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I'm in shock! pls help,, is this true about mormon teaching??


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#1 MissSpider

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 08:38 PM

[FONT="Arial"][SIZE="2"][SIZE="3"]hi there
im a new member of the church . i used to be a protestant , but i have not gone to church for a while, until i met the mormon missionary , and now im covert to mormon church. i love God and Jesus Christ. i love mormon and happy to be mormon.
i was reading a lot of debate about Mormon as a true church or not. so as i want to become missionary in the future and i want to be able to answer all the question in the debate that Mormon is the true chuch. and i found this ex-mormon website. so i read... and i found something that is trouble me.

are this true? is mormon really teaching like this?

1.God was once a man like us. (wait a sec how can God used to be a man?)
2.God lives on a planet near the star Kolob. (what?!)
3.God ("Heavenly Father") has at least one wife, our "Mother in Heaven," but she is so holy that we are not to discuss her nor pray to her. (okay i can accept this one)
4.Jesus was married. (No way)
5.We can become like God and rule over our own universe. (i know we can be gods,but ruling our own universe is different thing)
6.There are many gods, ruling over their own worlds.
7.Jesus Christ was conceived by God the Father by having sex with Mary, who was temporarily his wife. (God was having sex with Mary ???!!!)
8.We should not pray to Jesus, nor try to feel a personal relationship with him.
10.In the highest degree of the celestial kingdom some men will have more than one wife. (what! so why do we need to seal for)
11.Before coming to this earth we lived as spirits in a "pre-existence", during which we were tested; our position in this life (whether born to Mormons or savages, or in America or Africa) is our reward or punishment for our obedience in that life. (but arenot we have a perfect/pure life before we come to earth???)
12.Dark skin is a curse from God, the result of our sin, or the sin of our ancestors. If sufficiently righteous, a dark-skinned person will become light-skinned.
13.The Garden of Eden was in Missouri. All humanity before the Great Flood lived in the western hemisphere. The Ark transported Noah and the other survivors to the eastern hemisphere. (Garden of Eden was in Missouri???)
15.Christ will not return to earth in any year that has seen a rainbow.
16.The sun receives its light from the star Kolob. (where is this Kolob anyway)
17.A righteous Mormon will actually see the face of God in the Mormon temple.
18.You can identify a false angel by the color of his hair, or by offering to shake his hand.

i am in shock and need a lot of help now,,, IS THIS REALLY TRUE? this article from ex-mormon was written in 2011.

i will ask the Elders later when i meet them for another session too.
but please help me out now.
i love mormon so much and now i feel quite in shock.

#2 Eowyn

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 08:48 PM

1. Why are you getting your information from something written by an ex-Mormon? 2. Many of this are only speculation at best. Most are utter nonsense.

"Therefore, let us beware of false prophets and false teachers, both men and women, who are self-appointed declarers of the doctrines of the Church and who seek to spread their false gospel and attract followers by sponsoring symposia, books, and journals whose contents challenge fundamental doctrines of the Church. Beware of those who speak and publish in opposition to God’s true prophets and who actively proselyte others with reckless disregard for the eternal well-being of those whom they seduce. Like Nehor and Korihor in the Book of Mormon, they rely on sophistry to deceive and entice others to their views. They “set themselves up for a light unto the world, that they may get gain and praise of the world; but they seek not the welfare of Zion” (2 Ne. 26:29). (Beware of False Prophets and Teachers, supra.)

Elder M Russell Ballard


#3 MissSpider

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 09:04 PM

dear Eowyn,,, since i want to become a missionary myself so i know that i would have quite a lot of debate with other christian,, and my experience that i was look down by one catholic guy saying to me that Mormon is a false religious. so i try to look what they think it was wrong with us so i can argue with them that we are right. so i just go look on internet on several website to see what the catholic and protestant view on Mormon. i found several articles and website that at least with my level of knowledge, i can argue with even not 100% on everything. however , when i read those article they posed on ex-Mormon , i couldnot find the arguement over these since i never learn anything such that. the elder didnot teach me about it and i never heard about it in the Bible. so i get confuse and shock. i dont like it when catholic and protestant look as us badly. i want to be pround of Mormon.

#4 bytor2112

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 09:06 PM

Misspider.....I am guessing that you joined the church because of the Holy Spirit and not because you were an expert in LDS doctrine....right? There are critics of all faiths out their and rather than coming to an internet forum, LDS or former LDS ,is not the way to learn about the teachings of the church. The things of God can only be understood by the power of the Holy Spirit. Before your wee baptized....did you pray to know the church was indeed the Church of Jesus Christ? The Lord reveals sacred truths to each of us.... as we are prepared to receive it. Many of the statements you have posed are framed in a way to achieve a desired response....kind of like how you have responded. Kind of like..."Christians believe in talking donkeys". There are very good and detailed answers to everything you have posted...but in the end, that will not convince you. It is the Holy Spirit that teaches and testifies....seek the Lord in prayer about whether this is HIS church or not. It is..............

Edited by bytor2112, 20 November 2012 - 06:21 AM.

We've got nothing to fear...but fear itself?
Not pain, not failure, not fatal tragedy?
Not the faulty units in this mad machinery?
Not the broken contacts in emotional chemistry?

#5 slamjet

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 09:07 PM

You don't learn to fly an airplane by studying all the ways to crash it. You don't learn to talk to a drug addict by trying crack and heroin. Same with doctrinal stuff. You don't learn the gospel by reading anti-mormon literature. Let the church say what it believes and then take it to the Lord. There is only one item on your list that comes close to doctrine. Don't let the anti-Mormon's dictate your belief. I would say the same about not letting anti-Catholics dictate a Catholics belief and so forth down the list.
SLAMJET HAS A BLOG!!!
www.reconverted.org

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#6 DHK

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 09:08 PM

I will address a select few of your questions. However, I will strongly encourage you to ask the missionaries... and to do more searching on lds.org and even here on lds.net.

8.We should not pray to Jesus, nor try to feel a personal relationship with him.


We pray to the Father because that is who Jesus Christ prays to.

11.Before coming to this earth we lived as spirits in a "pre-existence", during which we were tested; our position in this life (whether born to Mormons or savages, or in America or Africa) is our reward or punishment for our obedience in that life. (but arenot we have a perfect/pure life before we come to earth???)


False statement. Never even heard of that one. There were other related false teachings, but they are also answered in the link that I provided below for your next question.

12.Dark skin is a curse from God, the result of our sin, or the sin of our ancestors. If sufficiently righteous, a dark-skinned person will become light-skinned.


Start here:
http://www.lds.net/f...scriptures.html

15.Christ will not return to earth in any year that has seen a rainbow.


No rainbows before Second Coming - LDS Mormon myth and legend

16.The sun receives its light from the star Kolob. (where is this Kolob anyway)


Never heard of that one. False interpretation/teaching.

18.You can identify a false angel by the color of his hair, or by offering to shake his hand.


Doctrine and Covenants 129*

i am in shock and need a lot of help now,,, IS THIS REALLY TRUE? this article from ex-mormon was written in 2011.


Why do ex-mormons have more credibility to you than the Holy Spirit does?

1 Timothy 1:7

7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.


Edited by skippy740, 19 November 2012 - 09:10 PM.

"But make no mistake about it, brothers and sisters; in the months and years ahead, events will require of each member that he or she decide whether or not he or she will follow the First Presidency. Members will find it more difficult to halt longer between two opinions (see 1 Kings 18:21). President Marion G. Romney said, many years ago, that he had "never hesitated to follow the counsel of the Authorities of the Church even though it crossed my social, professional, or political life" (CR, April 1941, p. 123). This is a hard doctrine, but it is a particularly vital doctrine in a society which is becoming more wicked. In short, brothers and sisters, not being ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ includes not being ashamed of the prophets of Jesus Christ." - Neal A. Maxwell, October 10th, 1978.

http://speeches.byu....viewitem&id=909

#7 MissSpider

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 09:30 PM

bytor2112 , slamjet --> i met the missionary when i was walking in downtown. it was really amazing. i know only few Mormon doctrine before i get baptize. i feel happy being in the church and sunday now become my favorite day of all cause i can study scripture ,learn new thing in sunday school and watching missionary movie with my mormon friends. i never feel this way when i was in protestant church...that why i covert to mormon. Skippy740 --> the question you ask make me realize how stupid/idiot i am to believe in what they said!! "Why do ex-mormons have more credibility to you than the Holy Spirit does?" thank you ,, it make me feel a lot happier now. i'll pray before going to sleep tonight :)

#8 DHK

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 09:34 PM

dear Eowyn,,,
since i want to become a missionary myself so i know that i would have quite a lot of debate with other christian,, and my experience that i was look down by one catholic guy saying to me that Mormon is a false religious.

so i try to look what they think it was wrong with us so i can argue with them that we are right. so i just go look on internet on several website to see what the catholic and protestant view on Mormon. i found several articles and website that at least with my level of knowledge, i can argue with even not 100% on everything. however , when i read those article they posed on ex-Mormon , i couldnot find the arguement over these since i never learn anything such that. the elder didnot teach me about it and i never heard about it in the Bible.
so i get confuse and shock.

i dont like it when catholic and protestant look as us badly. i want to be pround of Mormon.


You may want to read 3 Nephi 11 again.

3 Nephi 11 

29 For verily, verily I say unto you, he that hath the spirit of contention is not of me, but is of the devil, who is the father of contention, and he stirreth up the hearts of men to contend with anger, one with another.

30 Behold, this is not my doctrine, to stir up the hearts of men with anger, one against another; but this is my doctrine, that such things should be done away.



Missionaries help investigators who are searching to clarify proper LDS doctrines.

Missionaries are NOT to "Bible Bash". Bashing is typically done in the absence of the Spirit.

If your job is to try to convince people that "we're right"... you won't have the Spirit with you, you'll be alone in your own power and you won't be following the Articles of Faith.

11 We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.


I've never seen anyone "argue" someone to the waters of baptism.


If you want the "secrets" to successful 'bashing', here they are:
1) Testify
2) Use Book of Mormon verses

No one can refute your own testimony, nor The Book of Mormon.
"But make no mistake about it, brothers and sisters; in the months and years ahead, events will require of each member that he or she decide whether or not he or she will follow the First Presidency. Members will find it more difficult to halt longer between two opinions (see 1 Kings 18:21). President Marion G. Romney said, many years ago, that he had "never hesitated to follow the counsel of the Authorities of the Church even though it crossed my social, professional, or political life" (CR, April 1941, p. 123). This is a hard doctrine, but it is a particularly vital doctrine in a society which is becoming more wicked. In short, brothers and sisters, not being ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ includes not being ashamed of the prophets of Jesus Christ." - Neal A. Maxwell, October 10th, 1978.

http://speeches.byu....viewitem&id=909

#9 DHK

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 09:41 PM

You may also find this article helpful: The Challenging and Testifying Missionary

As I look back into my first mission as a young man, I remember one of my companions. He was a very brilliant student. He came into the mission at 20 with a doctor's degree. He had gained that in mathematics, and perhaps because of his training and his scholastic abilities, had in his mind solely that conversion to the gospel was a matter of detailed mechanism made possible by forceful teaching and the presentation of certain gospel facts that people might then, by power of argument, be made to accept the truth. I remember that everything about that bothered me because it did not seem to me the way to preach the gospel. He was the most wonderful of companions.
[...]

I used to emphasize then, when I was only 18, that the way to teach the gospel was by the "Power of the Holy Spirit." This has been with me all my life - there can be no other effective way to teach the gospel.


"But make no mistake about it, brothers and sisters; in the months and years ahead, events will require of each member that he or she decide whether or not he or she will follow the First Presidency. Members will find it more difficult to halt longer between two opinions (see 1 Kings 18:21). President Marion G. Romney said, many years ago, that he had "never hesitated to follow the counsel of the Authorities of the Church even though it crossed my social, professional, or political life" (CR, April 1941, p. 123). This is a hard doctrine, but it is a particularly vital doctrine in a society which is becoming more wicked. In short, brothers and sisters, not being ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ includes not being ashamed of the prophets of Jesus Christ." - Neal A. Maxwell, October 10th, 1978.

http://speeches.byu....viewitem&id=909

#10 anatess

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 09:50 PM

MissSpider, just a word of advice... LDS Missionaries do not debate anybody on gospel teachings. LDS Missionaries TEACH. If somebody tries to argue, they don't argue back. They, once again, teach. A missionary cannot teach without the Holy Spirit. When one is arguing, they are not receptive to the Holy Spirit. If they ask questions, you can answer with what you know is true. It's not a good idea to go around looking for any false doctrine ever uttered and learn to debunk it to prepare to be a missionary. What you do is gain a testimony of the gospel by diligent study and prayer - if you need a "lesson plan", you can go to LDS.org and go through the Seminary materials chapter by chapter, or if that's too much to go through, you can simply start with Gospel Principles.

Here is an online link to all the classes in Sunday School. This includes Gospel Principles.

#11 MissSpider

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 10:01 PM

thank you alot Skippy740,, that remind me of what the bishop consulor said last sunday about doing missionary. i cannot understand everything (english is my 2nd language) but the part i understand is that "you dont need to be able to remember every verse in Bible nor book of Mormon. all you need is faint in God , Jesus christ, Holy spirit. and know that this church is a true church of God" as i not very good in remember the scriptures( i read it both in my language and english) and still a new member. sometime it get me really upset when i talk to other (without knowing that they are cartholic or protestant) and we get into arguement, and i cannot answer it because i not strong yet in scripture. it feel bad cause i love here. but what u said really help remind me.. THANK!

#12 MissSpider

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 10:12 PM

thank Anatess,, i get work up easily when it come to something i really love :( i will try to control myself better. i not usually have strong arguement with people or not even a debate. but it get very triesome over time when i cannot answer those same questions again and again. and those questions are always come up again and again. and thank you for the plan :) i will be study on it for sure!

#13 anatess

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 10:28 PM

thank Anatess,,

i get work up easily when it come to something i really love :( i will try to control myself better. i not usually have strong arguement with people or not even a debate. but it get very triesome over time when i cannot answer those same questions again and again. and those questions are always come up again and again.

and thank you for the plan :) i will be study on it for sure!


I completely understand this. I think all converts go through this period of anxiety. Don't worry about things you don't know. If somebody asks you about these things, just say, I don't know the answer and leave it at that. I know it is really difficult to have to stand there and stay quiet while getting attacked... but, it is better to walk away than to chew on everything ex-mormons say about us.

We build our testimony and our understanding line upon line, precept upon precept - here a little, there a little. If you try to swallow it all at once, your testimony can falter as it will not have a good foundation. So, we are not saying not to learn the answers to all these questions. We are saying - if you learn line upon line, precept upon precept, you'll eventually learn the answers to those questions, and you'll learn the answers from a good, strong foundation.

I am the Singing Time teacher in our Primary class and this year, we learned the song, The Wise Man and The Foolish Man. The lyrics go like this:

The wise man built his house upon a rock, and the rain came falling down.
The rain came down and the floods come up but the house on the rock stood still.

The foolish man built his house upon the sand, and the rain came falling down.
The rain came down and the floods come up and the house on the sand washed away.


So, what this song teaches us is that we need to build our testimony on a solid foundation - on the rock of truth and revelation always looking to Jesus Christ and His Atonement that is central to the gospel.

#14 SanctitasDeo

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 11:02 PM

It can be somewhat surprising to see stuff like this, but in my experience, like others have said, lists like that are usually either straight-up false, wrong interpretations, twisted actual doctrine, or speculation (by Mormons) that is not doctrine. People who hand out lists (though they may not realize it and may have what they think are good intentions) want to tear down your faith. The best way to deal with it is to pray, talk to God about it, trust the Spirit, remember what you have felt and learned. And if you want answers about specific things, there are answers. When people tried to bring up stuff like this (though it didn't happen often where I was), I would gently correct them, then talk about Christ. Teaching what we do believe about Christ and the Restoration and Book of Mormon is the best way to deal with most things. We want to build faith in Christ.

#15 DHK

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 11:05 PM

Jesus Christ, The Son of God - Testimonies of Him - The Living Christ: The Testimony of the Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
"But make no mistake about it, brothers and sisters; in the months and years ahead, events will require of each member that he or she decide whether or not he or she will follow the First Presidency. Members will find it more difficult to halt longer between two opinions (see 1 Kings 18:21). President Marion G. Romney said, many years ago, that he had "never hesitated to follow the counsel of the Authorities of the Church even though it crossed my social, professional, or political life" (CR, April 1941, p. 123). This is a hard doctrine, but it is a particularly vital doctrine in a society which is becoming more wicked. In short, brothers and sisters, not being ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ includes not being ashamed of the prophets of Jesus Christ." - Neal A. Maxwell, October 10th, 1978.

http://speeches.byu....viewitem&id=909

#16 LiterateParakeet

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 01:12 AM

MissSpider, check out FAIR

They have many people there who have looked at the anti-stuff, and researched and found answers. They are strong in their testimonies of the gospel.

I second the suggestion of Blacks In the Scriptures. It's awesome!

#17 Traveler

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 08:29 AM

[SIZE="2"][SIZE="3"]hi there
im a new member of the church . i used to be a protestant , but i have not gone to church for a while, until i met the mormon missionary , and now im covert to mormon church. i love God and Jesus Christ. i love mormon and happy to be mormon.
i was reading a lot of debate about Mormon as a true church or not. so as i want to become missionary in the future and i want to be able to answer all the question in the debate that Mormon is the true chuch. and i found this ex-mormon website. so i read... and i found something that is trouble me.

are this true? is mormon really teaching like this?

1.God was once a man like us. (wait a sec how can God used to be a man?)
2.God lives on a planet near the star Kolob. (what?!)
3.God ("Heavenly Father") has at least one wife, our "Mother in Heaven," but she is so holy that we are not to discuss her nor pray to her. (okay i can accept this one)
4.Jesus was married. (No way)
5.We can become like God and rule over our own universe. (i know we can be gods,but ruling our own universe is different thing)
6.There are many gods, ruling over their own worlds.
7.Jesus Christ was conceived by God the Father by having sex with Mary, who was temporarily his wife. (God was having sex with Mary ???!!!)
8.We should not pray to Jesus, nor try to feel a personal relationship with him.
10.In the highest degree of the celestial kingdom some men will have more than one wife. (what! so why do we need to seal for)
11.Before coming to this earth we lived as spirits in a "pre-existence", during which we were tested; our position in this life (whether born to Mormons or savages, or in America or Africa) is our reward or punishment for our obedience in that life. (but arenot we have a perfect/pure life before we come to earth???)
12.Dark skin is a curse from God, the result of our sin, or the sin of our ancestors. If sufficiently righteous, a dark-skinned person will become light-skinned.
13.The Garden of Eden was in Missouri. All humanity before the Great Flood lived in the western hemisphere. The Ark transported Noah and the other survivors to the eastern hemisphere. (Garden of Eden was in Missouri???)
15.Christ will not return to earth in any year that has seen a rainbow.
16.The sun receives its light from the star Kolob. (where is this Kolob anyway)
17.A righteous Mormon will actually see the face of God in the Mormon temple.
18.You can identify a false angel by the color of his hair, or by offering to shake his hand.

i am in shock and need a lot of help now,,, IS THIS REALLY TRUE? this article from ex-mormon was written in 2011.

i will ask the Elders later when i meet them for another session too.
but please help me out now.
i love mormon so much and now i feel quite in shock.

Miss Spider: There are correction answers to all your questions despite the fact that the questions are intended to be misleading – Like asking someone if they have stopped beating their wife. I will give a specific example – Was G-d ever once a man? The true answer is that Jesus is our example of everything that we should understand about G-d. Jesus once was a man – Very True Statement!

Others have touched on the principle that Jesus taught concerning how to identify true teachers. He gives a very simple explanation – but in his explanation he uses a lot of symbolism. Let’s look at Matthew 7:15-20

[FONT="]15 ¶Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
[FONT="]16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?[/FONT]
[FONT="]17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.[/FONT]
[FONT="]18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.[/FONT]
[FONT="]19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.[/FONT]
[FONT="]20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.[/FONT]

Let’s break this down and see what Jesus was teaching. The first symbol is that of sheep. Jesus also compares his followers to his flock of sheep. Sheep are very nonviolent creatures and are not known for “attacking” anything else or other creatures. The next symbol are wolves – They are quite different than sheep – they exist by attacking other creatures – it is what they do. So here Jesus tells us to look out for people pretending to be religious but rather than teach religious things they publish hurtful things about others?

The example that Jesus gives of wolves dressed up as sheep in verse 15 is in verse 16. Jesus gives this example by asking a question – Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? The answer to Jesus’ question is obvious – grape vines do not have thorns nor do fig trees have thistles. Thorns and thistles are present on plants that intend to inflict pain upon anyone that deals with such plants. But grape vines and fig trees do not intend to inflict pain but to give good fruit that provides nourishment benefit and enlightenment.

So from whom should followers of Jesus seek answers? The answer is from those that provide good fruit that will help you learn to love others. And who show you avoid – Those that teach you things that cause you to dislike others.

The Traveler

Edited by Traveler, 20 November 2012 - 08:32 AM.


#18 rameumptom

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 10:10 AM

It is important to separate actual doctrine from the beliefs of some members who speculate. This can include some past apostles, who were notorious for speculating on many things.

[quote name='MissSpider'][FONT="Arial"][SIZE="2"][SIZE="3"]
1.God was once a man like us. (wait a sec how can God used to be a man?) [/quote]

Joseph Smith once taught in the King Follett Discourse that God was once a man like us. This discourse was only weeks before his death, and so he never was able to expound on it. Did he mean God the Father? Or did he mean Jesus? We all know that Jesus was once a mortal like us, and is now God. We do not know anything beyond this, except the speculations of some members.

[quote]2.God lives on a planet near the star Kolob. (what?!)[/quote]

God lives in heaven. In the Book of Abraham, we learn that God controls the planets and stars in a hierarchical order. This is also what we learn from astronomy, as our planet revolves around the Sun, which revolves around the center of our Galaxy, which moves through our universe.

[quote]3.God ("Heavenly Father") has at least one wife, our "Mother in Heaven," but she is so holy that we are not to discuss her nor pray to her. (okay i can accept this one)[/quote]

We know almost nothing about Mother in Heaven. The reasons for why we do not pray to her are really not known, except that God has commanded us to pray directly to Him.

[quote]4.Jesus was married. (No way)[/quote]

Jesus might have been married. Again, this is speculation.

[quote]5.We can become like God and rule over our own universe. (i know we can be gods,but ruling our own universe is different thing)[/quote]

We can become gods, but we really do not know the specifics. Nowhere does it state as doctrine that we will rule over our own universe.

[quote]6.There are many gods, ruling over their own worlds.[/quote]

We believe that God makes us like he is: gods. The scriptures tell us that he then gives them powers and dominions to rule over, under his direction. Whether that means our own worlds, we do not know.


[quote]7.Jesus Christ was conceived by God the Father by having sex with Mary, who was temporarily his wife. (God was having sex with Mary ???!!!)[/quote]

Again this is speculation on the part of some members. It is not doctrine. God could just as easily used in vitro (test tube) conception. Brigham Young speculated on this, but it is because it was the only form of birth he knew of in his day. Today, we know God has a science that goes beyond regular sex in fertilization.

[quote]8.We should not pray to Jesus, nor try to feel a personal relationship with him.[/quote]

We are commanded to pray to the Father in Jesus' name. However, we can only get to the Father through Jesus. I'm all for a personal relationship with my Savior, as part of the process of returning to God.

[quote]10.In the highest degree of the celestial kingdom some men will have more than one wife. (what! so why do we need to seal for)[/quote]

We do not know how the arrangement in heaven will be. We do know that some are sealed to more than one spouse, and it will all be worked out in the after life.

[quote]11.Before coming to this earth we lived as spirits in a "pre-existence", during which we were tested; our position in this life (whether born to Mormons or savages, or in America or Africa) is our reward or punishment for our obedience in that life. (but arenot we have a perfect/pure life before we come to earth???)[/quote]

We do not know how our premortal life affected our coming to this earth. God sends people to all nations, with the opportunity to learn, grow, be tested, and return back to Him. We did not live perfect lives in the premortal existence, as we know from Satan rebelling against God.

[quote]12.Dark skin is a curse from God, the result of our sin, or the sin of our ancestors. If sufficiently righteous, a dark-skinned person will become light-skinned.[/quote]

This is speculation and not based on doctrine or the scriptures.

[quote]13.The Garden of Eden was in Missouri. All humanity before the Great Flood lived in the western hemisphere. The Ark transported Noah and the other survivors to the eastern hemisphere. (Garden of Eden was in Missouri???)[/quote]

Joseph Smith believed the Garden of Eden was in Missouri. This does not mean all humanity were over here prior to the Flood, etc. When Adam was cast out of the Garden, he could have been set down in the Middle East.

[quote]15.Christ will not return to earth in any year that has seen a rainbow.[/quote]

This is something Joseph Smith once stated in Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, but is not a doctrine of the Church.

[quote]16.The sun receives its light from the star Kolob. (where is this Kolob anyway)[/quote]

This comes from the Book of Abraham. It may be that this was Abraham's understanding of his day. It may be that Kolob was an early star in the Big Bang, and the Sun was created later from its dust, etc.

[quote]17.A righteous Mormon will actually see the face of God in the Mormon temple.[/quote]

A righteous member MAY see the face of God in the temple. It is not a requirement.

[quote]18.You can identify a false angel by the color of his hair, or by offering to shake his hand.[/quote]

The hair is a speculative thing. The shaking of the hand was taught by Joseph Smith in the D&C, so as to assist the members to recognize false spirits, who seek to deceive.

Don't believe half of what you read from an Ex-mormon and be doubtful of the other half. They write things to distort and scare people away from the Church. In the Ten Commandments, God commanded us: Thou Shalt Not Lie. Well, many anti-Mormons believe they are doing God a service by lying about us.
:pope:

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#19 prisonchaplain

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 11:07 AM

[quote name='MissSpider'][FONT="Arial"][SIZE="2"][SIZE="3"]hi there
im a new member of the church . i used to be a protestant , but i have not gone to church for a while, until i met the mormon missionary , and now im covert to mormon church. i love God and Jesus Christ. i love mormon and happy to be mormon.
i was reading a lot of debate about Mormon as a true church or not. so as i want to become missionary in the future and i want to be able to answer all the question in the debate that Mormon is the true chuch. and i found this ex-mormon website. so i read... and i found something that is trouble me.

are this true? is mormon really teaching like this?[/quote]

I'm still a Protestant, but I've tried to learn what LDS believe from LDS people, rather than disgruntled former members. Without pretending to be an expert, I'll give my impressions on these.

[quote]1.God was once a man like us. (wait a sec how can God used to be a man?)[/quote]

This may be the biggest hurdle for knowledgeable Protestants to overcome. The belief comes from a rather famous quote of a former LDS leader. It's one of those ideas that may come as close to be official doctrine as possible without actually being official doctrine. In light of the doctrine that some faithful followers will be exalted to godhood, this teaching, though difficult for traditional Christians, does seem to fit with LDS theology.

(Please correct me if my impression is wrong on this one!)

[quote]2.God lives on a planet near the star Kolob. (what?!)
3.God ("Heavenly Father") has at least one wife, our "Mother in Heaven," but she is so holy that we are not to discuss her nor pray to her. (okay i can accept this one)
4.Jesus was married. (No way)[/quote]

These three are all speculative. Many members here will agree, though the ideas are not official doctrine, and would never be used to measure an LDS person's orthodoxy. They do make nice shock statements for enemies of your church though.

[quote]5.We can become like God and rule over our own universe. (i know we can be gods,but ruling our own universe is different thing)
6.There are many gods, ruling over their own worlds.[/quote]

My understanding is that these two MOSTLY are representative of LDS teachings, though there is some speculation mixed in. Exaltation of the most faithful is to a kind of godhood. This troubles knowledgeable traditional Christians. However, we also teach that we will gain "glorified bodies," and that we will see and understand as Jesus does. The difference is that traditionalists, like myself, have not one iota of expectation that we will achieve actual godhood.

[quote]7.Jesus Christ was conceived by God the Father by having sex with Mary, who was temporarily his wife. (God was having sex with Mary ???!!!)[/quote]

This is a sensationalized wording of a teaching that the Father came to Mary and she became pregnant. There is a notorious documentary done on LDS that presents this in a very bad light. My sense is that most LDS are highly offended when non-members ask about this, because it seems to paint the Father in a very bad light. I am convinced, as a non-member, that whatever the official doctrine, and whatever the speculation, no faithful members believe that the Father did anything that was based in sin. However Jesus was conceived, it was holy, sacred, and righteous. So, I'd dismiss this question.

[quote]8.We should not pray to Jesus, nor try to feel a personal relationship with him.[/quote]

This seems to be an over-stated opinion. The preference is to pray to the Father. My sense is that most Protestants, though we often say, "Jesus help me," default to praying to the Father, in Jesus' name.

[quote]10.In the highest degree of the celestial kingdom some men will have more than one wife. (what! so why do we need to seal for)[/quote]

Maybe it's just me, but I find polygamy to be a non-issue. It existed in the Old Testament, though never seemed to be God's best for us. My guess is that many members speculate that polygamy will be commonplace in the eternal kingdom. Again, how often is this taught in your weekly classes? My guess is, almost never.

[quote]11.Before coming to this earth we lived as spirits in a "pre-existence", during which we were tested; our position in this life (whether born to Mormons or savages, or in America or Africa) is our reward or punishment for our obedience in that life. (but arenot we have a perfect/pure life before we come to earth???)[/quote]

Check lds.org on this. It's largely a true assessment of LDS teaching, as far as I know. This is a huge disagreement between us traditionalists and LDS--is matter eternal or does it have a start point? Did God create the world "out of nothing," or did He fashion it from existant matter? Traditionalists, like myself, believe that God spoke matter into existence at the creation event. LDS teaching is that God fashioned existing material into the world we now know.

My sense is that this doctrine fits in with the idea of God progressing from manhood to his current deified state, as well as to the idea that people can become gods. If God created out of nothing, it makes sense that only He is God, and it will always be that way. If we pre-existed as spiritual beings, and have our own eternal nature, then the idea of us becoming gods seems more possible.

(Again, others correct me if I am mistating...)

[quote]12.Dark skin is a curse from God, the result of our sin, or the sin of our ancestors. If sufficiently righteous, a dark-skinned person will become light-skinned.[/quote]

These statements come from speculative thoughts, some by early LDS leaders. My own take is that they had erroneous ideas that were common to 19th century America. We'd likely be embarrassed by some of the justifications Protestant ministers preached concerning the institution of slavery in our country. Can leaders, products of their time and culture, be wrong in some of their opinions, and still be anointed of God to the roles they fulfill?

[quote]13.The Garden of Eden was in Missouri. All humanity before the Great Flood lived in the western hemisphere. The Ark transported Noah and the other survivors to the eastern hemisphere. (Garden of Eden was in Missouri???)[/quote]

Missouri is considered to have some sacred land in LDS teaching. It is believed, so I've read, that Jesus will return to there. Not sure about the rest...

[quote]15.Christ will not return to earth in any year that has seen a rainbow.
16.The sun receives its light from the star Kolob. (where is this Kolob anyway)
17.A righteous Mormon will actually see the face of God in the Mormon temple.
18.You can identify a false angel by the color of his hair, or by offering to shake his hand.[/quote]

I've never heard about these last four in the six plus years I've enjoyed interacctions at this site.

Again, I am not a member. The above are impressions and information I've gleaned, mostly from members at this site. I welcome corrections, but thought the OP might find my outsider perspective helpful, since most of the ideas came from more hostile non-members.

"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely." -- Lord Acton


#20 Vort

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 11:16 AM

PC, thanks for your viewpoint. Very valuable. I would nitpick at a couple of things, but I suppose the one that jumps out is the question on premortal existence. I believe that MissSpider was less concerned about the doctrine of premortal existence itself and more concerned that it is used to explain and even justify the unequal conditions we find ourselves living here in mortality. And, in fact, it has been common in the history of the Church to assume (unofficially) that some people are born into this or that state, whether money, privilege, poverty, abuse, various races, or whatever, as a result of premortal choices. My answer would be that there is no "official" doctrine whatsoever that teaches that our mortal state is a reward or punishment for our premortal actions. However, I would also point out that being born a starving, AIDS-infected child in Africa might very well be a much greater blessing (in an eternal sense) than being born into a rich, privileged American "old-money" family. From our perspective, position in life is very chaotically related (in a mathematical sense) to spiritual outcome.
As if anyone could knowingly commit sin without being changed both in spirit, body, and mind. Let me say this again, sin changes who we are! --james12
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Nice hand, friend, but those are not the cards I dealt you.

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Impenetrability! That's what I say!




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