should incorrect teachings be corrected?

[kevieb]

thank you skippy!!! That is the kind of answer i really needed. Whatever was going on with the children in this stake started sometime before we ever moved in--and long before our present stake president. It bothered me very much because I have worked with the children for so much of my adult life and I remembered the scriptures that talk about how much Christ cared about the children, how he told his apostles not to keep the children from him---the story in the BoM where angels came and surrounded the children and such wonderful things were spoken that they could not even be repeated----and the prophesies of how in the last days that wonderful things would come out of the mouths of babes (hope I got most of those relatively right) It just seems to me that Heavenly Father and Christ feel that children are pretty important---especially when we are told to become like children.

This stake made an issue of banning the children because of what they interpreted from the handbook---somewhere, I think the old handbook must have said that no one under 12 could participate in sacrament meeting----I've never seen it, I was only told this---but I had actually seen the part of the handbook that said that children's choirs and family choirs could sing. It seemed they were following the handbook so strictly about one thing and completely ignoring another.

I didn't even go to the stake president to talk about this matter---i was visiting with him about something else, when it came up--and he said he would look it up. It was the same thing the next time I visited with him---I was about to leave, when I remembered to ask him what he had learned.

Our stake seems to try and go by the handbook pretty closely, and the SP seemed to have felt the need to apologize to the stake leaders about having taught them wrong---I was just wondering if it was something that should be passed on to the rest of the members.

Your answer that it was now his job to determine what to do with this information and act on it and my job is to sustain his judgement probably was the best answer to what I was actually asking.

I feel like I have been developing a good enough relationship with my stake president and am becoming much more comfortable when I visit with him that if this is still really bothering me next month, I feel like I can ask him why he did not feel like it was information that needed to be told to the general congregations. With a little better help in understanding things, I feel like I can ask just out of curiosity and not with an attitude of feeling like they should be doing something different.

You have helped me realize that there may be a very good reason that he wanted to make sure the teaching (of our stake leaders) was corrected-----but he did not feel like it needed to be "advertised" as he put it.

Thank you again!!!!

[Guest]

thank you skippy!!! That is the kind of answer i really needed.

Your answer that it was now his job to determine what to do with this information and act on it and my job is to sustain his judgement probably was the best answer to what I was actually asking.

Most of the posts on this thread have said the exact same thing skippy said... even I said the same thing that skippy said...

So, my conclusion is - skippy's communication style is what you respond to.

And here's my Public Service Announcement: Skippy - you are now assigned to be kevieb's Abby. This policy is made for peace and harmony and the general well-being of kevieb and the rest of lds.net.

[pam]

And here's my Public Service Announcement: Skippy - you are now assigned to be kevieb's Abby. This policy is made for peace and harmony and the general well-being of kevieb and the rest of lds.net.

Well in that case, I'll just shut up and let Skippy do the talking.

[classylady]

When I think of my Bishop, Relief Society President, Stake President, etc. I put myself in their shoes. Am I perfect? What if I was called to a position of leadership? These good, wonderful people did not asked to be placed in these positions. They often don't know any more about church policy and procedures than I do. They are just average hard working people who are called into positions of stewardship. Their testimony may not even be stronger than mine. But, they have been given a calling, and with that calling comes stewardship and divine help from above. Some of our leaders may be more in tune with hearing that inspiration than others. I don't fault them for it. Every one of our leaders come into their callings with their own personal strengths and weaknesses. The Lord is using them as a tool to help further His work. These wonderful men and women are usually trying to do their best with their own limitations and understanding.

I don't understand why so many in the church are so quick to judge and find fault with the leadership. At any time, any one of us could be called into a position of leadership. Are we perfect? Do we know everything? Are we always in tune with the Spirit? If we aren't, then why should they? Many have the same problems that we have. I'm grateful they have accepted their calls to serve. It is not easy.

[skippy740]

Sometimes people don't like it when I talk.

http://www.lds.net/forums/marriage-relationship-advice/50985-returned.html#post722295

See post #13.

Language is a tool that is used for manipulation. That manipulation can be for good or evil purposes.

Usually, when I post, my desire is to get a reaction of some kind. To get others to THINK and CLARIFY what is going on in their own mind.

Sometimes, it's good. Sometimes it's not.

Sometimes I'll ask a question to get that other person to think... and then expound on the way we probably SHOULD think. It's then up to the person I'm responding to, to interpret it for themselves.

I didn't post anything different than what anyone else did... but I think I was the only one to offer a potential solution for a 5th Sunday lesson.

[Guest]

Sometimes people don't like it when I talk.

http://www.lds.net/forums/marriage-relationship-advice/50985-returned.html#post722295

See post #13.

Language is a tool that is used for manipulation. That manipulation can be for good or evil purposes.

Usually, when I post, my desire is to get a reaction of some kind. To get others to THINK and CLARIFY what is going on in their own mind.

Sometimes, it's good. Sometimes it's not.

Sometimes I'll ask a question to get that other person to think... and then expound on the way we probably SHOULD think. It's then up to the person I'm responding to, to interpret it for themselves.

I didn't post anything different than what anyone else did... but I think I was the only one to offer a potential solution for a 5th Sunday lesson.

Oh well... stop being extremely insensitive then!

[pam]

Oh well... stop being extremely insensitive then!

You tell him.

[Magen_Avot]

kevieb, I once saw things much like you,... about different things, but issues with leaders, or how I thought things should be... based on doctrine and the handbook. Certain events led me to a crisis of testimony,... no, actually, I led myself to a crisis of testimony, my attitudes... well, whatever they were. It's a long story, but what happened led me to the Lord and I experienced something that changed my life forever. I received the most precious treasure I could have ever imagined. I will keep that to myself, but I will share with you something I feel is very important.

Love them. Give everyone of them every bit of forgiveness that you, yourself desire through the Atonement. Love yourself. Give yourself every bit the opportunity to be forgiven by your Savior. Whether or not it is deserved is the Lords decision, not yours nor mine. Take this to the Father and work to change your heart and attitudes to match His will,... not yours. In the end you will discover, it. just. does. not. matter. Not in any way you think. You and your testimony are far more valuable to you and others around you than any real... or perceived issue. Love Him. Live for Him. If needed, then die for Him. The path is "narrow" and there isn't any room for this.

If you've ever come across any of my posts then you will see a distinct change. I do know how you are seeing things. The path is His, the steps are yours to take.

Added: That said, there was nothing wrong with speaking with the SP to provide some insight to how things might be made better. I was not commenting on that, but just how much you seemed bothered and progressing toward a crisis of testimony.

I hope I have helped in some way.

Blessings always.

Edited January 7, 2013 by Magen_Avot
spelling

[kevieb]

maureen---my original intention for my question was meant to be more general---and NO I am no longer questioning my stake president. I obviously just have an extremely hard time putting on paper (typing) what I am trying to say.

skippy---i realize that people said similar things---but you said it in a way that made more sense---and you didn't accuse me of talking badly about my stake president, like some people did---which I was NOT meaning to do.

All I wanted to know was if this was something that needed to be corrected so that everyone was aware of the changes that had come about and what was considered acceptable in our stake.

Magen---I appreciate your thoughts----I am trying to avoid a crisis of testimony and trying to learn to adjust to a very different style of church leadership than I have been used to.

I ask for everyone's forgiveness for my poor choice of words in asking my question and for being offended by some replies and for striking out when I felt offended---I will try and improve-----and i sure wish i could condense my thoughts into shorter sentences.........

[Vort]

The title of my thread was, "should incorrect teachings be corrected?" And the answer to that question is what I am seeking---not a judgement of what someone "thinks" I may or may not be spending my time thinking about. Please don't assume something about me because I am trying to figure out what is right and what is wrong.

Yes, incorrect doctrine should be corrected.

I respect your recognition of your own struggles for your testimony, and I admire your efforts to humble yourself. Keep up the good fight and don't back down.

You now find yourself in a difficult position, which will test your humility. You find yourself (apparently) in a position where you have "caught" your leaders with their pants down. They are almost certainly embarrassed at their own ignorance and are trying to figure out how best to deal with it. At this point, your duty is clear: You are to step back and allow them to handle it however they see fit.

Now, they might not do a very good job. They might make a hash of things. They might actually compound their mistakes (though I doubt it). They might try to wallpaper over what happened so as to spare people's feelings and, in their view, the respect of the membership for their leaders. You may not agree with such tactics; I don't. But that is not your concern. You brought up a point, and your leader found out you were right. So far, you have done your duty. Now your duty is to step back and keep quiet.

If this sounds harsh, I am sorry. I don't mean it that way. I am perhaps personalizing and internalizing what you write a bit too much, but one of the great and difficult lessons I learned at around missionary age was when to keep my mouth shut and let my leaders lead, however wrong I thought they were. It was painful, but very, very useful. It taught me to view my leaders as brothers and fellow Saints in our mortal sojourn, and that I should not feel personally betrayed when they mess up, any more than Sister So-and-so has a right to feel personally betrayed by me because I don't always live up to my own covenants and responsibilities. Look, I have stuff I'm dealing with in my life. That does not excuse my failure to home teach when I should, but I hope for patience and long-suffering, not for the widow Jones to excoriate me to the bishop or the Savior because I missed a month in visiting her. In the same manner, I should seek to forgive my leaders of their imperfections and try all the harder to sustain them in their difficult callings.

EDIT: Looks like I'm a day late to the conversation, or at least a dollar short. I'll leave my comments for whatever good they may do.

Edited January 8, 2013 by Vort

[missionary0204]

*I quit reading after the first two pages.

I have definately read over posts where people do come across as cruel or insensitive. I see a poster or two in this thread. I am probably guilty myself, but I actually appreciate everyones comments (most of the time) and really mean it.

Whether they are right or wrong is not my point. I remember a proverb that I would like to share. To paraphrase Proverbs 9:8; "Rebuke a wise man and he will love you, rebuke not a foolish man for he will hate you." I try to analyze what everyone says and personalize it to see if there is any truth to their "attack." I know that if I get upset or offended by a post, then I may miss out on an opportunity to grow myself.

I would add my voice to say that your SP did the right thing by acknowledging his mistake and apolagizing to the leaders in the church. Now the leaders that he spoke with about this subject will either mention it to their ward leaders or apply the information when occasion permits. My bigger concern is actually about your comments of having a shaken testimony. From an outside perspective, I have read nothing that I would think should cause someone to question their testimony. I did not like my first Mission President nor one of my Bishops but I can not deny this Gospel. They did did not alter the doctrine.

I feel confident to say that most everyone who has viewed this thread loves you and wants you to find peace, healing, and growth from your trials even if they come across as inpatient and rude :)

Edited January 8, 2013 by missionary0204
Corrected word in Proverbs quote

[kevieb]

vort--i was actually hoping this post would die with my apology. Skippy's post helped me with the answer i was looking for--but for some reason wasn't able to word correctly.

I'm surprised you think you sounded harsh--but I don't feel like I am in a difficult position---I figure the SP must have some reason for why he made the decision he did. I don't feel like I caught them with their pants down--and i don't think the SP was embarrassed, either, at me having point out something i thought was not right--and him researching it and discovering i WAS right. If you remember, whatever they were doing came about quite a few years before our present SP was in his position.

missionary---thank you for acknowledging that there are some posts where people come across as cruel or insensitive---I have noticed it on other people's threads--not just my own. I do not feel like there was truth in a lot of the attacks that i got----for some reason, many people thought I was trying to speak badly of my stake President, which was not my intention at all.

a few people seemed to have a better understanding of what it was I was trying to ask and answered more appropriately without accusing me of anything. Their answers were gentle and quiet--and not nearly as exciting for others to read as the ones who seemed to attack me, they were loud and accusing and seemed to create a feeding frenzy----and I think just about anyone who found them self in the middle of a shark or wolf attack (just an example) wouldn't just sit back and be eaten alive without putting up a fight---but I apologized for striking back--and that is all i can do. The Lord requires us to forgive others and ask for forgiveness if we have done something wrong---if others choose not to forgive when you ask for forgiveness---then it is on their shoulders.

I don't suppose I will know whether or not those that struck out at me, and i struck back at, will accept my apology or not---but I'm not going to worry about it, either.

As far as my testimony--it's not gone, but when I mentioned it was shaken up a bit--it has to do with much more than what this post was written about--and part of it is just plain old depression, which even the church acknowledges can make it hard to feel the spirit. However, I will tell you, that when a struggling person is seeking answers and trying to keep their testimony from crumbling---having people jump all over them is NOT helpful in the least.

I think I was looking for a support group when i joined this board. i have been on other support group boards and people are very different. I realize, now, that this is not a support group for struggling members--this is a group for LDS people to get together to discuss things, and that is a legitimate type of group forum to have. i just misunderstood what i was joining----my mistake.

I'll try to keep the reason for this board in mind if i choose to remain and start any new threads.

And, I apologize in advance if I said anything wrong---I'm just not the type of person that would purposely say something to make someone angry or hurt their feelings.

Edited January 10, 2013 by kevieb
had to quit to take a child somewhere