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why must we perform ordinances for the dead?

baptisms for the dead ordinances

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#1 cora

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 02:16 AM

i am struggling with this because i feel like it might imply that Heavenly Father would hold someone back from celestial glory if those who were on Earth didn't perform ordinances for them.

would God really do that?

#2 Roseslipper

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 03:19 AM

to answer ur question...I will ask u a question....dont u want your loved ones to have the blessings of the gospel??? or others?????? thats why.....this way all have the opportnity to except the gospel...baptism is an earthly ordinance I believe. Its also to seal families together..Heavenly Father would never hold any one back...Heavenly Father covers it all if its not done now it will be done in the millennium all work will be done..My concern is why are u asking this question???

Helping others have their work done is a service being done for them, its a blessing for them and for you, its missionary work..

When we are in the service of our fellow human bein we are in the service of our God..why wouldnt you want to help others?

#3 cora

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 03:22 AM

i understand the service side of it. i have just always learned that if you don't do these ordinances then you cannot do them after you die. my grandmother has known of all of these ordinances and has never pursued them or refused to do them. does that mean that she cannot still do them after we die? if i don't do them after she dies and she wants to be baptized or sealed after she dies, will heavenly father hold her back because of me? will she have to wait on the living or will she be able to make her own choice? will we be able to live together if she hasn't done them?

it would be impossible for her to do them now since she has alzheimers. but she had 70+ years of knowledge and still never converted or pursued anything. i don't want to think that it's all final.

Edited by cora, 14 March 2013 - 03:28 AM.


#4 cora

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 03:25 AM

When we are in the service of our fellow human bein we are in the service of our God..why wouldnt you want to help others?


i want to help others. but i am trying to understand whether we believe that salvation and celestial glory is dependent on others or we can choose ourself. we can, of course, choose to accept or reject the work someone has done for us. but what if no one does it? what if i had never been baptized? would i have to wait for someone to do it for me or would Heavenly Father let me make that choice on my own?

#5 estradling75

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 06:29 AM

Your confusion is because you don't understand.

Remember this for every commandment God gives, he holds himself responsible for providing a way for that commandment to be fulfilled by the individual. God does not hold us responsible for fulfilling a commands that he has not provided a way for us to do.

Other wise with a commandment like Baptism by one holding the authority of God wouldn't be about our choices, but about how lucky we were to be in a era and location that such authority was present and working. Clearly our salvation will not depend on luck but on choice.

Now the LDS church makes the claim that we know the way God is using to provided the way on the subject of the commandment to be baptized. (Others have to leave it at God will provide)... And now that you see the means you have doubt. But you should doubt not. Because for each individual, God still has the responsibility to provide the way, the weakness of other mortals will not give God an excuse to fail. If necessary the temples will run 24 hours a day 7 days a week, and the Heavens will open with direction and names to do, so that God will fulfill all his words and every child of God will have a chance to have all the things God requires of them.

Leaving it totally in the hands of the individual on what they will choose to do
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#6 cora

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 08:31 AM

thank you for your responses.

i'm actually really sensitive about this and i am trying to understand. so any further answers may i please respectfully ask that people avoid questioning my search or saying that i don't understand? i realize that this is a difficult topic and i am very sensitive about it. i apologize for this request if it is difficult.

i am still confused about whether my grandmother & i will be together after this life. so she will still get the choice after she dies? why or why not?

what if i get married civilly and i do not get married in the temple in this life... will i still get the choice after i die? why or why not?

#7 DHK

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 08:32 AM

Gospel Principles Chapter 45: The Millennium

The Work of the Church during the Millennium

There will be two great works for members of the Church during the Millennium: temple work and missionary work. Temple work involves the ordinances that are necessary for exaltation. These include baptism, the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost, and the temple ordinances—the endowment, temple marriage, and the sealing together of family units.

Many people have died without receiving these ordinances. People on the earth must perform these ordinances for them. This work is now being done in the temples of the Lord. There is too much work to finish before the Millennium begins, so it will be completed during that time. Resurrected beings will help us correct the mistakes we have made in doing research concerning our dead ancestors. They will also help us find the information we need to complete our records. (See Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, comp. Bruce R. McConkie, 3 vols. [1954–56], 2:167, 251–52.)


Formerly known as 'Skippy740'.

 

"But make no mistake about it, brothers and sisters; in the months and years ahead, events will require of each member that he or she decide whether or not he or she will follow the First Presidency. Members will find it more difficult to halt longer between two opinions (see 1 Kings 18:21).  President Marion G. Romney said, many years ago, that he had "never hesitated to follow the counsel of the Authorities of the Church even though it crossed my social, professional, or political life" (CR, April 1941, p. 123). This is a hard doctrine, but it is a particularly vital doctrine in a society which is becoming more wicked. In short, brothers and sisters, not being ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ includes not being ashamed of the prophets of Jesus Christ." - Neal A. Maxwell, October 10th, 1978.

 

http://speeches.byu....viewitem&id=909


#8 annewandering

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 08:48 AM

One of my aunts was very active in the church all her adult life. She held some jobs and was actively working on genealogy and having temple work done.
Apparently she had been in her ward so long no one had bothered to actually see if she was a member because she wasnt.
Why? Well she was afraid of being dunked under the water. When she became quite old someone discovered she had never been baptized. She fought with herself about it and finally decided to do it.
We can NEVER know why someone makes the decisions they make. God does know and He wants us back with Him so I have to believe that He gives us every chance before and after we die. This is the ideal time to get ourselves sorted out but its not the only time.
Now there are reasons we have to have certain ordinances done. We know some of them but I have a feeling we have no capacity at this stage to understand them all. Fortunately God knows and He has made sure we have ways to get them done. Every single ordinance anyone needs can and will be done by or for them if they wish. The ordinances will be taken care of. Sooner would be good since they need some of them to do work they will be wanting to do now instead of waiting. Still it can and will be done eventually. :) I wouldnt worry about your mom. Whatever her reasons while here she will have her opportunities simply because God wants her to succeed.

#9 jerome1232

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 08:53 AM

what if i get married civilly and i do not get married in the temple in this life... will i still get the choice after i die? why or why not?


Questions like that are situational, if for example, you had the opportunity to marry in the temple and you chose to be married civilly, have you not already made your choice?

I think Skippy and estradling answered your question well, if God gives a commandment, He will provide a way for you to keep His commandments. It has been revealed to us that temple work will be completed during the millennium with the assistance of resurrected beings.
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#10 estradling75

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 09:00 AM

I am still confused about whether my grandmother & i will be together after this life. so she will still get the choice after she dies? why or why not?

what if i get married civilly and i do not get married in the temple in this life... will i still get the choice after i die? why or why not?


Unknown... Personal detailed judgement are not ours to make. So we can't tell you what you and your grandmothers status will be.

We can only tell you general principles.

The general principles are that God promises each and everyone of us a chance.

If we squander that chance, we might get another or we might not.

We are here to see if we will follow God. Some times we fail because we didn't get or understand what was required. Other times we fail because we think other things are more important then the will of God. In the end God will know what our chance were and what we did with those chances and judge accordingly
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#11 MsMagnolia

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 10:43 AM

my grandmother has known of all of these ordinances and has never pursued them or refused to do them. does that mean that she cannot still do them after we die? if i don't do them after she dies and she wants to be baptized or sealed after she dies, will heavenly father hold her back because of me? will she have to wait on the living or will she be able to make her own choice? will we be able to live together if she hasn't done them?

it would be impossible for her to do them now since she has alzheimers. but she had 70+ years of knowledge and still never converted or pursued anything. i don't want to think that it's all final.



Gonna try to answer your questions one at a time.

No your Grandmother cannot do her own work after she dies. Someone else will have to stand in proxy for her on earth for the ordinances to be done.
Your second question is kind of an interesting one.
No your grandmother will not be held back because of YOUR choice... only her choices can do that. With that said she has the choice of accepting the ordinances done for her (by whomever does them) Just like everyone else has the choice of choosing to live the Gospel.

Will she have to wait on the living? YES

Will she be able to make her own choice? YES

Will we be able to live together if they are not done?
I don't know. I don't know your personal worthiness or her personal worthiness. I don't know what is going to happen EXACTLY in the hereafter. I do know that we have a LOVING Father in Heaven. He loves us with perfect love. We are his children and he has given us a way for all mankind to return to live with him. That way is through the Atonement of Christ. We have to choose to live the way he has told us to live. In this life and the next.

Your last question can only be answered by Him. Ask him with a sincere heart, having real intent and the truth will be made known unto you. If the first time you do not feel like you get an answer, keep asking. Remember in third Nephi when the Savior came after all the calamities... It took the people at least three times hearing the voice of God to comprehend what he was saying.

I hope I have given you some food for thought.
Mags
WE are the music-makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams,Wandering by lone sea-breakers, And sitting by desolate streams;World-losers and world-forsakers, On whom the pale moon gleams:Yet we are the movers and shakers Of the world for ever, it seems.
Arthur O'Shaughnessy. 1844–1881




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