Noisy kids in Sacrament

[paw722]

I wonder if this would be ok to do. The kids are so noisy in sarament meeting I was thinking about making little bags for each of them with some crayons, pape,r fish crackers and maybe a few other things. Would mothers take offense to this gesture?

Edited June 21, 2012 by paw722

[Guest]

I'd probably look at you sideways a little. But then I'm one of those anomalies that actually takes my kids out as soon as they're loud, and tries to teach them to be quiet in meetings. The moms who are clueless about how disruptive their little angels are would probably be just as clueless as to why you'd hand them a bag of stuff.

But yeah, I think you might be overstepping a bit to do that. You don't know whether they want their kids coloring in meetings or eating fish crackers, anyway. When I worked in nursery in my old ward, there was a family who didn't want their kid having anything with artificial colors or flavors. That was fun.

[beefche]

I learned to sit closer to the front to avoid the more disruptive kids.

[Jennarator]

I was in a ward that you could never hear the speakers, ever. I wish parents would get a clue. Take your kids out when they are loud!

[JesusParadox]

No offense, but that is a horrible idea. You will surely offend people... Instead you might wish to exercise a little bit of understanding.

I am a parent who makes the choice to wait a bit before I take them out. Mainly because I actually want to hear the talks. I find it difficult to cut a good talk off and leave with children.

[Guest]

I was in a ward that you could never hear the speakers, ever. I wish parents would get a clue. Take your kids out when they are loud!

The ward here in Texas is the same way! Check this out... they have close to 100 kids in Primary with about 30 of them in nursery... and there's only 2 Young Men that is eligible to pass the sacrament. Everytime I turn while walking from class to class I see pregnant women.

Anyway, if they had to take the kids out everytime they make noises, you'd have half the meeting out on the hallway.

In the Catholic Cathedral, the ceilings are so high, the walls stone, the microphones booming. Children noises gets swallowed up in the cavernous place and the echo of the mic.

So, I'm thinking we can get the speakers heard by just setting the microphones to LOUD.

[Guest]

I am a parent who makes the choice to wait a bit before I take them out. Mainly because I actually want to hear the talks. I find it difficult to cut a good talk off and leave with children.

What about all the people who can't hear the talks because of your kids?

It's our responsibility as parents to teach children to be considerate of the people around them. We do that by example. Part of that example is taking them out when they're being disruptive and telling them why: they're not being reverent, and they're making it impossible for other people to hear.

And for goodness' sake, make it less enjoyable to go out of the meeting than it would be to sit quietly and color or look at books.

[JesusParadox]

No offense, but that is a horrible idea. You will surely offend people... Instead you might wish to exercise a little bit of understanding.

I am a parent who makes the choice to wait a bit before I take them out. Mainly because I actually want to hear the talks. I find it difficult to cut a good talk off and leave with children.

I guess I need to exercise understanding myself . Having to deal with two baby daughters has conditioned me to zone them out. I am sure parents are like that in your ward also. From now on, I will try to take them out more.

My daughters are 18 months and 5 months. In addition, I usually pass the Sacrament. Nonetheless, my wife and I will try harder to take them out.

Edited June 21, 2012 by MasterOrator

[Gwen]

It would upset me.

I intentionally don't bring a lot of stuff for my kids to play with and no snacks. Maybe it sounds mean but I've always gotten compliments on my kids behavior at church and even my 4 yr old sits reverently for sacrament.

There were RS sisters that would give my kids candy while I was trying to teach them to be quiet. I finally asked in RS that they not do that. In effect they were rewarding bad behavior. However, I didn't mind them bringing a little something and making church a treat for the kids, so if they would like to give them something after church if they were reverent in sacrament meeting then I was ok with that. They reacted very well to that. Every Sunday the kids knew who had the treats and then the sister would say "go ask your mom if you were reverent" and the kids would have to get my permission first. Then the sisters took it a step further and stopped bringing treats on fast Sunday to further teach them, I loved that.

Then our branch combined with another and a lot of ppl from that branch eat the entire 3 hrs and pass out food. It was a rough transition. Instead of correcting them like I did before (because my kids are older now) I talked to the kids about saying no or asking "can you hold it until after church?". That went over amazingly well. I had a couple of sisters come to me about how my kids politely corrected them about food in church. The eating still goes on but not near as bad as before.

We have more kids in the branch than we did before. My kids are self monitored well enough that I will take other ppl's kids out for them so they can enjoy the meeting.

One thing that happened recently that made me proud is a sister brought her grand-daughter that was about 4 yrs old. My 4 yr old went to her before church and they were talking, my daughter asked if she could sit with her. I said "only if you can show her how to be reverent". She sat with her and they were sooo reverent. Then later grandma came to me and said that her grand-daughter didn't want to go to primary and was scared when she got there but my daughter being so kind to her really changed things and she went to primary and had a lot of fun. She is hoping she will come again.

If you really want to change things bring a bag of candy. Ask the parents before if you may reward kids you see being reverent after church with one piece. Then watch the meeting for the good kids, make a note of who they are and then after church go to them and say "I saw you being sooo reverent during sacrament. Thank you" and give them the candy. I promise you word will get around and you will have a better result than bringing treats for the noisy ones.

[paw722]

When my children were younger if they didn't sit quiet I would take them out swat them on the butt and go back in. They learned to sit quiet. My ward is very small and I find it hard to listen to the speakers because of screaming children. They do have quietrooms in the bathrooms with speakers so one could listen to sacrament meeting in there. I just feel discouraged and like I don't want to go anymore just to listen to noisy children.

[Guest]

My 3 kids that are old enough know to be quiet in church, or they get to go out in the foyer and be held on Mom or Dad's lap until they're ready to be quiet, and they'll get consequences at home if that happens. The toddlers are learning, too, but of course our expectations are age-appropriate. When they start to get noisy, we take them out and also hold them in the foyer. We're okay with distractions like coloring and quiet toys and snacks for the little ones, but as they get older, their expectations for reverent behavior increase. We're serious about it, they know it, and they behave very well (with a few reminders here and there). What's more, they get something out of church and they're happy after going.

I look forward to the day when I can focus on getting something more out of church, but for now, it's just not about me. It's about teaching them.

Edited June 21, 2012 by Eowyn

[JesusParadox]

When my children were younger if they didn't sit quiet I would take them out swat them on the butt and go back in. They learned to sit quiet. My ward is very small and I find it hard to listen to the speakers because of screaming children. They do have quietrooms in the bathrooms with speakers so one could listen to sacrament meeting in there. I just feel discouraged and like I don't want to go anymore just to listen to noisy children.

Maybe if you talk to your bishop he could figure something out. If it was me I would probably direct all the families with kids to sit in the back. It gives them easier access to exit if needed. Then I would tell the couples or singles without kids to sit in the front. I do not know if that is legal though.

[Guest]

What about all the people who can't hear the talks because of your kids?

It's our responsibility as parents to teach children to be considerate of the people around them. We do that by example. Part of that example is taking them out when they're being disruptive and telling them why: they're not being reverent, and they're making it impossible for other people to hear.

And for goodness' sake, make it less enjoyable to go out of the meeting than it would be to sit quietly and color or look at books.

This may sound cool for those who are really noisy. But, like the ward I'm talking about in Texas, it's not that the children are being disruptive. It's the coo-coo's of babies, and the "hey!", "ssshhh!", "look, ma!" stuff that is multiplied by 50 kids. If you're just isolating one kid all you will hear is "hey!". That's it. So, yeah, you can't really take him out for saying that one word. But, you put that one kid with all the 50 or so other kids saying, "hey!", and you get a symphony. My kids have been through this. You can't expect my 2 kids to be completely silent like adults and make laugh noises at appropriate times in the talk for the entire hour. With or without crayons.

Microphone. LOUD. That's all you can do.

Edited June 21, 2012 by anatess

[paw722]

I don't want to offend anyone but I also would like to enjoy sacrament meeting. I don't mind a little noise but when children are screaming and loud its just rude. I just thought it might be a nice jesture

[Guest]

Turn up the microphone, then the kids turn up their voices so that Mom can hear them, and around and around we go. Then what?

No, that's not the only answer. The only answer is for people to parent up and teach their kids how to behave. If going out of the meeting stopped being a reward and instead was less fun than staying in with quiet books or whatever, you wouldn't have 50 kids in the foyer after awhile. Maybe at first, but not once they learn that it's not worth it.

[Guest]

Okay, as a speaker... I bore my testimony over at that ward in Texas. Standing on the podium while mothers and fathers are twisting this and that shushing their kids, coming in and out of the room... it is very distracting. I would much rather that the adults pay attention to what I'm saying regardless of the activity of the kids.

Same thing. Microphone. Loud. Try it.

[Guest]

Okay, as a speaker... I bore my testimony over at that ward in Texas. Standing on the podium while mothers and fathers are twisting this and that shushing their kids, coming in and out of the room... it is very distracting. I would much rather that the adults pay attention to what I'm saying regardless of the activity of the kids.

Same thing. Microphone. Loud. Try it.

Stop caring so much about what other people are doing. They're trying to teach their kids. Awesome. Good for them.

[Guest]

Turn up the microphone, then the kids turn up their voices so that Mom can hear them, and around and around we go. Then what?

No, that's not the only answer. The only answer is for people to parent up and teach their kids how to behave. If going out of the meeting stopped being a reward and instead was less fun than staying in with quiet books or whatever, you wouldn't have 50 kids in the foyer after awhile. Maybe at first, but not once they learn that it's not worth it.

No they don't. Behaved children make noises in sacrament as a reaction to something - like big Johnny stepping on litte Jessie's toes while she's reading a book garnering an "ouch!". They're not TALKING to somebody or insisting on catching somebody's attention. Those are the kids that need to go outside. Well-behaved babies coo in sacrament. By itself it is not disruptive. Multiplied by 20, it is. I am going to bet that you have never been to a ward like the one in Texas. I was very taken aback at first. A few weeks of visiting that ward and analyzing the source of the noise made me realize these are not misbehaved children.

Catholic Cathedral experience. Loud microphones. Been there, done that. Reverence maintained, children noises become a gentle hum in the background.

Edited June 21, 2012 by anatess

[Gwen]

I know I already said this but in case it got lost in my long post. lol

I'm a big supporter of positive reinforcement as the only way to go. Bring a treat for after church and only for those that were good as a thank you. Not only will it change the behavior of others it will change your focus during the meeting. Look for the good, ignore the rest.

[Guest]

Well then do both, but the kids need to be taught.

[Guest]

Stop caring so much about what other people are doing. They're trying to teach their kids. Awesome. Good for them.

Okay, so you care enough about other people's children and what their parents are doing so that you want them to go outside so YOU won't get distracted. But if you're a speaker getting distracted, you are caring too much about what other people are doing. Got it.

[Vort]

What worked well for me, and for everyone I know who actually tried it, is this:

If your child is under about 18 months old and gets disruptive, take him or her out into the foyer and calm them. Don't let them run around, but do let them play quietly, just as you would in the chapel. Children that young are mostly too young to try to correct.

If your child is 1.5-2 years old or older, encourage them to be still in the chapel. If they refuse to do so, take them out. Don't delay more than thirty seconds or so; they must stop misbehaving immediately or you take them out. And when you get out of the chapel with them, make sure their lives are miserable (relatively speaking). Don't be mean or cruel, of course, but DO NOT LET THEM RUN AROUND. Seriously, I cannot even count the number of parents who take their screaming kids into the foyer and set them loose. What are they (the parents) thinking?!

No, when you take them into the foyer, you sit them on your lap (or on the floor facing the wall) and require them to sit still, silent and with their arms folded. Approximately 30 seconds per year of age is sufficient. When they have successfully sat quietly with their arms folded for the appropriate length of time, ask them if they would rather return to the chapel. If they say "no" -- and several of mine have said "no" at times -- that's fine. They just have to keep sitting there, staring at the wall. Eventually, I guarantee you they will want to go back in.

At that point, calmly tell them that they can be in the chapel only if they are quiet and reverent. Then take them back in, rinse and repeat.

I have taken a child out as often as four times during a single meeting, though it's rarely more than twice. And if you do this consistently -- by which I mean EVERY SINGLE TIME -- it will take a short time, somewhere between a couple of weeks and a few months, depending on the child, until you don't have to take him/her out any more. And after the age of three or four, it's very rare to have to do it again (though I recently took my six-year-old out for misbehaving).

No need to scold or get angry. It's all natural consequences, and it is boring as Safeway vanilla to sit in the foyer. (Mainly for the child -- you can usually hear the speaker. But even if it is boring for you, that's the price you pay to be a good parent.)

As for what the neighbor of a noisy family can do, I can't be of much help there. You can always offer to help if they don't have enough hands, but it's highly risky to offer to discipline the child, even in a friendly way as you suggest. Many people are very touchy about their parenting (or lack thereof) and don't take criticism well, even when the criticism is unintended and merely implicit (or inferred).

[Guest]

You're a self-proclaimed narcissist and narcissists don't like to lose arguments. Got that.

My point is that parents do not take enough responsibility to teach their children proper and civil behavior. That needs to happen by whatever means the parents choose. Turning up the mic as the only solution isn't teaching them anything. There will be some margin of learning where, yes, there will be some shooshing and some going in and out until they get the point. We need to give parents the courtesy and leeway of doing what they need to to teach their children until they learn, instead of getting all offended that they're not putting their attention 100% on you as you bear your testimony. As I said, turning up the mic is fine, but that doesn't take away the responsibility of the parents to teach their children reverence, and that needs to be emphasized in church way more than it is.

[Bini]

I firmly believe that unruly and noisy children should be removed, inside and outside of church. That said, I don't mind or see anything wrong with parents giving young children a book or snack during Sacrament Meeting to hold them over. I remember when I was a tiny tike having LDS kiddie books to look through and snacks to munch on. By 8, when I was baptised, I knew what reverence was and I was able to sit during meetings without a fuss. Teaching your kids to sit still and listen is a gradual process. I think adults forget this.

[Vort]

I am a parent who makes the choice to wait a bit before I take them out. Mainly because I actually want to hear the talks. I find it difficult to cut a good talk off and leave with children.

I sympathize with you, but parenting comes first. Your first duty is to teach your darling little barbarian to be civilized. Inevitably, that will mean that you miss out on some talks. This is an unfortunate but unavoidable side effect of being a good parent.

Tell your child to cease being disruptive. If s/he does not respond immediately, take him/her out. Really, that is the only polite thing to do. It also happens to be the very best thing for your child, teaching him/her (as it does) that antisocial, disruptive behavior is not tolerated.