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Friendships w/ opposite sex


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#1 busfeliz

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 12:05 PM

I posted awhile back on "Feeling Betrayed" because my husband had taken some budoir photos of another woman. We are currently seeing a marriage counselor and trying to work through our issues but still having a very hard time. We are negotiating boundaries right now, which is proving to be a lot harder then expected. I really don't trust his judgement of what is appropriate and what is not. Recently he bought a calendar with pictures of cheerleaders from a local football team. By the worlds standards these photos were not pornographic, but I feel like as members of the chuch we should be held to a higher standard. The girls were wearing short skirts, tube tops, and other very revealing clothes. Am I out of line to ask him to throw it away? We also argue about his friendships with other women. I am having a hard time with him having any interactions with other women. I realize I cannot forbid him to speak to women but at this point I have asked that he not photograph any other women and not to private message them on FaceBook, although he still texts other women. What do healthy, safe relationships with people of the opposite sex look like? Because my husband thinks I am being super controlling.

#2 Eowyn

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 12:23 PM

I think you're being completely reasonable. I and most of my LDS friends do not have friendships with men that don't directly involve our husbands, and I certainly would not be comfortable private messaging a man I am not related to. All conversations with other men are out in the open, and I tell my husband about them.

"Therefore, let us beware of false prophets and false teachers, both men and women, who are self-appointed declarers of the doctrines of the Church and who seek to spread their false gospel and attract followers by sponsoring symposia, books, and journals whose contents challenge fundamental doctrines of the Church. Beware of those who speak and publish in opposition to God’s true prophets and who actively proselyte others with reckless disregard for the eternal well-being of those whom they seduce. Like Nehor and Korihor in the Book of Mormon, they rely on sophistry to deceive and entice others to their views. They “set themselves up for a light unto the world, that they may get gain and praise of the world; but they seek not the welfare of Zion” (2 Ne. 26:29). (Beware of False Prophets and Teachers, supra.)

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#3 NeuroTypical

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 12:28 PM

busfeliz, counseling is good. Maybe it'll help him understand there's a gap between who he says he is, and who he acts like he is. But more importantly, maybe it'll help you understand that you can't make him do or be something he doesn't want to do or be. That can be heartbreaking, but unfortunately that's how it works.
If I were rich, I'd have the time that I lack, to sit in the synagogue and pray.
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That would be the sweetest thing of all.

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If I were a rich man...

#4 busfeliz

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 12:41 PM

maybe it'll help you understand that you can't make him do or be something he doesn't want to do or be. That can be heartbreaking, but unfortunately that's how it works.


He says he will do anything to keep our marriage together, but then everytime I turn around he is doing something else that hurts my feelings, ie: the calender, texting other women, talking to the girl he did the budoir shoot with (he says it was on a purely professional basis, which it could have been; but I would think that he would have enough common sense to not associate with her at all even on a professional level out of respect for me.) He keeps saying, well you never said I couldn't talk to her (I'm thinking, did that really need to be said?) or you didn't tell me that I can't text women at night.

But it's a catch-22 because I can't anticipate all the stupid things he is going to do that are going to hurt me. So am I required to just make general statements like, don't text or talk to other women period. If I did that he would become very upset and say I am taking away everything and trying to control his every move. Which would be true. But I can't trust his judgement. He thinks certain conversations are perfectly ok to have while i would find them very innapropriate. And that is why we keep having issues, because he genuinely feels that he has done nothing wrong (besides the budior photoshoot without my knowledge.) Everything else he does is perfectly safe and normal to him and I am over reacting. So I know he will just hurt me again because he doesn't get it, he doesn't see anything wrong, that's why he does them.

#5 Eowyn

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 12:43 PM

It seems to me he's putting it on your plate to do all the work and taking responsibility for none of it. So you have to identify and snuff out anything that makes you unhappy. . . but when you do, he calls you controlling. Who is being controlling? He should be bending over backwards to earn your trust back.

"Therefore, let us beware of false prophets and false teachers, both men and women, who are self-appointed declarers of the doctrines of the Church and who seek to spread their false gospel and attract followers by sponsoring symposia, books, and journals whose contents challenge fundamental doctrines of the Church. Beware of those who speak and publish in opposition to God’s true prophets and who actively proselyte others with reckless disregard for the eternal well-being of those whom they seduce. Like Nehor and Korihor in the Book of Mormon, they rely on sophistry to deceive and entice others to their views. They “set themselves up for a light unto the world, that they may get gain and praise of the world; but they seek not the welfare of Zion” (2 Ne. 26:29). (Beware of False Prophets and Teachers, supra.)

Elder M Russell Ballard


#6 DHK

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 12:49 PM

D&c 58:26

26 for behold, it is not meet that i should command in all things; for he that is compelled in all things, the same is a slothful and not a wise servant; wherefore he receiveth no reward.


"But make no mistake about it, brothers and sisters; in the months and years ahead, events will require of each member that he or she decide whether or not he or she will follow the First Presidency. Members will find it more difficult to halt longer between two opinions (see 1 Kings 18:21). President Marion G. Romney said, many years ago, that he had "never hesitated to follow the counsel of the Authorities of the Church even though it crossed my social, professional, or political life" (CR, April 1941, p. 123). This is a hard doctrine, but it is a particularly vital doctrine in a society which is becoming more wicked. In short, brothers and sisters, not being ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ includes not being ashamed of the prophets of Jesus Christ." - Neal A. Maxwell, October 10th, 1978.

http://speeches.byu....viewitem&id=909

#7 busfeliz

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 12:50 PM

He keeps saying, "I'm trying but nothing is good enough for you." I don't think I am asking for too much. I just want my husband to take my feelings into consideration before he does things.

#8 MorningStar

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 12:52 PM

It would probably be reasonable if you burned the calendar, but that's just me.

#9 busfeliz

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 12:55 PM

My fear is that, we really just differ in our views of what is appropriate and what is not appropriate so much so that our marriage is destined to be one fight after another. Because he sees no harm in his actions until I get upset. And then he says, "oh wow that's crazy I didn't know that you would be so upset about that. Sorry, I won't do that again." But then a few days later he does something else, not the exact same thing but something along the same lines, because he doesn't see what the big deal is. Am I making any sense?

#10 pam

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 12:55 PM

It would probably be reasonable if you burned the calendar, but that's just me.


Reasonable for her but just opens up another can of worms.

#11 busfeliz

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 01:06 PM

Reasonable for her but just opens up another can of worms.


I agree. And I inquired about the calender in a very civil manner. The rest of the story is that he had already bought this calender (way before any problems at even surfaced) previously and as a promotional thing the cheerleaders devlivered them door to door. This was right after the unauthorized budior photoshoot with another girl so things were very touchy and sensitive around our house...so what does my husband do?

Did he say no I don't want the calender anymore? No because he felt he had ever right to have that calender because there is nothing wrong with it.

Did he say, pleaso don't come over, I will just pick it up later at my convenience. No he didn't.

He told her to come over at a time when he knew I woulnd't be home, so that he wouldn't have to deal with me and my obsessive controlling nature. It just so happened that I came home from work early that day and that's when I saw her giving my husband the calendar.

We had a huge fight about it and he ripped it up and threw it away right in front of me. So a month later when I find the same calender in his tuck, I was a little upset.

Did I yell at him? No I simply asked him why he had another calendar. And told him that it really hurt my feelings that he would go out and buy another one.

But he didn't think there was anything wrong with the calendar in the first place so I know that's why he didn't have any qualms about buying another one. He wants to use it for his business...he owns a Rolling Video Game trailer and he takes his trailer to football games and sometimes the cheerleaders will sign autographs in the trailer after the game. But I don't think that should trump your wifes feelings.

#12 mdfxdb

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 01:18 PM

Bottom line is if you don't want him to have that then he shouldn't have it. You're his wife, sometimes even when we think our spouse is being unreasonable we do things for them to make them comfortable and happy. Your husband knows exactly what he is doing. He accuses you of being controlling because it gives him an outlet to blame when he gets "caught". He hopes that by doing this you will back off. He needs to understand that his decisions effect not only him, but the marriage. Unless he comes to this realization you will continue to have problems. It is a selfish point of view to think that what he does has no effect on you because it's "not a big deal". Unfortunately it is a realization he will have to come to for himself. It will require him to put the marriage first and foremost in his mind and thoughts and actions. He currently isn't there. As far as "friends" with the opposite sex...I'm generally against it 99.9% of the time. There is no space in a marriage for those types of friendships.

Edited by mdfxdb, 26 March 2013 - 01:21 PM.
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#13 busfeliz

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 01:29 PM


As far as "friends" with the opposite sex...I'm generally against it 99.9% of the time. There is no space in a marriage for those types of friendships.


I agree. But he does not. So where do we go from there? Either he gives up the female friends and is unhappy and hard to live with or I say ok have female friends and then I am unhappy and hard to live with.

#14 estradling75

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 01:49 PM

I agree. But he does not. So where do we go from there? Either he gives up the female friends and is unhappy and hard to live with or I say ok have female friends and then I am unhappy and hard to live with.


Either you remain unhappy... Or he matures... Or you work out a compromise.

If you go compromise I would suggest total transparency... If he wants to text and chat and other wise communicate with other women offer him a deal. Tell he can only do so if you have full access to everything. All passwords, all logs and access when ever you feel like.

If it is harmless like he says the total transparency should not be a big deal. However I would expect (and I would suspect that you do to) that the idea of you knowing exactly what he is doing would put a big old damper on anything he does.

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#15 StrawberryFields

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 02:02 PM

Bottom line, he does not respect you. Some therapists would tell you to detach yourself from him each time he does something to hurt you. Carry on like nothing is wrong, but you have your own hobby you are involved with. We can not change the behavior of another, only we can change the way in which we react to their behavior. I'm sorry, you have to deal with that. You might have mentioned it but how long have you been married?
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#16 mdfxdb

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 02:08 PM

I don't suggest compromise. Compromise almost never works in that often times both parties are not happy. You need to come to an arrangement on this where you are both happy. Is this divorce worthy stuff? I don't know, but you can either live with it or you can't. He has to be mature enough to realize this is hurting you. What will transparancy accomplish? If he has something to hide, he will hide it. His attitude on this is just part of a larger issue in your relationship. There is a very wide gap between professional correspondence (I remember your previous thread on him wanting to be a pro photog) and "friends".

#17 The Folk Prophet

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 02:28 PM

Just my opinion as a guy. Every interaction he has with members of the opposite sex should be absolutely and fully with your knowledge, approval, and if possible, presence. The calendar is inappropriate and he shouldn't have it whether you approve or not. You cannot compromise your feelings and your standards. But you can be patient, long-suffering, kind, etc.. You should ALWAYS tell him how you feel. But you should do your best to do so without jealousy, anger, frustration, etc... It is not your job to change him, per se. But it is your right to tell him how you feel in all things. But you need to tell him. Don't expect him to just know. I know it's a catch 22. But as you should know, if you don't, guys are stupid. You need to be consistent and persevere with as much fairness and understanding as you can, but without compromising right and wrong. Shooting a "boudoir" of a woman who is not your wife = wrong Having a calendar of cheerleaders = wrong Meeting/communicating with other women - depends on the context and honesty to you about it But you can't necessarily take a hard line, burn the calendar, spying, angry approach. That is never a solution for anything. Patience, love, meekness, prayer, faith, hope, long-suffering, etc... But always resolute!! That's my take, for what it's worth.

#18 estradling75

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 02:53 PM

I don't suggest compromise. Compromise almost never works in that often times both parties are not happy. You need to come to an arrangement on this where you are both happy. Is this divorce worthy stuff? I don't know, but you can either live with it or you can't.


I wouldn't expect the compromise to work... I would expect the compromise to either wake him up or cut him off at the knees.

He thinks she is being irrational... So she gives him a totally rational plan. He complains he 'didn't know' so shes tell directly what is and is not expected in the plan.

This leads to him complying and the interaction with the other females losing any illicit appeal and her acquiring facts on his behavior which she can further use to define what is acceptable thus helping him wake up and gain the understanding he needs.

Or he will try to hide, but that can only hold for so long if she is suppose to have complete access, she will find it eventually and when she does, he will not have any defense because he knew and agreed. He may bluster and rage and throw accusations at her. But then she will know that what ever it is that he gets from them is more important to him then her or their marriage and she can act on that.

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#19 MorningStar

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 07:41 PM

I would positively explode if my husband were doing these things. There would be no compromise. We compromise on household duties, who has the remote control, etc. We don't compromise when it comes to immoral things in our home or having inappropriate conversations/photo sessions/visits from people who stop by in secret.

#20 bytor2112

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 07:48 PM

We compromise on household duties, who has the remote control,


That's where I would have to draw the line....

Edited by bytor2112, 26 March 2013 - 07:59 PM.

We've got nothing to fear...but fear itself?
Not pain, not failure, not fatal tragedy?
Not the faulty units in this mad machinery?
Not the broken contacts in emotional chemistry?




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