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Allowable church building use?


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#1 changed

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 04:49 PM

Does anyone on here know what is ok to reserve the church building for? I know people use the building for their own private wedding stuff, we used it for a family reunion once - here's what I want to use it for. There's a hog-poj group of little musicians (elementary kids) that want to get together for a recital (with parents in tow etc. etc.) and need a place to go. I teach piano as a hobbie (9 students) and have a few other friends whose kids are taking lessons from their grandparents / learning on their own - anyways, so it's sort of like a little musical home-school co-op type group I guess you could call it with members and non-members.

My concerns are: It seems like it would be wrong to use the church building to make $, and some of the kids are paying for lessons so there is a little bit of a business going on there - but they would not be paying to come to the recital - the recital is free - does that make it ok? Also, there might be some brass instruments coming (sax, trumpet) and some "rock" music (not a big band, just little kids trying to plunk out Justin Bieber on the piano) would that be wrong to play in the chapel? (I know it is not ok during sacrament meetings, but what about non-sacrament meetings?) also people might take pictures in there? again - not a church meeting - but it would be nice to use the chapel just so we would have use of the grand piano - which would really exciting for some of the kids to see and play a real grand...

what are your thoughts?
Thanks!!!

(We already did this once - in the RS room - but I was not the one to organize it... now I'm the one ppl are coming to to organize it so I can't just point the finger at someone else to blame :D ) It's getting non-members into the church building though, and that is a good thing, right?
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#2 Jennarator

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 04:58 PM

I don't know for sure, however my understanding is that it is not to be used for profit in anyway.

#3 beefche

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 05:11 PM

The best thing is to ask your bishop. But, I believe (and can admit I may be wrong on this) that the chapel is not to be used for such things. Typically the chapel is used for "quieter" things, such as talks, weddings (modest music used), funerals, etc. Other more entertaining things are done in the cultural hall or gym.

You might be able to use another building that has the ability to move a grand piano into the gym (I've been in buildings where there is a grand piano in the gym/cultural hall).
I say that we need to teach our people to find their answers in the scriptures...But the unfortunate thing is that so many of us are not reading the scriptures. We do not know what is in them, and therefore we speculate about things that we ought to have found in the scriptures themselves. I think that therein is one of our biggest dangers of today."
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#4 jayanna

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 06:03 PM

we don't even have weddings in the chapel

They have to be in the cultural hall

#5 lizzy16

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 06:28 PM

We've had the local high school band and other local groups combine together and do one big Christmas music service in our chapel. There was even clapping.
But, my ward (palmyra) has different expectations since theres so many anti-LDS feelings the church tries to smooth things over as well as possible. And, that includes doing local community events.

#6 Eowyn

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 06:55 PM

The building coordinator will know the rules. In our stake, you can't be making money. I guess technically you are from your piano students, but they had no problem with me doing recitals in the Primary room, as long as I wasn't using the church building to give lessons.

I think one of the main problems (in our stake, anyway) with scheduling these extra kinds of things is that they always want 2 priesthood holders on premises. If no one is going to be there for something else, that has to be arranged.

#7 DHK

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 07:04 PM

I've seen ticket sales for stake/ward plays that were performed in the cultural hall in the past. Rules may have changed since then...

Check with your building coordinator and get permission.

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#8 MarginOfError

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 07:09 PM

Ultimately, it's up to your bishop. We let people use our building for these kinds of things fairly regularly. You might be asked to fill out a Hold Harmless Agreement (you won't be able to make a claim to the Church's activity insurance if you have an accident).

I think one of the main problems (in our stake, anyway) with scheduling these extra kinds of things is that they always want 2 priesthood holders on premises. If no one is going to be there for something else, that has to be arranged.


This is a local policy (and a silly one, in my opinion), but if it is expected in your area, that might be part of the cost of using the building.

https://tech.lds.org...g-Activity-Days

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#9 annewandering

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 07:41 PM

It makes sense to me to have someone in the priesthood there since it is the churches building. Why would it be silly?

#10 Eowyn

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 07:46 PM

To be fair, they either made the policy or got more strict about it after a guy wandered through a couple of our buildings right before he went home and killed his roommate with an ax.

#11 annewandering

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 08:02 PM

To be fair, they either made the policy or got more strict about it after a guy wandered through a couple of our buildings right before he went home and killed his roommate with an ax.


yikes!!!

#12 MarginOfError

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 06:24 AM

It makes sense to me to have someone in the priesthood there since it is the churches building. Why would it be silly?


I call it silly because it is unnecessary and does next to nothing to provide security for the building.

I talked about this in the LDS Tech thread I linked to, but I'll repeat the story here.

Our Relief Society started to be persistent about having a priesthood presence at all of their activities after a couple of incidents where women were approached by a flasher in the parking lot. There reasoning was that they needed priesthood brethren (what they really wanted were men) to protect the sisters from such events.

The flaws I pointed out in their plan were that:
  • reports of these incidents were never made to the bishop; he found out about them more than a year after they happened,
  • more disturbingly, none of the sisters who were approached had called the police.

This prompted some efforts in teaching the sisters about personal safety. While discussing security issues, I was shocked at how many people--both women and men--didn't even know there was a publicly available phone in the building with emergency phone numbers posted. Before doing the safety instruction, I don't think the women would have been any safer with a man present because I doubt the man would have known how to call for help.

I also think that the priesthood presence thing is silly because, especially for sisters, it suggests that you don't have to worry about safety if a man is present. But what happens when the priesthood holder becomes the assailant?

Truthfully, I have nothing against having priesthood present at activities if it makes people feel safer and more secure. But I insist that it be a secondary measure. Personal safety starts with yourself.

</rant>

Dude. When both Vort and MOE are in agreement, the thinking has been done. :D


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#13 Dravin

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 06:30 AM

I also think that the priesthood presence thing is silly because, especially for sisters, it suggests that you don't have to worry about safety if a man is present. But what happens when the priesthood holder becomes the assailant?

That and while I suspect quite a few men have hero fantasies, if a crazy axe murder comes into the building to start a body count a couple of high priests aren't exactly a SWAT team. Unless the stipulation is young healthy or trained priesthood holders it still fails as some sort physical security measure.
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#14 pam

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 06:39 AM

I do know when I was activities chairman at one time and also the scheduler for the building, I couldn't schedule the chapel for anything other than funerals, firesides, Primary childrens program rehearsals. I couldn't schedule for weddings as the Bishop wouldn't allow the weddings in the chapel.

Anyone using the building for personal reasons had to put a deposit down and would receive that deposit back if the building was left clean.

#15 Gwen

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 07:26 AM

In our branch there is not separate cultural hall and chapel, it's all one room. So yes we do all kinds of "non chapel" activities in the "chapel". We have had family birthday parties/lunches after a baptism, soccer trophy parties, etc at the church.

I would just talk to the bishop about it.

Also there is nothing wrong with instruments in the chapel. We do sometimes have music that would not be normally used in sacrament meeting. It's a children's recital, I can't imagine HF would be disappointed. (If you were selling tickets to a high school band concert then that would be different in my opinion. lol)

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#16 changed

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 07:36 AM

We'll have a few priesthood holders (some of the students are members, and their dads will be there) and we will not be collecting money at the door or anything, not charging students extra for the recital - so it is a free sort of thing.

I emailed the building coordinator, and gave a full disclosure of what it was, we'll see if it ends up being at our house or not :D

Thanks!
1 Cor 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, ...we shall be changed.

#17 changed

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 07:37 AM

We've had the local high school band and other local groups combine together and do one big Christmas music service in our chapel. There was even clapping.
But, my ward (palmyra) has different expectations since theres so many anti-LDS feelings the church tries to smooth things over as well as possible. And, that includes doing local community events.


yea - when you are stingy with the building it looks bad to non-members...
1 Cor 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, ...we shall be changed.

#18 changed

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 07:39 AM

Also there is nothing wrong with instruments in the chapel. We do sometimes have music that would not be normally used in sacrament meeting. It's a children's recital, I can't imagine HF would be disappointed. (If you were selling tickets to a high school band concert then that would be different in my opinion. lol)


I saw Glady Knight perform in a chapel - it was rockin!

(but then I sort of got in trouble for jazzing up the sacrament primary program music :D - I play the piano in primary, and add a little to some of the songs ... after their little program which included the kids throwing their hands in the air - lifting scriptures up - during a jazzy version of "scripture power" - our bishop came in, told the kids they did good - but that it was his job to make sure sacrament was reverent (he was polite, but I took the hint)

Gladys said she had a chat with President Hinkley where Hinkley asked "so I herd you don't like our music? G:"I like the hymns (dance around the issue) seems like there could be a little more energy..." H:" you do something about that."

I know - reverence - but there is also a point to being enthusiastic/excited/jazzed about it all too...

Edited by changed, 24 January 2012 - 07:44 AM.

1 Cor 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, ...we shall be changed.

#19 Gwen

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 07:53 AM

I saw Gladys Knight when she came here. It was amazing. I do wish we could follow her lead and add some energy to our music. It amazingly powerful and spiritual. There was nothing loud or jarring about it. I thought it was very reverent. I can understand not all the time but on special occasions could be an amazing addition to our faith and culture.

i don't have problems, i have issues
problems can be fixed, issues you just deal with



"The grass is not, in fact, always greener on the other side of the fence. Fences have nothing to do with it.
The grass is greenest where it is watered. When crossing over fences, carry water with you and tend the grass wherever you may be."
-Robert Fulghum


#20 anatess

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 08:15 AM

I'm the person who waves her hands infront of the congregation while singing hymns in sacrament meeting. So, we usually have an intermediate hymn - a hymn sung in between the speakers.

Sometimes, I can just feel the people dozing off after the first speaker, so I would raise my hands during the intermediate hymn to signal the congregation to stand up and we would stand through the hymn.

Well, the 2nd time I did this, somebody approached me (not the bishopric) and told me it's not appropriate to stand up for a hymn unless it's a partiotic song like the National Anthem or God Bless America...

Yeah, it took me a while to get used to the relatively "boring" sacrament hymns coming from being a member for the Catholic choir complete with violins, guitars, flutes, and drums.




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