place.

After all, are you indicating that the senses of your spirit are awakened within you that you are able to receive sensory input from them in addition to those of the body?

If not, then unless you gain a witness through the spirit that such a rule is true, can you say that you know he has no such power over you? Even if he did, you simply wouldn't be aware of it.

I was sincere when I said that I really want to believe that doctrine.

Something is broken within me. I do not know what has caused it. I've been searching for years. What ever protection is naturally afforded to us seems to have vanished in my case.

Is it sin? If so I have been unable to find it.

I am a worthy temple recommend holder and I'm keeping my covenants. My bishop and my stake president agree. I took it to the Lord in prayer and he agreed as well.

I have the gift of the Holy Ghost and I enjoy it often. If it were unrepented sin which was causing this break, the Spirit would not be able to dwell within me as it does.

The adversary is not forcing me to sin. He does not have such power. Yet let us say the adversary has power to touch your spirit... this still does not force you to sin in any way.

Yet what he can do in such a situation... would be so painful and so horrendous that you would sometimes wish that the Lord would take your life as it would be preferable to its continuation.

So please. Help me out. I asked if you could unfold the scriptures to me in support of the doctrine you gave. What you came back with doesn't make sense to me.

You quote the doctrine of Satan's inability to force us to sin and indicate that should he have power to touch our spirit he would then be able to force us to sin and that therefore he cannot have such a power save we allow it through sin.

At least, that's the way I understood your response. Perhaps your making a logical leap that I'm missing?

How would the adversary having power to touch our spirit break the law that he can not force us to sin?


I almost hesitate telling of this because I don't want to discourage you, but battling Satan and his army can sometimes be far greater and more difficult and ever-present in this life for some, than it likely is for most. It does not require neglect, lack of obedience, or sinfulness, but is sometimes what it seems some must endure, maybe because they are such a threat to Satan's work and kingdom.

Many years ago my family was taught by lovely sister missionaries. One remained a dear family friend the rest of her long and devoted life, finally passing on in her late '80s. She was one of the most faithful daughters of God I have ever known and as strong in the gospel as any of us could ever hope to be.

This woman was neither weak in her trust of the Lord, nor in the confidence of her own being as a daughter of God, yet she was so continuously, literally, plagued by the adversary in his efforts to have her that she spent much of her life begging, that if it be the Lord's will, that she be taken home for relief and pleading for the strength of the Lord, that she could endure until she was.

This is is what it truly means to "endure" and when I hear reference to enduring to the end, it is she I can't help but think of. The Lord is my example as to how I should live my life, but she, too, is an example and strength to me, as to how much I need to look to my Lord and keep my eyes and my trust ever focused on him, that I might make it through this life. Maybe one of your life missions is to be an example of this to others?

#26 Martain

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 03:07 PM

Whether one of the cast out spirits is hanging around my house or something doesn't bother me one bit, it probably bothers the spirit more than it does me. I can't imagine why an "evil spirit" would want to hang out at my house, looking at pictures of Jesus and listening to gospel music, listening to us read the scriptures ... that poor spirit would suffer at my house. ... at least I try to make it that way.


It doesn't bother you because you're not aware of it. If you were, I bet you'd sing a different tune =P.

I agree and do my best to discourage their presence. Yet it seems their determination to destroy us is greater than the discomfort such positive influences provide.

As one with an advanced degree in neuroscience and an interest in sleep medicine, how do you know that you were "woken"?, at least, all the way? How do you know that you weren't in a state of half-awake, half-asleep, which is what the whole category of parasomnias are?


Sigh... yeah I know, I've pursued this path as well.

While not a perfect example, lets try this.

Let us say someone was born blind having never seen color. Of course they've heard people talk about colors. They know that some things are green and other things blue. For them though, there is no association because there is no sensory information upon which to associate.

Your sitting with them one day and they fall asleep. They suddenly wake up and exclaim in surprise. They then describe what you look like, the clothes you have on, the rings on your finger, the way you've parted your hair, the fact that you need to shave, that you have a mole on your right cheek and that your right shoe is untied.

How did you see me? Your eyes were closed the entire time you were asleep! Can you see me now?

They indicate no and then ask what color your shirt is and you say blue. Your hair? Brown. Your eyes? Etc.

Oh! So that's what blue, brown, green, etc. looks like!

Regardless of how one decides to explain how it happened, I don't see how you could conclude anything other than that the blind person received new sensory information by some means. In such a situation you could not logically force your explanation upon the matter because it doesn't fit.

One of the reasons that I am convinced that it isn't what you think, is because I've experienced sensory information which I did not have previously. I've experienced things which for all my desire to rationalize away, I could not have imagined or conceived and have never experienced before.

There are quite a number of other reasons but I'm not here to discuss them in detail. They might be enough to convince you and they might not.

Edited by Martain, 28 November 2011 - 03:31 PM.


#27 Martain

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 03:20 PM

This woman was neither weak in her trust of the Lord, nor in the confidence of her own being as a daughter of God, yet she was so continuously, literally, plagued by the adversary in his efforts to have her that she spent much of her life begging, that if it be the Lord's will, that she be taken home for relief and pleading for the strength of the Lord, that she could endure until she was.

This is is what it truly means to "endure" and when I hear reference to enduring to the end, it is she I can't help but think of. The Lord is my example as to how I should live my life, but she, too, is an example and strength to me, as to how much I need to look to my Lord and keep my eyes and my trust ever focused on him, that I might make it through this life. Maybe one of your life missions is to be an example of this to others?


Thank you. Her feelings are mine. I wish I could have known her for perhaps she would have had insights that she gained through the course of her life which would prove invaluable in mine.

I've wondered the same thing you have.

One of my prayers has been to find someone who has gone through what I'm going through now who can guide me through it and answer some of the many questions I have.

Even though I have not found an individual in answer to that prayer I have wondered if one day I'm to be the answer to such a prayer in others.

#28 Seminarysnoozer

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 03:22 PM

It doesn't bother you because you're not aware of it. If you were, I bet you'd sing a different tune =P.

I agree and do my best to discourage their presence. Yet it seems their determination to destroy us is greater than the discomfort such positive influences provide.



Sigh... yeah I know, I've pursued this path as well.

While not a perfect example, lets try this.

Let us say someone was born blind having never seen color. Of course they've heard people talk about colors. They know that some things are green and other things blue. For them though, there is no association because there is no sensory information upon which to associate.

Your sitting with them one day and they fall asleep. They suddenly wake up and exclaim in surprise. They then describe what you look like, the clothes you have on, the rings on your finger, the way you've parted your hair, the fact that you need to shave, that you have a mole on your right cheek and that your right shoe is untied.

When asked how they know this they indicate that they saw you for you were watching them the whole time and their eyes were closed and the confirm they're still blind.

They then ask you what color your shirt is and you say blue. Your hair? Brown. Your eyes? Etc.

Oh! So that's what blue, brown, green, etc. looks like!

One of the reasons that I am convinced that it isn't what you think, is because I've experienced sensory information which I did not have previously. I've experienced things which for all my desire to rationalize away, I could not have imagined and have never experienced before.

There are quite a number of other reasons but I'm not here to discuss them in detail. They might be enough to convince you and they might not.


People experience things in dreams that they don't experience in real life all the time. I had a dream of falling off a tall building. I have no idea of what that is like in real life. How did my brain come up with that sensation then? What thing is there that the brain could not imagine?

How do people imagine anything for that matter? How do we come up with movies about the future that nobody has ever seen? Do we know what it is like to jump into hyperspace? Or fly through a wormhole? Or travel from one dream to a second, three, four levels deep? Etc.

The imagination is just that, it imagines things that have not been and includes sensations of all kind.

I am not telling you what you experienced, I am simply asking you how you knew it was what you think it was. Your answer, to me, even suggests more that it was a dream like state or parasomnia. I am not sure how one would know the difference. Maybe the only way you would know is if everyone in the household latter saw spirits trying to invade the house.

I am just trying to let you know that our brain is very good at making sense of pieces of information that normally wouldn't go together. It is good at filling in holes to make it seem like a reasonable occurrence.

Usually, spiritual messages serve some kind of purpose. What purpose could or would be obtained from removing all cast down spirits from the house? So long as they are not doing anything to you, which they aren't unless you let them, I am not sure what purpose that would serve.

I am not asking you to convince me of anything, I am just suggesting that there could be several other difficult to comprehend reasons for such an experience.

#29 Seminarysnoozer

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 03:44 PM

Let us say someone was born blind having never seen color. Of course they've heard people talk about colors. They know that some things are green and other things blue. For them though, there is no association because there is no sensory information upon which to associate.

Your sitting with them one day and they fall asleep. They suddenly wake up and exclaim in surprise. They then describe what you look like, the clothes you have on, the rings on your finger, the way you've parted your hair, the fact that you need to shave, that you have a mole on your right cheek and that your right shoe is untied.

How did you see me? Your eyes were closed the entire time you were asleep! Can you see me now?

They indicate no and then ask what color your shirt is and you say blue. Your hair? Brown. Your eyes? Etc.

Oh! So that's what blue, brown, green, etc. looks like!

Regardless of how one decides to explain how it happened, I don't see how you could conclude anything other than that the blind person received new sensory information by some means. In such a situation you could not logically force your explanation upon the matter because it doesn't fit.


I would suspect this person has some kind of blindsight, if this situation is real. Visual information can pass to non-V1 cortex, to extrastriate cortex that is not part of conscious sight or visual awareness and that information could be used in dreaming. One aspect of brain function to be aware of is that if you don't use it, you lose it. After puberty, brain cells that have not been accessed and used in some form or another would die off and we don't make new neurons after that. So a sensory modality that was not used in some way before that time would not be available afterward. But a combination of previously felt sensations could be put together to create a "new" sensation. And, again, the imaginative parts of the brain (frontal lobe circuits and right parietal lobe) are good at mixing those and filling in the blanks to make it seem continuous and real.

#30 Martain

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 03:45 PM

I am not asking you to convince me of anything, I am just suggesting that there could be several other difficult to comprehend reasons for such an experience.


I know. Thanks.

So long as they are not doing anything to you, which they aren't unless you let them, I am not sure what purpose that would serve.


Yet that itself is the problem. They are doing things to me and I'm not 'letting' them do it.

Hence my post and plea to Jayanna under the post found here.

Edited by Martain, 28 November 2011 - 04:00 PM.


#31 Martain

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 04:00 PM

I would suspect this person has some kind of blindsight, if this situation is real. Visual information can pass to non-V1 cortex, to extrastriate cortex that is not part of conscious sight or visual awareness and that information could be used in dreaming. One aspect of brain function to be aware of is that if you don't use it, you lose it. After puberty, brain cells that have not been accessed and used in some form or another would die off and we don't make new neurons after that. So a sensory modality that was not used in some way before that time would not be available afterward. But a combination of previously felt sensations could be put together to create a "new" sensation. And, again, the imaginative parts of the brain (frontal lobe circuits and right parietal lobe) are good at mixing those and filling in the blanks to make it seem continuous and real.


It was a hypothetical situation used in trying to explain my point.

Yeah, true, but another explanation would be that they saw through the eyes of the spirit.

Science is great. It is! At least at explaining physical phenomenon.

Yet when it comes to explaining spiritual phenomenon? Not particularly useful. They have no clue. They don't even believe it exists as general rule.

So even if something is in essence a spiritual matter, they'll try to find some physical explanation to explain it away. Such an explination is fine when it is indeed a physical matter but not when it is dealing with the spirit.

I know because I've prayed about it and said "this" is happening to me and the Spirit confirmed that yes, it is. What else can I go off of than that?

#32 Forget-Me-Not

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 05:52 PM

Thank you. Her feelings are mine. I wish I could have known her for perhaps she would have had insights that she gained through the course of her life which would prove invaluable in mine.

I've wondered the same thing you have.

One of my prayers has been to find someone who has gone through what I'm going through now who can guide me through it and answer some of the many questions I have.

Even though I have not found an individual in answer to that prayer I have wondered if one day I'm to be the answer to such a prayer in others.


I wish you could have known her too. And yes, you very well may be the answer to such a prayer one day. Do take heart in that, and bless you in it. I knew her and she would have willingly suffered to be such for someone else. :)

#33 jayanna

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 09:19 PM

Okay well here is what I am thinking about your home dedication. Your bishop does not preside in your home. You do. He should not have done it, you should have, with all of the members of the home with you while you do it, if you preside in your home. If your father lives there, he presides regardless if he is a priesthood holder or not. He should be the one to determine when it is done and who the priest is that does it. Just like when the missionaries go to an investigator's house, they are priests, but they still defer decisions about prayer, etc, to the father in the household because he presides.

This is in the priesthood manual here: Duties and Blessings of the Priesthood: Basic Manual for Priesthood Holders, Part B Lesson 11: The Father as Patriarch There is an excellent example in that lesson also.

The dedication was done incorrectly.

#34 jayanna

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 09:58 PM

The adversary is not forcing me to sin. He does not have such power. Yet let us say the adversary has power to touch your spirit... this still does not force you to sin in any way.

Yet what he can do in such a situation... would be so painful and so horrendous that you would sometimes wish that the Lord would take your life as it would be preferable to its continuation.

So please. Help me out. I asked if you could unfold the scriptures to me in support of the doctrine you gave. What you came back with doesn't make sense to me.

You quote the doctrine of Satan's inability to force us to sin and indicate that should he have power to touch our spirit he would then be able to force us to sin and that therefore he cannot have such a power save we allow it through sin.

At least, that's the way I understood your response. Perhaps your making a logical leap that I'm missing?

How would the adversary having power to touch our spirit break the law that he can not force us to sin?


What can he do to us that is so bad? Give us illness, pain, cause others to give us pain, vicitmize us, repeatedly, death itself is not so bad, there are a lot of things out there that are much much worse than death. Actually if we die following the Savior, we win...the worst thing that can happen to us is that we become separated from God. Satan can't do that. No matter what happens in the world around us, the environment we are in, what things people can do to us (and yes, some very very bad things have been done to me so I know this) Satan can not harm or effect our spirit in any way, our connection to our Heavenly Father cannot be altered by him, only our agency can do that. Two people, God and your own self, are included in the covenants you make, it takes one of those two people to break them. As long as you use your agency to follow the Lord, Satan can try anything he wants but he can't touch your spirit. He can throw dirty at you, put dirty around you, make dirty sound good, have people enjoy dirty all around you, have somebody shove dirty into your body against your will, but he can't make your spirit dirty. Only you can do that. our eternal condition is not altered in any way until we choose to follow him by giving in to that temptation and turning away from the Lord. IF Satan could force our spirit against our will, believe me he would have done it to Jesus, to us, and any covenants we make would be moot.

This is all over the scriptures, it's harder to find a place that it isn't than a place where it is. Job, Joseph Smith being served up human flesh, Moses being approached by the adversary, it's all over the place.

You are going about dedicating your home the wrong way, and I'm sorry, but you are accountable for that. Actaully, having it dedicated while the presiding authority was gone, by someone not a member of the family probably made it worse. Take the steps necessary to change that, and if it includes getting your own place, then you have to do that. I did it disabled with no job and two little kids to feed, I'm guessing there must be a way for you to do it too, if that is what you have to do. THe Lord would not give you a challenge greater than what you can overcome with His help. You probably already know what it is you have to do, whether it is getting with your family or getting your own place, whatever it is you can do it with the Lord's help, and you won't regret it.

#35 Mamas_Girl

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 12:00 AM

A spirit cannot enter where it is not invited. This is true for all spirits, good or evil. It is true for our bodies, our homes... everywhere.

The things we do and say allow certain spirits to influence us by "inviting" them into our lives. What are you watching on tv? What games are you playing? What work are you doing? What jokes are you telling? What language are you using? What are you reading? etc. etc. Everything we do determines what spirits we invite into our lives.


This is not what I was looking for, but here's a talk given by Elder Robert D. Hales during General Conference April 2006. I was looking for something from an earlier conference that I remember watching on TV, and I remember the living room where I viewed it. With that in mind what I was looking for had to be in the April or October conference of 1981 or 1982 or April 1983. Unfortunately I don't think the talk had a title that is helpful in this case. Anyway, here's Elder Hales comments. I can't tell if this really helps or not, but here it is anyway. :D To Act for Ourselves: The Gift and Blessings of Agency

Although the devil laughs, his power is limited. Some may remember the old adage: "The devil made me do it." Today I want to convey, in absolutely certain terms, that the adversary cannot make us do anything. He does lie at our door, as the scriptures say, and he follows us each day. Every time we go out, every decision we make, we are either choosing to move in his direction or in the direction of our Savior. But the adversary must depart if we tell him to depart. He cannot influence us unless we allow him to do so, and he knows that! The only time he can affect our minds and bodies—our very spirits—is when we allow him to do so. In other words, we do not have to succumb to his enticements!



#36 Mamas_Girl

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 01:01 AM

Also I just found the following from a conference talk by Elder James E Faust Nov. 1987
?The Great Imitator? - Ensign Nov. 1987 - ensign

In it he states:

...we need not become paralyzed with fear of Satan’s power. He can have no power over us unless we permit it. He is really a coward, and if we stand firm, he will retreat. The Apostle James counseled: “Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you” (James 4:7). He cannot know our thoughts unless we speak them. And Nephi states that “he hath no power over the hearts” of people who are righteous (see 1 Ne. 22:26).

We have heard comedians and others justify or explain their misdeeds by saying, “The devil made me do it.” I do not really think the devil can make us do anything. Certainly he can tempt and he can deceive, but he has no authority over us which we do not give him.

The power to resist Satan may be stronger than we realize. The Prophet Joseph Smith taught: “All beings who have bodies have power over those who have not. The devil has no power over us only as we permit him. The moment we revolt at anything which comes from God, the devil takes power” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, sel. Joseph Fielding Smith, Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1938, p. 181).



#37 JudoMinja

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 08:09 AM

Ok Martain,

As far as I can tell there are no direct scriptural quotes that say evil spirits and/or the devil can only enter where invited. The closest I was able to find was this:

And then shall it come to pass, that the spirits of the wicked, yea, who are evil—for behold, they have no part nor portion of the Spirit of the Lord; for behold, they chose evil works rather than good; therefore the spirit of the devil did enter into them, and take possession of their house—and these shall be cast out into outer darkness; there shall be weeping, and wailing, and gnashing of teeth, and this because of their own iniquity, being led captive by the will of the devil. (Alma 40:13)


This scripture clearly identifies that our choices are what give the devil the ability to "possess". I find it interesting that the word house is used here, even though it seems to be an obvious symbolic reference to our bodies, the fact that they chose to use the word "house", I think, means it can pertain to our homes as well. It is when we "choose evil works" that we grant him that power over us. When we choose righteousness, he has no power over us.

Therefore, prepare ye the way of the Lord, for the time is at hand that all men shall reap a reward of their works, according to that which they have been—if they have been righteous they shall reap the salvation of their souls, according to the power and deliverance of Jesus Christ; and if they have been evil they shall reap the damnation of their souls, according to the power and captivation of the devil. (Alma 9:28)


The devil is going to be ever present during this life, as are his agents. This is part of the opposition referenced as necessary in 2nd Nephi. He has been given free reign over the earth and can go where he pleases- except those places where he has been cast out and righteousness prevails. Without his presence and his temptations, we would not have the proper conditions for making an adequate choice.

And it must needs be that the devil should tempt the children of men, or they could not be agents unto themselves; for if they never should have bitter they could not know the sweet— (D&C 29:39)


If your visitation was from an actual angel (I was going to suggest you pray about it to be certain due to the possibility that it may have just been a dream, but you identified that you already prayed about it and the dream possibility has already been covered), I think jayanna has identified the reason for the visit. All things must be done within their proper order, and if you were not the one to dedicate your home then you did not follow the order set out for a dedication. You are the presiding authority over your home, and you must be the one to perform the dediction.

And see that all these things are done in wisdom and order; for it is not requisite that a man should run faster than he has strength. And again, it is expedient that he should be diligent, that thereby he might win the prize; therefore, all things must be done in order. (Mosiah 4:27)


I think this is why the spirit specifically counseled that YOU must cast out the evil spirits. I highly doubt you will still experience problems after performing the dedication yourself.

Also- you expressed concern that you were not really certain if the spirit was a good one or an evil one. Joseph Smith provided an excellent test for spiritual visitations in D&C 129:

When a messenger comes saying he has a message from God, offer him your hand and request him to shake hands with you.
If he be an angel he will do so, and you will feel his hand.
If he be the spirit of a just man made perfect he will come in his glory; for that is the only way he can appear—
Ask him to shake hands with you, but he will not move, because it is contrary to the order of heaven for a just man to deceive; but he will still deliver his message.
If it be the devil as an angel of light, when you ask him to shake hands he will offer you his hand, and you will not feel anything; you may therefore detect him.
These are three grand keys whereby you may know whether any administration is from God.


Bhagavad Gita - “Man is made by his belief. As he believes, so he becomes.”

William Shakespeare - “This above all: to thine ownself be true, And it must follow, as the night the day, Thou canst not then be false to any man.”

#38 Seminarysnoozer

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 08:22 AM

I know because I've prayed about it and said "this" is happening to me and the Spirit confirmed that yes, it is. What else can I go off of than that?


I have never doubted it happened to you. In fact, I was giving reasonable alternative explanations of how that could be, without knowing myself.

Certain thought patterns can generate feelings. Think about when someone has stage fright for example. When they think about the possibility of getting up in front of a group, even when they are not there, they still get sweaty, tremulous, heart rate goes up, dry mouth, etc. Why does a Sunday "feel" like a Sunday, even when a person is not at church?

Just saying the word "spirit" can bring feelings of the spirit.

I think the key is to better understand the purpose of such a message. ie - what is the fruit of this? Fear? Worry? Anxiety? Feeling unsure about your Priesthood Power? A feeling of despair? I think those are the best clues as to what this could be.

Sometimes things happen as just a challenge to see if we continue on the right path without being distracted.

#39 Martain

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 10:07 AM

Okay well here is what I am thinking about your home dedication. Your bishop does not preside in your home. You do. He should not have done it, you should have, with all of the members of the home with you while you do it, if you preside in your home. If your father lives there, he presides regardless if he is a priesthood holder or not. He should be the one to determine when it is done and who the priest is that does it. Just like when the missionaries go to an investigator's house, they are priests, but they still defer decisions about prayer, etc, to the father in the household because he presides.

This is in the priesthood manual here: Duties and Blessings of the Priesthood: Basic Manual for Priesthood Holders, Part B Lesson 11: The Father as Patriarch There is an excellent example in that lesson also.

The dedication was done incorrectly.


Huh.

With my father away, I was the presiding priesthood authority in my home. Therefore I had the right to ask another to bless it for me the same way my father would have the right to ask another as well. Right? Wrong?

#40 Martain

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 10:14 AM

You are going about dedicating your home the wrong way, and I'm sorry, but you are accountable for that. Actaully, having it dedicated while the presiding authority was gone, by someone not a member of the family probably made it worse. Take the steps necessary to change that, and if it includes getting your own place, then you have to do that. I did it disabled with no job and two little kids to feed, I'm guessing there must be a way for you to do it too, if that is what you have to do. THe Lord would not give you a challenge greater than what you can overcome with His help. You probably already know what it is you have to do, whether it is getting with your family or getting your own place, whatever it is you can do it with the Lord's help, and you won't regret it.


Yeah, I've considered multiple times that perhaps I need to move out. Yet when I asked in prayer the answer was that I needed to stay here. I've seen reasons for it since then too.

It would be nice if I knew what it is I have to do, for I do not. The biggest piece of the puzzle as to what I am to do is 'endure'. Yet I don't think that's the entire picture.




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