Should parents put their dating teenage daughters on birth control?


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Yes. I think we should stop feeding the troll.

Ridiculous.

One of us has made multiple, measured, substantive posts regarding the subject matter of this thread.

The other has done nothing but toss around low brow insults.

I will extend the olive branch again, if you wish to discuss with me the matter at hand, feel free.

On the other hand, if you are so convinced I am winding you up, for what reason have you repeatedly bumped this thread?

If yours is a frame of reference so insular, that the only possibility you see for someone holding a different point of view than your own, is the fact that they are, "a troll," I feel sorry for you.

Edited by Klein_Helmer
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Maybe you should be flattered that I wold think that such a horrifying proposal could only be perpetuated by a troll. At any rate, I've already become bored and decided to stop interacting with you. I just wanted to alert others that they may want to consider your motivations before getting too invested.

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Maybe you should be flattered that I wold think that such a horrifying proposal could only be perpetuated by a troll. At any rate, I've already become bored and decided to stop interacting with you. I just wanted to alert others that they may want to consider your motivations before getting too invested.

You are free to believe what you like, but please be mindful that others are as well. I imagine the majority of our forum contemporaries will be able to determine for themselves if they are interested in carrying out an adult conversation without your shepherding. Should our paths cross again, it is my hope we can exchange words without judgment or name calling. No hard feelings.

Only the very best,

-Klein

Edited by Klein_Helmer
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My response is this: Few as they may be, there are good enough people out there. The best of humanity is truly a thing at which to marvel. If we can but find them, and put them at their rightful place at the helm, they are capable of leading us into a wonderful future.

I will concede that such a group has not yet been assembled into a position of influential, world changing leadership; but philosophically, the absence of such an occurence in the past is in no way indicative that such a thing is not possible.

Helmer, the problem with implementing a philosophy by only looking at the good side of human nature is that it is NEVER sustainable. NEVER. Sure, you may find 100 Mother Theresas or Thomas S. Monsons or Ghandis to lead one nation... then they die out... and you are left with relying on a method by which to continue to protect those leadership positions with other Mother Theresas.

Here's History for you. Jesus Christ came to earth approximately 2012 years ago to restore the Church. He installed 12 Apostles at the helm to lead the Church after He ascended into heaven. We are talking here of the elite of all elites. The chosen ones. Look how long THAT lasted before human nature corrupted the system to use such movement into a power source leading to corruption. I tell you it started well before Constantine...

The only way you can guarantee that a system remains sustainable and maintains a self-balancing/self-correcting schema is if you play to man's natural tendencies - and that includes man's capacity for the quest for power and self aggrandizement. A great example of this is Capitalism (I hold this system in high regard). Capitalism, when optimally managed, uses man's natural inclincation for self aggrandizement as the very thing that can make him expend his energies to gain wealth. In that very same manner, man's capacity for greed is the very thing that can separate him from his wealth - a self-correcting/self-balancing system. YET... even THAT system is riddled with problems! Because - man always finds a way to favor that which is evil so you require a system of regulation. And there is where the problem festers. Give a group the power to regulate something, they end up ruining it... because you are fighting an uphill battle against man's natural tendency for power corruption.

I would respond to this by saying that the mechanism was broken, not its spirit.

In any case, am I correct in assuming that the children from these "broken homes" did not go on to commit violent crimes?

Too early to tell. But, at the same time, not all children born of incompetent parents go on to commit violent crimes.

Welfare is not an attempt to police procreation. In fact, some would argue it encourages harmful procreation by incentivizing (or at the very least, taking away responsibility for) it monetarily. Welfare would likely become a thing of the past, were all children given the right to healthy homes and a suitable education - as they would under my plan.

My use of Welfare as an example has nothing to do with procreation. It was mainly an example that I presented of a system intended to eliminate poverty through governance that - because of human nature - is a failure. Your proposed system to eliminate poverty/crime/etc. by governing procreation would also fail for the exact same reasons as what caused the Welfare system to fail to achieve its goals.

This is why our leaders must be carefully selected. Without getting into a long winded analysis of the root societal causes, I will grant that there are marked differences in any number of measures, between different racial and ethnic groups in the United States. I believe however the injection of racism (or any other prejudice) into the discussion assumes a colossal failure in the selection of the leadership, which I find unlikely.

Carefully selected by who? The people can't even be trusted to select the next American Idol, how much more for a ruling class responsible for regulating the fate of the next generation.

Here's a perfect quotation to illustrate the impossibility of maintaining such a system:

“Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws.” ― Plato

"If human beings are fundamentally good, no government is necessary; if they are fundamentally bad, any government, being composed of human beings, would be bad also." ― Fred Woodworth

My proposal is to further promote and sanctify the family, not work toward its disintegration. In my mind, a family should be considerably more than a group of people with shared genetic material.

Regulating procreation is not the answer. You'll have a better chance at achieving your "perfect" family by promoting the LDS values of the eternal family through intensive missionary work.

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