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#1 NightSG

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 10:39 PM

Is it just me, or does the 30-through-dead range seem to have a negative impact on attendance by mid singles? At the last stake SA event, the only women there that weren't my mother's age were the ones old enough to be her mother. There was one other guy there about 40, and it was his first (and potentially last) time at one of those too, since he'd also driven quite a ways for what amounted to just another potluck and a bit of music. For myself, I know I'm not looking forward to burning $30 worth of gas to go to the next one, (I'm the ward SA rep, so I'm stuck with it anyway) and a couple of other mid singles in my ward told me they only didn't warn me off of it because they wanted somebody to go and see if it still looked like a night out at the nursing home instead of a chance to find a worthy mate. This has turned them off to the Church singles events so much that even attempts to put together a mid singles event are pretty much doomed. On some of the LDS singles boards, I've heard the same type of comments; that even when someone did find a few people their age at a SA event, they all felt so out of place among the mostly-over-60 crowd that they didn't keep going to events. This seems really counterproductive, since most of the mid crowd still has a few childbearing years left, and for the most part seems to be very motivated to marry (or remarry) while that's still the case. While some find and convert a spouse from outside the Church, it seems equally likely that someone who can't find a mate within the Church will marry outside, especially given the biological time constraints, and either fall away, or struggle with being "unequally yoked."

Edited by NightSG, 24 January 2013 - 10:59 PM.


#2 pam

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 11:09 PM

Sad to know that I'm considered ready for a nursing home. I will be honest. I didn't appreciate the post at all.

#3 BadWolf

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 11:46 PM

This is a culture shock thing for Me'self. In my geographical area... The non-LDS-norm 20s = School / Grad School / start working 30s = focus on career / start dating seriously / marriage by mid to late 30s 40s = start a family I'm the WEIRD one around here in my circles of friends/colleagues (for having married and started my family in my 20's)... Because MOST of them are only JUST STARTING to date seriously. A few are getting married. No one, but me, has kids yet (that is under 40). My friends view me as being single in my early 30s as FINALLY being "normal". Skip into Mormon-Land... And I'm not sure if you meant 30-dead or 30=dead. ;D I've never felt so old and so young at the same time. So. Totally. Weird. Upside... I don't date, so it (30=dead) doesn't affect me personally... But I'm also not feeling like Im missing out on mid-single events. If they were doing FUN stuff? Well, I still wouldn't be dating, but Id certainly regret not being able to attend!!! Currently I get invitations to SA stuff and its a RELIEF not to be dating. Just because its the "mingle in the gym" thing. Which is a suggestion: Stop potlucking. Or, rather, KEEP potlucking (for the older crowd, and those who enjoy it, life takes all kinds!)... But get some active things going as well. You'll still get older people coming (Ive dated 20 years older than myself, before! Just requires like interests), but it will be those physically capable of doing so, or special interest types. - Riverrafting - Rock concerts - Photosafari (local) - Museums - skiing - rock climbing / rappelling - sailing - hiking - treasure hunting - biking - glass blowing Xmas ornament - chocolate tasting - theatre - basketball / baseball / hockey (what have you) - etc. Think events & adventures type. An active Facebook group for planning / gauging interest/ etc. (and so people know 6 coming, 9 maybes, or 75 coming 200 maybes, whatever.) It wouldn't exclude the 60-80 crowd who DO these types of things (half the ski instructors I know are in their 60s&70s and could mop the floor with me! And boating??? Ditto.)... And it gets people of like interests together. It also gets people trying new things, or doing things they feel lame doing on their own. And even if your not meeting someone you want to date... At least you finally got to swing on a trapeze! Or see a Travelling broadway show! Or learn to cook cannoli! Its just something Ive found getting older... Getting together to "do nothing" is for kids. 30+ we usually like to DO stuff! And we're not shy. We'll gab and mingle during breaks, rides, before, after... We don't need to be locked in a room "forced" to talk to each other because there's nothing else going on. Anyhow... Just some culture-shock-thoughts.

#4 beefche

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 07:03 AM

The church is doing more Midsingle activities throughout the US (and I think Canada, but I'm not sure on that). Midsingles range in age from 28-49 (dependong on the area. In my neck of the woods, it is 28-45). If you would like more information on any Midsingle activies in your area, let me know. There are several, SEVERAL, Facebook pages set up for them. And I'm friends with a guy who seems to be the Church's Go To Guy for Midsingle Stuff. Seriously, he knows of any Midsingle stuff in any state (heck, he even knew before I did of some of the stuff going on in my area when I was SA rep over the Midsingles!!!).
I say that we need to teach our people to find their answers in the scriptures...But the unfortunate thing is that so many of us are not reading the scriptures. We do not know what is in them, and therefore we speculate about things that we ought to have found in the scriptures themselves. I think that therein is one of our biggest dangers of today."
--President Harold B. Lee, December, 1972

#5 derblitzenator

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 11:45 AM

The church's SA program doesn't work for midsingles. I have never ever seen a lot of midsingles enthusiastically mingling with the 50+ crowd. If there isn't a MSA program in your area, you can either 1) ask the local and area leadership to start one or 2) move to Utah. Alternatively, you can date online. The choice is yours.

#6 NightSG

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 04:53 PM

Midsingles range in age from 28-49 (dependong on the area. In my neck of the woods, it is 28-45). If you would like more information on any Midsingle activies in your area, let me know.


The problem is that the closest major city is an hour away, in another stake. Even adding Dallas into that, judging by LDSPlanet, it still only opens up a fairly pitiful number of mids. I'm really not inclined to drive 70+ miles each way for an event if it's going to be like that every time, but what I've heard from is that even in Dallas/Fort Worth it's hit and miss for mids.

Of course, the bishop is always enthusiastic and pointing out that there are supposedly several MS women in our ward, but most of them are so inactive that I have yet to find anyone other than the sister missionaries who has ever met them.

I've seen more MS women in Gilbert AZ alone than in the entire state of Texas, and I'm pretty well stuck here since my ex would just love for me to move out of state so she would have the excuse to cut my visitation even more.

Any thoughts for the Weatherford or Abilene stakes?

Edited by NightSG, 25 January 2013 - 04:56 PM.


#7 NightSG

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 06:26 PM

The church's SA program doesn't work for midsingles. I have never ever seen a lot of midsingles enthusiastically mingling with the 50+ crowd. If there isn't a MSA program in your area, you can either 1) ask the local and area leadership to start one or 2) move to Utah. Alternatively, you can date online. The choice is yours.


There's not really a choice, then; the existing MSs have already been scared off, and most of them are completely inactive precisely because it's hard to sit and listen to a constant stream of "you would be so much happier if you were married," then sent to "singles" events apparently just to see how pathetic you can expect to be in 30-40 years, because there's certainly nothing to help you find a mate, and plenty to discourage you from looking outside the Church unless you're already planning to go inactive. Moving isn't an option for me, and most other divorced parents, since it would effectively end what relationship I have managed to maintain with my daughters, and long-distance online dating is a dead end.

#8 derblitzenator

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 10:02 PM

There's not really a choice, then; the existing MSs have already been scared off, and most of them are completely inactive precisely because it's hard to sit and listen to a constant stream of "you would be so much happier if you were married," then sent to "singles" events apparently just to see how pathetic you can expect to be in 30-40 years, because there's certainly nothing to help you find a mate, and plenty to discourage you from looking outside the Church unless you're already planning to go inactive. Moving isn't an option for me, and most other divorced parents, since it would effectively end what relationship I have managed to maintain with my daughters, and long-distance online dating is a dead end.


I realize that it's tough sledding where you're located, but you may need to take drastic measures during your prime dating years if you expect to meet someone. That means attending MSA conferences wherever they may be. A lot of these conferences have a 3:1 girl-guy ratio, so you have numbers on your side. I wouldn't discount online dating even though it's less effective. If they're active on a website, they might be motivated to do long-distance relationships. There seems to be a lot of high quality divorcees that just don't have time to find dates. The other approach is to fly into Utah on weekends once a month and go to as many activities as you can or use Utah's matchmaker to set you up. Flirting to convert is another option. All of the ideas are sub-optimal, but people in worse situations than you have succeeded based on being motivated and taking some risks. You have more control than you think about the outcome of whether you get married again or remain single perpetually.

#9 NightSG

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 01:09 PM

That means attending MSA conferences wherever they may be.


Travelling to the stake center requires a bit of advance planning on my part, thanks to child support eating my budget and having to make sure my ex won't suddenly decide to shuffle the visitation schedule to make that my "take it or wait until next month" visit weekend. The only reason I can do that is because I can change my plans right up until about 2 hours before something at the SC starts. Anything that would require me to be head out Friday night and be gone for the weekend is just too much of a risk.

As an example, my ex emailed my mom around 7:30 last night to say she was going to have the girls in town today, then at 12:30 this afternoon to say that they're too busy for today, but I might get an hour or two tomorrow afternoon. That will probably change too, but I won't miss the chance if it is there. I can't believe she doesn't do it intentionally, (she's not the type to travel even an hour from home without at least a few days of planning) but the courts aren't yet willing to do more than tell her to be more considerate.

#10 derblitzenator

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 03:21 PM

Travelling to the stake center requires a bit of advance planning on my part, thanks to child support eating my budget and having to make sure my ex won't suddenly decide to shuffle the visitation schedule to make that my "take it or wait until next month" visit weekend. The only reason I can do that is because I can change my plans right up until about 2 hours before something at the SC starts. Anything that would require me to be head out Friday night and be gone for the weekend is just too much of a risk.

As an example, my ex emailed my mom around 7:30 last night to say she was going to have the girls in town today, then at 12:30 this afternoon to say that they're too busy for today, but I might get an hour or two tomorrow afternoon. That will probably change too, but I won't miss the chance if it is there. I can't believe she doesn't do it intentionally, (she's not the type to travel even an hour from home without at least a few days of planning) but the courts aren't yet willing to do more than tell her to be more considerate.


You are unable/unwilling to ever leave town on weekends. Since you can't/won't make sacrifices to find someone new, you are resigned to "flirt to convert" unless you can convince some LDS woman to bear 100% of the travel burden to visit you.

#11 pam

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 03:48 PM

You are unable/unwilling to ever leave town on weekends. Since you can't/won't make sacrifices to find someone new, you are resigned to "flirt to convert" unless you can convince some LDS woman to bear 100% of the travel burden to visit you.


You said kind of what I was thinking but I was going to add that there have been suggestions in this thread. But every suggestion has had an excuse as to why it won't work. So I'm not sure what the OP would like anyone to tell him.

#12 classylady

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 04:15 PM

Back in my single days, if I stayed at home, and didn't put myself out there, I didn't date. If you want a relationship, then you need to make yourself available and go where the singles are. And once you meet singles, don't expect others to come and talk to you--you need to be outgoing and friendly. Just wishing for a relationship doesn't make it happen. It takes effort.

#13 derblitzenator

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 04:51 PM

You said kind of what I was thinking but I was going to add that there have been suggestions in this thread. But every suggestion has had an excuse as to why it won't work. So I'm not sure what the OP would like anyone to tell him.


He reminds me of so many other singles who are giving lip service about the desire to marry, yet when pressed about actual strategy and action towards dating their actions don’t match their words even remotely. To succeed, you need to take ownership of your success or failure at dating. You can announce as loudly as you want to the world that you are trying to find a spouse, but until you start making it a priority you are very unlikely to succeed. Elder Dallin H. Oaks summarized it this way in the April 2011 general conference: “Those who are single should desire a temple marriage and exert priority efforts to obtain it.” I can predict exactly where he'll be in 10 years if he continues down the same path of passivity.

I know one guy who took ownership of the MSA program in his stake also in a remote area. He contacted all the less active MSA in his stake and invited them to activities and created a listserve to communicate. Eventually, his efforts paid off when he met a local single LDS woman that showed up to one of his activities. They ended up getting married and he passed the torch of keeping the MSA program alive to someone else. You don't always know what God's plan is for each of us, but I do know that those MSA that put themselves out there and exert priority efforts are much more likely to be blessed with a marriage opportunity than someone who does little to nothing to find someone compatible.

#14 derblitzenator

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 04:52 PM

Back in my single days, if I stayed at home, and didn't put myself out there, I didn't date. If you want a relationship, then you need to make yourself available and go where the singles are. And once you meet singles, don't expect others to come and talk to you--you need to be outgoing and friendly.

Just wishing for a relationship doesn't make it happen. It takes effort.


That pretty much sums up the very important principle of "reaping what you sow."

#15 NightSG

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 05:57 PM

Back in my single days, if I stayed at home, and didn't put myself out there, I didn't date. If you want a relationship, then you need to make yourself available and go where the singles are.


Apparently, what I'm being shown is that the singles available to me aren't in the Church. Giving up what's left of my relationship with my children is not an option.

#16 derblitzenator

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 06:53 PM

Apparently, what I'm being shown is that the singles available to me aren't in the Church. Giving up what's left of my relationship with my children is not an option.


It seems to me that you wanted justification for dating outside the church all along, since you dismissed out of hand all other ideas presented that would allow you to date within the church. To each his own...

#17 NightSG

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 10:07 PM

It seems to me that you wanted justification for dating outside the church all along, since you dismissed out of hand all other ideas presented that would allow you to date within the church. To each his own...


I "dismissed out of hand" all of the ideas that would require a significant risk of impairing or even severing what relationship I still have with my children. I hardly think Elder Oaks intended to imply that the search for a spouse should take priority over spending time with one's children.

#18 classylady

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 10:15 PM

Travelling to the stake center requires a bit of advance planning on my part, thanks to child support eating my budget and having to make sure my ex won't suddenly decide to shuffle the visitation schedule to make that my "take it or wait until next month" visit weekend. The only reason I can do that is because I can change my plans right up until about 2 hours before something at the SC starts. Anything that would require me to be head out Friday night and be gone for the weekend is just too much of a risk.

As an example, my ex emailed my mom around 7:30 last night to say she was going to have the girls in town today, then at 12:30 this afternoon to say that they're too busy for today, but I might get an hour or two tomorrow afternoon. That will probably change too, but I won't miss the chance if it is there. I can't believe she doesn't do it intentionally, (she's not the type to travel even an hour from home without at least a few days of planning) but the courts aren't yet willing to do more than tell her to be more considerate.


Whether LDS or non-LDS, very few women are going to be happy in a relationship where there can be no planning involved, and dates cancelled at the last second because the children are suddenly available. Maybe things in your life need to be stabilized a bit before you start looking for a relationship.

If you should remarry, (whether LDS or non-LDS), your new wife is going to need some stability and continuity. I'm talking of experience here. One of the biggest stressors in the early years of my marriage was the inability to plan around the times when my husband's ex-wife would be picking up the kids. My husband had custody of his two children. His ex thought she could just come unannounced and get the kids. This really created problems in our marriage. I felt he wasn't being as loyal to me as he should be. It got better when the court spelled out the visitation rights. His ex was required to let us know one month in advance when she would be coming to pick up the kids. And it was her responsibility to pick them up and drop them off. I needed the structure of knowing in advance when the children would be gone so we could plan accordingly. I imagine any woman you may meet is going to need something similar to what I needed.

#19 pam

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 10:26 PM

I "dismissed out of hand" all of the ideas that would require a significant risk of impairing or even severing what relationship I still have with my children. I hardly think Elder Oaks intended to imply that the search for a spouse should take priority over spending time with one's children.


I don't think anyone here has said that dating or searching for a spouse should take priority over your kids. Your kids are the most important thing. However, you have made it sound as if the church doesn't do enough or provide enough programs to accommodate your schedule and needs. That's how it is coming across.

#20 derblitzenator

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 11:22 PM

I "dismissed out of hand" all of the ideas that would require a significant risk of impairing or even severing what relationship I still have with my children. I hardly think Elder Oaks intended to imply that the search for a spouse should take priority over spending time with one's children.


The way you are describing it, it sounds as though your ex-wife pretty much controls your life. You stated that you won't risk leaving town for a single weekend and that you can't drive on a whim to the stake center in the off chance that your ex-wife will drop off your daughter. That is pure silliness. I am having a hard time believing that your custody agreement has terms that support such an arrangement. Have you tried talking to your ex-wife about supporting your goal of finding someone else to date in other regions? If she doesn't agree. Lawyer up and get it into the agreement. There are ways to accomplish both priorities if you are motivated.

I did throw out the idea that you can take the lead on organizing MSA activities within your stake boundaries, which you seemed to have dismissed out of hand.




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