Receiving the Second Comforter-Personal Visit From Christ?


Jason_J
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EoG -

Many thanks for your #212 above - I'm sure trying to get that thing to format at all was a Herculean task. ;)

I can generally see what you're getting at here--that me being sealed to my parents doesn't help me unless there's a solid chain going back all the way to a patriarch, which the Church is pretty much on board with. But it really doesn't explain to me why we supposedly need to be sealed back to Joseph Smith specifically, which is what Snuffer states is crucial if we don't want to be burned with the rest of the church.

Because Joseph and Hyrum have been sealed by the Fathers. They have been in his presence and sealed by God himself (most likely). In D&C 76 He sees God. Thus he would give us a direct link back to god through the sealing lineage.

Note he is not just referring to receiving your C&E. We can all be saved from that. BUT he is saying we must ALSO be tied in the priesthood lineage back to God. (I Think)... Thus like the sealing of the families all the way back to Adam... Maybe??

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Peter was Jesus' senior apostle. He headed Jesus' Church after Jesus was crucified. That took place two thousand years ago. I'd say that qualifies as happening "ever before". Two thousand years is a reasonably long time to establish a practice.

because Jesus personally told him. there is a difference there Jesus declares it versus being seniored in.

Please tell me you're not riding that "common consent" hobby horse.

its in D and C so....and isnt Samuel told to give the people what they want when they go pestering him for a king despite the warning that kings would bring horrors to them?

No one has suggested they do. However, children who have dreams and visions are not then authorized to instruct everyone else on truths of the gospel and eternal life, based solely on their dreams and visions.

this presents a bizarre dilemnia. if the vision says go forth and declare My Word...what then? and its not like God has ya know never ever done that before /sarcasm. when the church becomes corrupt The Lord grabs someone else to preach His Word. He will do it again. what this actually appears to mean is if The Lord gives you a dream it wont be outside your authority not to shut up. in essence He wont put you in the presidents place but He will tell you to do other things which might mean going about and preaching the correct doctrine. of course this means authority is what the people grant(common consent) versus of The Lord grants. do not presume to restrict The Lord ability to call leaders by the line senior of apostle.

secondly given your stance you seem to think only prophets have the ability to open the heavens i know this because you would absolutely reject a Jesus, a Joseph Smith, a Moses. people that came from the weirdest of places and preached the true doctrine. dont accept every weird "prophet" but dont universally dismiss them either.

I do remember a portrayal of someone demanding that those called of God and possessing true authority exhibit their power by doing some great miracle as a sign. As I recall, the origin of that demand was, let us say, not a righteous source.

there is a clear difference between "show me a sign" and testing the fruits of a claim. scripture teaches bluntly good fruit bearing trees produce good fruit. bad fruit bearing truits produce bad fruit. asking for a prophet to somehow prove he is a prophet is not bad. asking The Lord if this guy is a prophet is again not bad. crying to heaven and saying SHOW ME A SIGN OR YOU ARE NOT GOD is what is bad. but a prophet will prophecy, revelate, seer, and/or translate. as the roles between all four are defined. Seer and prophet are defined as two different gifts. but a prophet should at least do one or the other. so pondering where these displays of visions and prophecies are is a valid question to a church that claims modern revelation exists. again ive looked to see for any open visitations from heaven to the current 15 GAs and i cant find them. that smells like bad fruit. further more its the latter days much deception will take place and Nephi condemns EVERY church. EVERY.

Those who have ears to hear have been hearing for generations. Those who have no ears to hear will insist that the prophets have been silent.

lets hear about these visions of our leaders then? the fact is every prophet in the scriptures seems to be able to bluntly state I have seen Christ and/or I have had visions and dreams and seen angels. furthermore did The Lord suddenly after giving so much through Joseph Smith grow tired of revelation? where is the new revelation? in D and C it is commanded to write down all revelation. so either there is none or the church leaders are disobeying God. one of the two is happening here and given past prophets werent exactly shy about writing revelation down i cant imagine God suddenly said nope no more revelation.

but again if the 15 GAs are prophesying i want to hear it but i cant find it.

Abinidai and Samuel the Lamanite are two great examples of what you, and I, are trying to get across. NO! a prophet among the Saints who say is also called to be a librarian doesn't have authority to tell Monson how to run the Church but he can definitely tell the Saints they lack or they are faltering.

THIS. Jesus did not overthrow the church He merely tried to teach correct doctrine.

The testimony of Jesus means your a prophet. The testimony of Jesus is your C&E at the minimum. (I have had no witness exactly what yet but for now think its C&E only)

this is also true. but i think we are also trying to establish what THE prophet is although you are correct.

Call for reference. I disbelieve this

Numbers Chapter 12 verse 6

"And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the LORD will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream. "

which is fitting as Moses is foretold by an angel to his mother, samuel is foretold, John the baptist is foretold, joseph smith is foretold, Jesus is foretold....it seems there is a decent amount of prophets that are foretold and usually have some sort of grand vision announcing their arrival. furthermore just because every prophet doesnt have a recorded instance of this does invalidate the point i am making....

1. their visionary announcements just might not be recorded

2. the point of this the prophets of The Lord always come with great power and authority from heaven.

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Finrock,

Exactly. :)

I don't know if its a debate much more but now understanding items were confused about lol.

The church currently has all the keys for salvation needed for us at this time. There will come a time though we will gain a great abundance, and power. Just like Joseph Smith had but for EVERYONE as a community. Currently ALL blessings are available to each individual.

What ordinances and blessings (fullness) are missing are things we can enjoy as a community (like law of consecration). So we can be saved with what we have but we must prepare ourselves to build Zion. Than we will become a society instead of an individual. We do that by doing what Finrock just stated.

Edited by ElectofGod
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I just read this. For those who keep stating denver says we don't have the priesthood or whatever nonesence. Again you have not read all his books.

This talks about the priesthood and what the church contains.

Beloved Enos

50 The Church holds the sealing power as a part of the restoration of all things. Otherwise the Church could not discharge its responsibilities given to her. However, when a man is made a king and priest to the Most High God, he also necessarily must have sealing power to establish his kingdom. For the Church, this power is general, and exercised throughout the world as a part of its mission. For the man, it is given him for the limited purpose of saving his family or kingdom. Joseph commented on three degrees of priesthood: Aaronic, Melchizedek and Patriarchal. We read in TPJS: “The Melchizedek Priesthood holds the right from the eternal God, and not by descent from father and mother; and that priesthood is as eternal as God Himself, having neither beginning of days nor end of life. The 2nd Priesthood is Patriarchal authority. Go to and finish the temple, and God will fill it with power, and you will then receive more knowledge concerning this priesthood. The 3rd is what is called the Levitical Priesthood, consisting of priests to administer in outward ordinances, made without an oath; but the Priesthood of Melchizedek is by an oath and covenant.” (Emphasis added.) The Church possesses and administers all three. Those who have their callings and election made sure also hold all three.

Snuffer Jr., Denver C. (2009-12-24). Beloved Enos (Kindle Locations 1398-1405). . Kindle Edition.

Its pretty clear what Denver is talking about here.

Edited by ElectofGod
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Any supporting evidence regarding the three priesthoods? The oath and covenant of the priesthood mentions "two priesthoods" not three.

Just curious as to what sources one would provided.

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Any supporting evidence regarding the three priesthoods? The oath and covenant of the priesthood mentions "two priesthoods" not three.

Just curious as to what sources one would provided.

Yes I am interested in this too. I will see what I can find. Here is why the confusion in the past few, (20 ish lol) pages.

In the "big picture" there are three levels of priesthood discussed by Joseph Smith. He uses the terms "Aaronic" (which includes Levitical) for one, Melchizedek for another, and Patriarchal for the third. In the D&C there is a revelation stating the church has two priesthoods. (D&C 107: 1.) Since the church claims to possess these two because of Section 107, and since Joseph used the term "Patriarchal Priesthood" to identify a third, I have used this category to explain what is set out in Beloved Enos; then used it further to develop the topics in Passing the Heavenly Gift. (Denver Blog, Fulness of the Priesthood)

The entire book of PTHG he is focusing on this 3rd priesthood. Not the two we are commonly used to in the church. This must be where the confusion comes in.

I will post as I run across stuff on it.

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Yes I am interested in this too. I will see what I can find. Here is why the confusion in the past few, (20 ish lol) pages.

The information I have read on the patriarchal priesthood is just another name for the Melchizedek priesthood however representing the tie the priesthood has to the family, particularly the father.

I have also read where plural marriage is mentioned to be the patriarchal order of marriage, however I have wondered if this simply means those individuals who have entered into a sealing marriage, thus a single marriage would still be defined as the patriarchal order of marriage.

I did a quick search on lds.org for the patriarchal priesthood and was only able to find one reference, but nothing supportive.

Provides food for thoughts.

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Any supporting evidence regarding the three priesthoods? The oath and covenant of the priesthood mentions "two priesthoods" not three.

Just curious as to what sources one would provided.

There is a great scholarly article about the Patriarchal Priesthood and adoptive sealings by Johnathan Stapley here Adoptive Sealing Ritual in Mormonism by Jonathan Stapley :: SSRN

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Patriarchal Priesthood highlights.

There is a priesthood that belongs to the Celestial order, or the final redeemed state which men hope to inherit in the Father's Kingdom. Read Section 76 and you will see these set out as conditions of glory. Then take the conditions and associate a priesthood with each. If you do that, you have a better grasp of the idea of "fullness of the priesthood." (Denver Blog, Fulness of the Priesthood)

there is priesthood which exists, but is not contained within or conferred by the church. It comes from one source - the Father. (Same as before)

Go to and finish the temple, and God will fill it with power, and you will then receive more knowledge concerning this priesthood. (Beloved Enos as quoted in previous comment already)

Commentary on Alma 13:14 by Denver

What is important is that the great events of Melchizedek's time began when people humbled themselves and accepted the teachings of this "high priesthood" holder and were, thereby, saved. Not only saved but also led into a fellowship which eventually turned into a City of Peace, or City of Salem, or Jerusalem, which was taken into heaven.

This prototype was so influential in the thinking of all who followed, that the high priesthood was named after Melchizedek. Even though he held Patriarchal Priesthood with its associated sealing power, he was the one after whom Melchizedek Priesthood was named in the form it was later transmitted which lacked sealing authority. (Again Denver)

Helaman Chapter 10 - The Lord gives Nephi the sealing power

2 And it came to pass that Nephi went his way towards his own house, pondering upon the things which the Lord had shown unto him.

3 And it came to pass as he was thus pondering—being much cast down because of the wickedness of the people of the Nephites, their secret works of darkness, and their murderings, and their plunderings, and all manner of iniquities—and it came to pass as he was thus pondering in his heart, behold, a voice came unto him saying:

4 Blessed art thou, Nephi, for those things which thou hast done; for I have beheld how thou hast with unwearyingness declared the word, which I have given unto thee, unto this people. And thou hast not feared them, and hast not sought thine own life, but hast sought my will, and to keep my commandments.

5 And now, because thou hast done this with such unwearyingness, behold, I will bless thee forever; and I will make thee mighty in word and in deed, in faith and in works; yea, even that all things shall be done unto thee according to thy word, for thou shalt not ask that which is contrary to my will.

6 Behold, thou art Nephi, and I am God. [/color]Behold, I declare it unto thee in the presence of mine angels, that ye shall have power over this people, and shall smite the earth with famine, and with pestilence, and destruction, according to the wickedness of this people.

7 Behold, I give unto you power, that whatsoever ye shall seal on earth shall be sealed in heaven; and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven; and thus shall ye have power among this people.

Here is where it gets confusing again. Here is a summary from another blogger on what Denver wrote. This blogger wrote it up sort of fast so it may contain errors in his thought.

(3) [The term "Patriarchal Priesthood" has been used] to explain what is set out in Beloved Enos; then used [again to] further [] develop the topics in Passing the Heavenly Gift. (Fullness of Priesthood.) Patriarchal Priesthood is not defined in scripture. Joseph made a remark which referred to finishing the Nauvoo Temple, and then going into the Temple and receiving the Patriarchal Priesthood. The most important point is that there is priesthood which exists, but is not contained within or conferred by the church. It comes from one source - the Father. Sealing power is part of Patriarchal Priesthood. (Discussion of 3 Nephi 21: 15-18.) [Patriarchal Priesthood is always] delivered unto men by the calling of His own voice. Jacob was ordained by God to "his holy order" or, in other words, received the same High Priesthood as Melchizedek in the only way it can be received[.] (Nephi's Brother Jacob.) The idea of a "royal priesthood" is apt [because it] captures the idea of nobility, or royalty, or, in other words, a connection with the Family of God. This is because one cannot receive the Lord without also receiving priesthood. (D&C 84: 35.) When the Lord bestows this royalty on the individual, it is through His own voice. (JST-Gen. 14: 29; Discussion of Jacob 5: 71-73.)

[There is a] connection between the existence of the one holding [Patriarchal Priesthood], and a humble people who would accept and follow [correct] teachings. The result of the combination of the two was that God came and dwelt among them. What is important is that the great events of Melchizedek's time began when people humbled themselves and accepted the teachings of this "high priesthood" holder and were, thereby, saved. (Discussion of Alma 13:14.) [All] those who receive the [Patriarchal Priesthood] from the time of Abraham forward become [Abraham's] seed. Therefore they become Abraham's inheritance and posterity, sealed to him as a part of his family. (Discussion of 1 Nephi 14: 1-2.)

To receive [the "Patriarchal Priesthood"], read the Tenth Parable and you will have a description of how it unfolds. The Son is necessarily involved. He is the gatekeeper, who alone decides if the person is going to qualify. Then the Son takes it as His work, or His ministry, to bring a person before the Father. However, the ministry of the Son can take many years, and is designed to cure what is wrong, fix all that is broken, remove all that is impure, in the candidate. Only when the Son can vouch for the individual is he brought before the Father. It is the Father who confers and ordains a man to the highest priesthood. (Discussion of 3 Nephi 21: 15-18.)

[Further,] Joseph had at that very moment [of the First Vision], possession of the highest order of priesthood (D&C 84: 21-22). Despite this, Joseph would be later ordained by John the Baptist to Aaronic Priesthood (JS-H 1: 68-70). Events involving God do not necessarily follow the same time-line as we would expect them to follow. When, however, Joseph received angels, you can know for certain he held priesthood.

I am interested to find the quote about the patriarchal priesthood at nauvoo temple. I had read it as a missionary but don't remember it. I will try to find sources not from Denver.

Edited by ElectofGod
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Beloved Enos

50 The Church holds the sealing power as a part of the restoration of all things. Otherwise the Church could not discharge its responsibilities given to her. However, when a man is made a king and priest to the Most High God, he also necessarily must have sealing power to establish his kingdom. For the Church, this power is general, and exercised throughout the world as a part of its mission. For the man, it is given him for the limited purpose of saving his family or kingdom. Joseph commented on three degrees of priesthood: Aaronic, Melchizedek and Patriarchal. We read in TPJS: “The Melchizedek Priesthood holds the right from the eternal God, and not by descent from father and mother; and that priesthood is as eternal as God Himself, having neither beginning of days nor end of life. The 2nd Priesthood is Patriarchal authority. Go to and finish the temple, and God will fill it with power, and you will then receive more knowledge concerning this priesthood. The 3rd is what is called the Levitical Priesthood, consisting of priests to administer in outward ordinances, made without an oath; but the Priesthood of Melchizedek is by an oath and covenant.” (Emphasis added.) The Church possesses and administers all three. Those who have their callings and election made sure also hold all three.

Snuffer Jr., Denver C. (2009-12-24). Beloved Enos (Kindle Locations 1398-1405). . Kindle Edition.

I love Enos and have been studying his book (only one chapter!). He had so little space to write but truly he spoke volumes. I've been meaning to buy Beloved Enos.

Regarding what I highlighted in red in your quote, I am reminded of some of the very first words in the temple endowment regarding our "anointing." We are only anointed to becomes kings and priests, but no more. I love the symbolism of the endowment and what it represents and the reward that we are promised regarding becoming kings and priests through our "diligence" and "obedience" etc. Once we part the veil, things become much clearer.

Edited by skalenfehl
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Interesting.

Author: Mckinlay, Lynn A.

To Latter-day Saints, the patriarchal order of the priesthood is the organizing power and principle of celestial family life. It is the ultimate and ideal form of government. It answers the query of Elder Parley P. Pratt: "Who can endure to be forever banished and separated from father, mother, wife, children and every kindred affection and from every family tie?" (Pratt, Utah Genealogical and Historical Magazine 23 [Apr. 1932]:59).

In The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints there are two priesthood divisions: the Aaronic and the Melchizedek. The highest order of the Melchizedek Priesthood is patriarchal authority. The order was divinely established with father Adam and mother Eve. They are the fount and progenitors of all living, and they will appear at the culmination of earth's history at the head of the whole sealed family of the redeemed. The promises given to Abraham and Sarah pertain to this same order.

Three principles underlie the patriarchal order. First, the primal parents of the race were in their paradisiacal state in Eden united in eternal bonds before death entered their lives. Second, the fall of man and the continual source of degeneration in this world have resulted in the estrangement of parents from God, from each other, and from their children. Third, the healing of this broken harmony is the essence of eternal life, as is the perpetuation of powers of creation and procreation-eternal increase.

The patriarchal order is, in the words of Elder James E. Talmage, a condition where "woman shares with man the blessings of the Priesthood," where husband and wife minister, "seeing and understanding alike, and cooperating to the full in the government of their family kingdom" (Young Woman's Journal 25 [Oct. 1914]:602-603). A man cannot hold this priesthood without a wife, and a woman cannot share the blessings of this priesthood without a husband, sealed in the temple.

Concerning patriarchal authority, the Prophet Joseph Smith admonished the Saints: "Go to and finish the [Nauvoo] temple, and God will fill it with power, and you will then receive more knowledge concerning this priesthood" (TPJS, p. 323, cf. D&C 107:18, 20). This priesthood and its associated powers were introduced in Nauvoo, Illinois, in 1843. It was first conferred upon the First Presidency, the apostles, and their wives (WJS, pp. 244-45).

Today dedicated husbands and wives enter this order in the temple in a covenant with God. The blessings of this priesthood is given only to husbands and wives together. Their covenants extend beyond this life (D&C 76:59, 60), beyond death (D&C 132:20-24), and into the resurrection, to eternal lives, the eternal giving and receiving of life.

Thus united, they work in love, faith, and harmony for the glorification of their family. If they are not united in obedient love, if they are not one, they are not of the Lord. Eventually, through this order, families will be linked in indissoluble bonds all the way back to the first parents, and all the way forward to the last child born into this world. This priesthood order will be both the means and the end of reconciliation, redemption, peace, joy, and eternal life. LYNN A. MCKINLAY

Patriarchal Order of the Priesthood - The Encyclopedia of Mormonism

The nauvoo was the one never completed right?

Edited by ElectofGod
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In The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints there are two priesthood divisions: the Aaronic and the Melchizedek. The highest order of the Melchizedek Priesthood is patriarchal authority.

This makes much more sense to me then calling it a third priesthood, the highest order of the Melchizedek Priesthood, appears more correct to me seeing we have the highest order within the Celestial kingdom.

Thanks.

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I just read this. For those who keep stating denver says we don't have the priesthood or whatever nonesence. Again you have not read all his books.

This talks about the priesthood and what the church contains.

Its pretty clear what Denver is talking about here.

But, EoG, Snuffer says in other works that the Saints were brought under condemnation for their failure to timely complete the Nauvoo Temple, and for the slipshod means of construction applied thereto. Under the bare text of the Smith quote provided here, Snuffer can't have it both ways. Either the Church was promised the patriarchal priesthood, satisfactorily completed the Nauvoo temple, and received it; or it failed to live up to the promise and those sealing keys--if we ever had them--died with Smith.

Snuffer himself has said that his earlier works were written with the presupposition that the Church is what it claims to be. But as of 2011-2013, he seems to get awfully squishy on that particular issue.

Moreover, if you pull the full quote from TPJS, it turns out that Snuffer has omitted quite a lot--including this little gem:

What was the power of Melchizedek? 'Twas not the Priesthood of Aaron which administers in outward ordinances, and the offering of sacrifices. Those holding the fulness of the Melchizedek Priesthood are kings and priests of the Most High God, holding the keys of power and blessings. In fact, that Priesthood is a perfect law of theocracy, and stands as God to give laws to the people, administering endless lives to the sons and daughters of Adam.

Snuffer's interpretation raises more questions than it answers.

And, a caution: This preoccupation with the "patriarchal" order as a third branch of the priesthood, is a common FLDS meme standing for the proposition that the priesthood operates independently of the institutional LDS Church. If you really want to dig into that, you might want to take a look at this site (maintained by a practicing, mainline Mormon). If the names "Joseph Musser" and "Lorin Woolley" sound familiar to you, it may be because Snuffer has openly cited to both of them (Google either name in conjunction with Snuffer's).

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But, EoG, Snuffer says in other works that the Saints were brought under condemnation for their failure to timely complete the Nauvoo Temple, and for the slipshod means of construction applied thereto. Under the bare text of the Smith quote provided here, Snuffer can't have it both ways. Either the Church was promised the patriarchal priesthood, satisfactorily completed the Nauvoo temple, and received it; or it failed to live up to the promise and those sealing keys--if we ever had them--died with Smith.

Snuffer himself has said that his earlier works were written with the presupposition that the Church is what it claims to be. But as of 2011-2013, he seems to get awfully squishy on that particular issue.

Moreover, if you pull the full quote from TPJS, it turns out that Snuffer has omitted quite a lot--including this little gem:

Snuffer's interpretation raises more questions than it answers.

And, a caution: This preoccupation with the "patriarchal" order as a third branch of the priesthood, is a common FLDS meme standing for the proposition that the priesthood operates independently of the institutional LDS Church. If you really want to dig into that, you might want to take a look at this site (maintained by a practicing, mainline Mormon). If the names "Joseph Musser" and "Lorin Woolley" sound familiar to you, it may be because Snuffer has openly cited to both of them (Google either name in conjunction with Snuffer's).

Yes. It does appear so. I even get a little confused on his context. He does name the highest order of the MP the Patriarchal priesthood though he does state they are the same. He uses it just for naming purposes.

I actually find there are some truths openly taught in the break off branches of the LDS church that are not public in our church since the early days. Of course there is much twisting of the truth too but if someone is comfortable enough in the spirit showing truth some major profound thoughts can be opened up. D&C says that about the apocrypha as well. That is why the Lord told Joseph not to translate them, "let them who have the spirit hear" (paraphrase).

It is really quite amazing to think of how much truth we don't have. How many orders are greater than the CK? Infinite? Probably. I wonder if there are greater orders of prietshood or if the power reaches a point where you have it all? Or is power increased with dominion? Do they go hand in hand? In a spiritual order (Gods without number, one higher than the next) not a "elemental" (earth) order.

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And, a caution: This preoccupation with the "patriarchal" order as a third branch of the priesthood, is a common FLDS meme standing for the proposition that the priesthood operates independently of the institutional LDS Church. If you really want to dig into that, you might want to take a look at this site (maintained by a practicing, mainline Mormon). If the names "Joseph Musser" and "Lorin Woolley" sound familiar to you, it may be because Snuffer has openly cited to both of them (Google either name in conjunction with Snuffer's).

Hey, I looked at this sight and I was wondering if I could take that image of line of authority and photoshop it to slide my family in there somewhere. :)

It sure would make it easier than having to go through the whole issue of mortal probation and enduring to the end etc...

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The fullness of the Patriarchal Order is to be endowed from on High. To receive the ordinances of exaltation in the temple

Because the order of Heaven is Patriarchal; the endowment is patriarchal in nature. The ordinances to make us a A first born@ unto God, worthy to Inherit A all that the father hath@ to be A encircled about eternally in the arms of his love@ and through the ritual embrace receive the fullness of the Patriarchal power as we are given the A blessings of the fathers@ , A the covenant of Abraham@ the great Patriarch: the Priesthood, Posterity, and Inheritance. (Abr. 2:9-11).

This is what Denver stated over and over again.

Burton, ed., We Believe, Temples

Why have temples? They are built by the tithing and sacrifice of the Lord's people; they are dedicated and given to him; they become his earthly houses; in them the mysteries of the kingdom are revealed; in them the pure in heart see God; in them men are sealed up unto eternal lifeC all to the end that man may become as his Maker, and live and reign forever in the heavenly Jerusalem, as part of the general assembly and Church of the Firstborn, where God and Christ are the judge of all. Of temples the Lord says: "Therein are the keys of the holy priesthood ordained, that you may receive honor and glory." In them, he says, his saints shall receive washing, anointing, baptisms, revelation, oracles, conversations, statutes, judgment, endowments, and sealings. In them are held solemn assemblies. In them the fulness of the priesthood is received and the patriarchal order conferred upon men. In them the family unit is made eternal. Because of them life eternal is available. With temples men can be exalted; without them there is no exaltation (D&C 124:28-40; 131:1-4; 132:1-33). (The Mortal Messiah, 1:99) TLDP:675-76

Encyclopedia of Mormonism, Vol.1, CHURCH OF THE FIRSTBORN

Revelations to the Prophet Joseph Smith supplement those of the New Testament to indicate that the Church of the Firstborn consists of those who have the inheritance of the Firstborn and become joint-heirs with Christ in receiving all that the Father has (Rom. 8:14-17; D&C 84:33-38; see Heirs of God). The Lord said, "If you keep my commandments you shall receive of his fulness, and be glorified in me as I am in the Father; Y IY am the Firstborn; Y And all those who are begotten through me are partakers of the glory of the same, and are the Church of the Firstborn" (D&C 93:20-22). The Church of the Firstborn is the divine patriarchal order in its eternal form. Building the priesthood family order on this earth by receiving sealings in the temple is a preparation and foundation for this blessing in eternity (see Gospel of Abraham).

Soo many more quotes explaining what it is. I really like this site. I wonder if its anti or not. I think it has accurate quotes.

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Ok who is BH Roberts? Is he trust worthy? I just ran into this site. I swear Denver took half his quotes from this site. It seems like direct quotes here on half the things I posted. He isn't the one who was ex'ed was he?

He was a great man. I finished his biography by Truman Madsen last year

https://byustudies.byu.edu/showtitle.aspx?title=7496

Check out some of his doctrinal writings. They are pretty good.

B. H. Roberts, "The Immortality of Man"

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I actually find there are some truths openly taught in the break off branches of the LDS church that are not public in our church since the early days. Of course there is much twisting of the truth too but if someone is comfortable enough in the spirit showing truth some major profound thoughts can be opened up.

No.

No, no, and NO.

Your quest for the greater things is blinding you to the basics. Good tree = good fruit. Bad tree = bad fruit. Bad tree ≠ good fruit.

There's a reason I called some of Snuffer's assertions "spiritual pornography".

Edited by Just_A_Guy
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