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Dynamics of Love


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#1 Bini

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 01:15 PM

I have a friend that is in a good marriage but she can't, or won't, choose her husband over her daughter. I realise this sounds harsh but allow me to try and clarify.. I love my family. My husband and my daughter are everything to me. But my husband knows that when it boils down to it, I will always choose him over anything and everything else in this life. Maybe I'm extreme, it hasn't been the first time, either.


How do the dynamics of love work in your family?

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#2 Wingnut

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 01:19 PM

I guess I'm not understanding. Is there an example scenario you can give us in which your friend is forced to choose between her daughter and her husband? Is it just a matter of taking sides in an argument, or what? A little more information might help add to the discussion a bit.
Now the trouble about trying to make yourself stupider than you really are is that you very often succeed. -- C.S. Lewis

If we're going to be stupid about this, we're going to be stupid on my terms. -- my husband

#3 Bini

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 01:30 PM

I guess I'm not understanding. Is there an example scenario you can give us in which your friend is forced to choose between her daughter and her husband? Is it just a matter of taking sides in an argument, or what? A little more information might help add to the discussion a bit.


No, it's not like picking sides. I'll try to explain better.


If asked: " Do you love your husband more than your daughter?"
She would respond with: "I love them the same."


For me, my love for my husband and for my daughter is not equal. My husband will always be first and I'll always have his back. Though, no scale or chart could depict my love for my daughter, she will know that her father is my everything.


I should note, I'm not referring to dysfunctional relationships.. Like, if the father is abusing a child - you protect the child.

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#4 Vort

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 01:39 PM

I have a friend that is in a good marriage but she can't, or won't, choose her husband over her daughter. I realise this sounds harsh but allow me to try and clarify.. I love my family. My husband and my daughter are everything to me. But my husband knows that when it boils down to it, I will always choose him over anything and everything else in this life. Maybe I'm extreme, it hasn't been the first time, either.

How do the dynamics of love work in your family?


I have never said that I love my wife better than I love my children, or vice versa. I don't think I have, anyway. I doubt I would vocalize such a feeling even if I had it. But my children have known ever since they were little that, with Daddy, Mama comes first. Period. At Church and at meals, we sit beside each other. They are not allowed to sit between us. (I gave up on family prayer; all the kids wanted to kneel by Mama, so I finally raised the white flag on that one.) For us, it's not so much a matter of feeling love as it's a matter of setting priority.

I remember one of my children, while little, said something about how Daddy would save Mama from drowning first, then go back for us. I did not let that go by unchallenged; I happily put up the canard, "No, I would sacrifice myself to save you all." My kids didn't want to let me get away with that, but I refused to back down. It's one thing to establish priorities in the family; it's quite another to suggest to a child that you would let him/her die in preference to his/her other parent. (In fact, that may well be false; I expect that my wife and I would both rather that the other save our children first before saving us, if such a nightmarish Hobson's choice were put to the other. But that's between my wife and me, and I see no benefit to talking with the children about such an unlikely and horrific what-if.)

Edited by Vort, 08 February 2013 - 01:42 PM.

As if anyone could knowingly commit sin without being changed both in spirit, body, and mind. Let me say this again, sin changes who we are! --james12
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#5 Wingnut

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 01:52 PM

I love my husband and my daughters differently, in that they're a different kind of love, but I don't think I love either of them more than the other. I depend on my husband more (and in different ways) than I depend on my girls, but I don't think that it means that I love him more.
Now the trouble about trying to make yourself stupider than you really are is that you very often succeed. -- C.S. Lewis

If we're going to be stupid about this, we're going to be stupid on my terms. -- my husband

#6 Bini

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 01:56 PM

If I were drowning, my husband would rescue our daughter first, and vice versa. Without hesitation, both of us would give our lives for any of our children. But otherwise, hubby will always be my number one, and I'll always be his.


Vort, I agree that you wouldn't come out and tell your kids that you love mama more. I was trying to make a point to my friend that my husband DOES take priority over anything and everything else.

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#7 Bini

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 02:01 PM

I love my husband and my daughters differently, in that they're a different kind of love, but I don't think I love either of them more than the other. I depend on my husband more (and in different ways) than I depend on my girls, but I don't think that it means that I love him more.


Wingnut, that is how my mum always put it. Her love for us kids was different from that of daddy's. I guess I'm just a bit different in that I have no problem telling my husband that I love him more than anything, including, our daughter. Indeed, she is "our" blessing but the kind of love I share with my husband, is the most intense connection I have with anyone.

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#8 Bini

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 02:01 PM

Thanks for sharing guys.

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#9 Anddenex

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 02:42 PM

The dynamics of love, in my family, follow the dynamics of our temple sealing. My wife, is my first priority, and her happiness is my first happiness.

I was reading in one of my journals last night regarding the words of our bishop who interviewed the two of us. He mentioned, how important it was for me to recognize that when I return home from work, that she is my first priority. When I enter the home, whether a meal is cooked, the house clean or a mess, she should be the first person (unless my children as they often do come and give me a big hug once I enter our home) I greet, kiss, and compliment. She also, leaves no room for me to forget, when I come home she is my first priority.

Is my love for them the same? I believe it isn't. Scripture specifies,

“Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.”

and I personally believe this also applies to our children as well. I love my parents, but in no way will my parents interfere with the sealing I have with my wife. I love my children, but in no way will they cleave my wife and I a part.

:)

#10 Wingnut

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 03:08 PM

and I personally believe this also applies to our children as well. I love my parents, but in no way will my parents interfere with the sealing I have with my wife. I love my children, but in no way will they cleave my wife and I a part.

:)


I do think I can accurately say that I love my husband and my daughters more than I love my parents. Not that I don't love them, but that the intensity of my love is nowhere close to the same level as for my (now) immediate family.
Now the trouble about trying to make yourself stupider than you really are is that you very often succeed. -- C.S. Lewis

If we're going to be stupid about this, we're going to be stupid on my terms. -- my husband

#11 Suzie

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 05:24 PM

The way I feel about my husband is just completely different than the way I feel about my children and I cannot think of any situation or circumstance where I should tell my husband that I love him more than our children..What would be the purpose of saying that? or saying that to my children? I don't know, that's not how I feel. My husband is a priority in my life and so are my our children. One isn't above the other.

#12 Bini

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 07:22 PM

For the record, I don't word it: "Honey, just so you know, I love you more than our daughter". That's not what's said. What I do say is: "You know I love you more than anything." That pretty much places him above anyone else in my life. He's my priority and comes first.


Still interesting how everyone views it.

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#13 Argentina84

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 10:59 AM

And what if you love your husband very much, but the love you feel for your children is bigger than the one you feel for your husband? Would that be wrong? I don't see why...
"There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle"

Albert Einstein :shamrock:

#14 Bini

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 09:41 AM

And what if you love your husband very much, but the love you feel for your children is bigger than the one you feel for your husband? Would that be wrong? I don't see why...


Only you can answer that for yourself.


In the grand scheme of things, your spouse is your eternal companion, and should be priority and above all things, including your children and all other people. That's how I see it. I'm not saying I'm right or that anyone who disagrees is wrong but when you boil it down to things.. My husband is it.

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#15 DHK

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 11:14 AM

I think Bini is trying to talk about this in a very neutral way.

But let's take a look at this situation:
- Husband is mad at daughter.
- Husband talks to wife about daughter.
- Wife constantly defends daughter to husband.
- Husband says "It's either her or me."
- Wife says ???

In this case, one should side with the daughter assuming that the daughter is a minor. Children are a legal responsibility of their parents and are entitled to care under the law - either from parents... or the state.

Yes, I'm taking a legalistic point of view... depending on the context of the question.

Formerly known as 'Skippy740'.

 

"But make no mistake about it, brothers and sisters; in the months and years ahead, events will require of each member that he or she decide whether or not he or she will follow the First Presidency. Members will find it more difficult to halt longer between two opinions (see 1 Kings 18:21).  President Marion G. Romney said, many years ago, that he had "never hesitated to follow the counsel of the Authorities of the Church even though it crossed my social, professional, or political life" (CR, April 1941, p. 123). This is a hard doctrine, but it is a particularly vital doctrine in a society which is becoming more wicked. In short, brothers and sisters, not being ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ includes not being ashamed of the prophets of Jesus Christ." - Neal A. Maxwell, October 10th, 1978.

 

http://speeches.byu....viewitem&id=909


#16 Vort

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 11:51 AM

I think Bini is trying to talk about this in a very neutral way.

But let's take a look at this situation:
- Husband is mad at daughter.
- Husband talks to wife about daughter.
- Wife constantly defends daughter to husband.
- Husband says "It's either her or me."
- Wife says ???

In this case, one should side with the daughter assuming that the daughter is a minor. Children are a legal responsibility of their parents and are entitled to care under the law - either from parents... or the state.

Yes, I'm taking a legalistic point of view... depending on the context of the question.


I can see many cases where this just does not apply.

"Daddy, can I go to the movie with my friends?"
"No. You didn't finish the work we agreed on, so you can't go out."
"But it's not FAIR! All my friends get to go!"
"Sorry. You didn't get your work finished. You made the decision, and these are the consequences."
...
"Mama, can I go to the movies with my friends?"
"I don't see why not. Have a good time, dear."
"Thanks!"
"Now wait a minute, Wifey. I told our daughter she could not go out because she didn't finish her work."
"Oh, pooh. Quit being such a stick in the mud. Like you were never sixteen."
"Um, Wifey...that's not really the point."
"Point, shmoint. Enjoy the movie, sweetheart."
"No, you WON'T enjoy the movie. I said you couldn't go."
"But Mama said I could!"


In such a case, it really does not matter whether Daddy is right or wrong. Mama should be supporting him. Period.
As if anyone could knowingly commit sin without being changed both in spirit, body, and mind. Let me say this again, sin changes who we are! --james12
***********************
Nice hand, friend, but those are not the cards I dealt you.

***********************
Impenetrability! That's what I say!

#17 DHK

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 11:57 AM

True. It does depend on the topic of the controversy in the household.

Let's just say that this was a real conversation that happened while I was growing up... and it wasn't about the movies or any frivolous activities.

Formerly known as 'Skippy740'.

 

"But make no mistake about it, brothers and sisters; in the months and years ahead, events will require of each member that he or she decide whether or not he or she will follow the First Presidency. Members will find it more difficult to halt longer between two opinions (see 1 Kings 18:21).  President Marion G. Romney said, many years ago, that he had "never hesitated to follow the counsel of the Authorities of the Church even though it crossed my social, professional, or political life" (CR, April 1941, p. 123). This is a hard doctrine, but it is a particularly vital doctrine in a society which is becoming more wicked. In short, brothers and sisters, not being ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ includes not being ashamed of the prophets of Jesus Christ." - Neal A. Maxwell, October 10th, 1978.

 

http://speeches.byu....viewitem&id=909


#18 Wingnut

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 12:51 PM

I think Bini is trying to talk about this in a very neutral way.

But let's take a look at this situation:
- Husband is mad at daughter.
- Husband talks to wife about daughter.
- Wife constantly defends daughter to husband.
- Husband says "It's either her or me."
- Wife says ???

In this case, one should side with the daughter assuming that the daughter is a minor. Children are a legal responsibility of their parents and are entitled to care under the law - either from parents... or the state.

Yes, I'm taking a legalistic point of view... depending on the context of the question.


If my husband gives me an ultimatum asking me to choose between him and our children, I'm choosing the children. Giving such an ultimatum would be indicative of greater problems, and it would be clear to me that he no longer valued either me or them. I don't think that my husband would be surprised by my response, either.
Now the trouble about trying to make yourself stupider than you really are is that you very often succeed. -- C.S. Lewis

If we're going to be stupid about this, we're going to be stupid on my terms. -- my husband

#19 Anddenex

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 01:25 PM

If my husband gives me an ultimatum asking me to choose between him and our children, I'm choosing the children. Giving such an ultimatum would be indicative of greater problems, and it would be clear to me that he no longer valued either me or them. I don't think that my husband would be surprised by my response, either.


Could the bigger problem be indicative of a spouse not cleaving to their spouse and cleaving to their children instead? ;)

#20 Vort

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 01:28 PM

I admit that I'm a bit put off by the whole discussion. I suppose that fundamentally I agree with Bini: Our spouse should, indeed must, be our top priority. One should never put children ahead of spouse. But in an imperfect, non-ideal world with selfish people acting selfishly, sometimes it is perhaps inevitable.

Sister Vort and I have had our fair share of problems and disagreements, but it has never been the case in 25 years of marriage that one of us has put the children above the spouse. The very idea seems so, I don't know, disloyal, I guess, that I find it distasteful even to contemplate.
As if anyone could knowingly commit sin without being changed both in spirit, body, and mind. Let me say this again, sin changes who we are! --james12
***********************
Nice hand, friend, but those are not the cards I dealt you.

***********************
Impenetrability! That's what I say!




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