Receiving the Second Comforter-Personal Visit From Christ?

[skalenfehl]

Most faithful latter-day would say that they look forward to the day when they stand in the physical presence of God. Most believe that it will happen after the final judgement when they gain the Celestial Kingdom and enter into their exaltation. Because that it when they think they we become the kind of person that can stand the 'weight' of Celestial glory.

However the restriction on when this happens isn't in the timing, it is in the becoming. Scriptures show that people can and have reached this point while in their mortal life. We can too if we meet the same requirements

Perfect.

[ElectofGod]

To answer the OP question. I quoted a few sources. I can track more, or actual sources to study if you are interested.

If people are skeptical of reading denvers words about it than I would recommend John Pontius Following the Light of Christ into his presence, ALSO read Josephs Smiths words and the Book of Mormons or modern day prophets. Each story in the book of mormon talks about "rending the veil of unbelief" as a poster mentioned. Why put that in there if its not for us? McConkie was a major apostle who always talked about receiving this blessing.

Infact here is what Bednar said to learn something new: Take a highlighter, go read the book of mormon all the way through, highlight every time someone talks about seeing Christ. Learn the steps for yourself

The words of the prophet Joseph Smith book has quote after quote after quote after quote after quote about the 2nd comforter. Its a blessing for all and should be saught after. Lorenzo snow talked about it in Lesson 5 The grand destiny of the saints student manual published by the church. The temple is symbolic of us receiving this blessing in our lives in THIS LIFE.

Its more achievable than most believe it to be. But that is between you and the Lord.

Related Messages from General Authorities

The Prophet Joseph Smith:

"After a person has faith in Christ, repents of his sins, and is baptized for the remission of his sins and receives the Holy Ghost, ... then let him continue to humble himself before God, hungering and thirsting after righteousness, and living by every word of God, and the Lord will soon say unto him, Son, thou shalt be exalted. When the Lord has thoroughly proved him, and finds that the man is determined to serve Him at all hazards, then the man will find his calling and his election made sure" (Joseph Smith, History of the Church, p. 380; emphasis added).

Elder Bruce R. McConkie, “How to Get Personal Revelation” (http://www.lds.org/new-era/1980/06/how-to-get-personal-revelation):

“I would like to touch upon some spiritual realities ... each individual member of the Church can come to know of the divinity of the work, can have the whisperings of the Spirit in his heart and soul, and in addition, can see visions, entertain angels, behold the face of the Lord, and receive all the knowledge and wisdom that has been poured out upon faithful people in any age.

“As a people, we are in the habit of saying that we believe in latter-day revelation. We announce quite boldly that the heavens have been opened, that God has spoken in our day, that angels have ministered to men, that there have been visions and revelations, and that no gift or grace possessed by the ancients has been withheld—it has all been revealed anew in our day.

“But, ordinarily, when we talk in this way, we are thinking of Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, or Spencer W. Kimball. We are thinking of apostles and prophets—men who are called, selected, or foreordained to hold the positions that they hold and to do the ministerial service that is theirs. ...

“But what I desire to point attention to is the fact that revelation is not restricted to the prophet of God on earth. The visions of eternity are not reserved for Apostles—they are not reserved for the General Authorities. ... any individual who abides the law that entitles him to get revelation can know exactly and precisely what President Kimball knows, can entertain angels just as well as Joseph Smith entertained them, and can be in tune in full measure with all of the things of the Spirit. ... Now I say that we are entitled to revelation. I say that every member of the Church, independent and irrespective of any position that he may hold, is entitled to get revelation from the Holy Ghost; he is entitled to entertain angels; he is entitled to view the visions of eternity; and if we would like to go the full measure, he is entitled to see God the same way that any prophet in literal and actual reality has seen the face of Deity.” (Elder Bruce R. McConkie, “How to Get Personal Revelation,” New Era magazine, June 1980; emphases added.)

President Dieter F. Uchtdorf, “Your Potential, Your Privilege” (http://www.lds.org/general-conference/2011/04/your-potential-your-privilege):

“There once was a man whose lifelong dream was to board a cruise ship and sail the Mediterranean Sea. He dreamed of walking the streets of Rome, Athens, and Istanbul. He saved every penny until he had enough for his passage. Since money was tight, he brought an extra suitcase filled with cans of beans, boxes of crackers, and bags of powdered lemonade, and that is what he lived on every day. He would have loved to take part in the many activities offered on the ship—working out in the gym, playing miniature golf, and swimming in the pool. He envied those who went to movies, shows, and cultural presentations. And, oh, how he yearned for only a taste of the amazing food he saw on the ship—every meal appeared to be a feast! But the man wanted to spend so very little money that he didn’t participate in any of these. He was able to see the cities he had longed to visit, but for the most part of the journey, he stayed in his cabin and ate only his humble food. On the last day of the cruise, a crew member asked him which of the farewell parties he would be attending. It was then that the man learned that not only the farewell party but almost everything on board the cruise ship—the food, the entertainment, all the activities—had been included in the price of his ticket. Too late the man realized that he had been living far beneath his privileges.” (President Dieter F. Uchtdorf, “Your Potential, Your Privilege,” General Conference, April 2011; emphasis added.)

Here is a fun little video that was made to illustrate President Uchtdorf’s parable about the man who was living far beneath his privileges on the cruise ship:

Your Potential, Your Privileges (Mormon Messages Video)

Mormon Messages

The other Comforter spoken of is a subject of great interest & perhaps understood by few of this generation, After a person hath faith in Christ, repents of his sins & is Baptized for the remission of his sins & received the Holy Ghost (by the laying on of hands) which is the first Comforter then let him continue to humble himself before God, hungering & thirsting after Righteousness. & living by every word of God & the Lord will soon say unto him Son thou shalt be exalted. 11 &c When the Lord has thoroughly proved him & finds that the man is determined to serve him at all hazard. then the man will find his calling & Election made sure 12 then it will be his privilege to receive the other Comforter which the Lord hath promised the saints as is recorded in the testimony of St John in the XIV ch from the 12th to the 27 verses Note the 16. 17. 18. 21. 23. verses. (16.vs) & I will pray the father & he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever; (17) Even the Spirit of Truth; 13 whom the world cannot receive because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him; but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you & shall be in you. 14 (18) I will not leave you comfortless. I will come to you (21) He that hath my commandments & keepeth them, he it is that loveth me. & he that loveth me shall be loved of my father. & I will love him & will manifest myself to him (23) If a man Love me he will keep my words. & my Father will love him. & we will come unto him, & make our abode with him.

Now what is this other Comforter? It is no more or less than the Lord Jesus Christ himself & this is the sum & substance of the whole matter, that when any man obtains this last Comforter he

will have the personage of Jesus Christ to attend him or appear unto him from time to time. & even he will manifest the Father unto him & they will take up their abode with him, & the visions of the heavens will be opened unto him & the Lord will teach him face to face & he may have a perfect knowledge of the mysteries of the kingdom of God, & this is the state & place the Ancient Saints arrived at when they had such glorious vision Isaiah, Ezekiel, John upon the Isle of Patmos, St Paul in the third heavens, & all the Saints who held communion with the general Assembly & Church of the First Born &c. 15

Widtsoe, John A.; Whitney, Orson F.; Roberts, B. H.; Smith, Joseph Fielding; Smith, Joseph; Ehat, Andrew; Smith, Lucy Mack; Cannon, George Q.; Taylor, John (2012-02-25). Words of Joseph Smith - Deluxe Study Edition including the LDS Standar Works, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Lectures on Faith, History of the Church, History of Joseph by His Mother, and More (Kindle Locations 273-290). Packard Technologies. Kindle Edition.

Last I will quote McConkie in his very powerful and inspiring conference talk. Read it! Refer to the talk here: The Purifying Power of Gethsemane

Now, the atonement of Christ is the most basic and fundamental doctrine of the gospel, and it is the least understood of all our revealed truths.

Many of us have a superficial knowledge and rely upon the Lord and his goodness to see us through the trials and perils of life.

But if we are to have faith like Enoch and Elijah we must believe what they believed, know what they knew, and live as they lived.

May I invite you to join with me in gaining a sound and sure knowledge of the Atonement.

We must cast aside the philosophies of men and the wisdom of the wise and hearken to that Spirit which is given to us to guide us into all truth.

We must search the scriptures, accepting them as the mind and will and voice of the Lord and the very power of God unto salvation.

As we read, ponder, and pray, there will come into our minds a view of the three gardens of God—the Garden of Eden, the Garden of Gethsemane, and the Garden of the Empty Tomb where Jesus appeared to Mary Magdalene.

More sources:

Calling and Election: BYU compilation of quotes

10. Joseph Smith’s Inspired Commentary on the Doctrine of Calling and Election | Religious Studies Center

Edited April 25, 2013 by ElectofGod

[Vort]

Is there anyone on this thread who claims that the doctrine of having one's calling and election made sure is false, irrelevant, or unattainable?

[ElectofGod]

Book of Mormon:

Ether 4:13-15

13 Come unto me, O ye Gentiles, and I will show unto you the greater things, the knowledge which is hid up because of unbelief.

14 Come unto me, O ye house of Israel, and it shall be made manifest unto you how great things the Father hath laid up for you, from the foundation of the world; and it hath not come unto you, because of unbelief.

15 Behold, when ye shall rend that veil of unbelief which doth cause you to remain in your awful state of wickedness, and hardness of heart, and blindness of mind, then shall the great and marvelous things which have been hid up from the foundation of the world from you-yea, when ye shall call upon the Father in my name, with a broken heart and a contrite spirit, then shall ye know that the Father hath remembered the covenant which he made unto your fathers, O house of Israel.

Joseph Smith

"At ten a.m. preached from 2nd Peter, 1st chapter and showed that knowledge is power; and the man who has the most knowledge has the greatest power. Salvation means a man's being placed beyond the power of all his enemies. The more sure word of prophecy means a man's knowing that he is sealed up into eternal life by revelation and the spirit of prophecy, through the power of the holy priesthood. It is impossible for a man to be saved in ignorance."

In all ages past, when the fulness of the gospel has been present on the earth with the Lord's people, prophets have sought to prepare the people to be brought back into God's presence during mortality so that a Zion society would emerge in which the Lord could dwell freely among them. The prophet Enoch sought for this for his people and succeeded (Moses 7:16-19). The prophet Melchizedek sought for this for his people and also succeeded (JST, Genesis 14:33-34). Moses also sought this for the children of Israel as directed by the Lord (Exodus 19:10-11, 16-17), taught them plainly what was needed, and sought diligently to sanctify his people so that they would be able to behold the face of God in mortality (D&C 84:22-24; Exodus 29:42-46), but most of them did not accept the blessing that was offered (Exodus 20:18-19), although some of them did (Exodus 24:9-11). The same purpose exists in the current gospel dispensation (D&C 109:5; D&C 45:66-67; 1 Nephi 10:19) as established through Joseph Smith, and he and other prophets and apostles have taught these principles extensively.

"Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God"..

This be attitude references Psalms 24:3-6 by the savior... (he was quoting this part of psalms)

3 Who shall ascend into the hill of the LORD? [Go to the temple of God and receive these things] or who shall stand in his holy place?

4 He that hath clean hands, and a pure heart; who hath not lifted up his soul unto vanity, nor sworn deceitfully.

5 He shall receive the blessing from the LORD, and righteousness from the God of his salvation.

6 This is the generation of them that seek him, that seek thy face, O Jacob. Selah.

Edited April 25, 2013 by ElectofGod

[ElectofGod]

Is there anyone on this thread who claims that the doctrine of having one's calling and election made sure is false, irrelevant, or unattainable?

:lol:

Not me. I think it is by all. I don't have it yet but whats available to the greatest is "available to the weakest"...

irrelevant: Well I say no but all things will come naturally to those who are obedient.

You do not have to know what THESE things ARE to receive them. They are given to those who BECOME and ASK (as spirit directs!). (my opinion)

Edited April 25, 2013 by ElectofGod

[Just_A_Guy]

Is there anyone on this thread who claims that the doctrine of having one's calling and election made sure is false, irrelevant, or unattainable?

[Apologies to Jason_J; I can only respond that thread-drift happens]: I think what some are skeptical of is the cult of personality that seems to get built up around one or two authors who have made this issue their hobby horse.

The fact that so many people conflate the doctrine with the hobby-horseman, as I said in my initial post to this thread, is troubling.

[james12]

No doubt most active members believe some people receive their calling and election made sure. But here is my question. Must any person who wishes to obtain the highest degree in the celestial kingdom receive their calling and election made sure before the final resurrection? In other words, must I receive my calling and election in this life or the spirit world if I want to be exalted?

[ElectofGod]

Just_A_Guy that statement is pretty true. "conflate" because the few men who are open about it.

Denver Snuffer is no Samuel the Lamanite, either; and quite honestly it triggers little alarm bells for me that his readers would even make such a comparison. People managed to get their calling and elections made sure, and even (ulp!) to get the temple ordinances associated with that blessing, long before Denver Snuffer signed his first book deal.

Yup. I knew of it before I ever heard of John Pontius or Denver

As to the underlying topic: I guess the question I keep asking myself is, "what would I do with a visit from the Savior, if I had one?" At this stage in my spiritual journey I have a hard enough time conforming to the first principles and ordinances. To my detriment, if the Savior offered what Snuffer offers at this point in time then I - like Peter of old - would be forced to say "depart from me, O Lord, for I am a sinful man."

We should be asking ourselves where are we on the Journey back to heavenly father? The 5 Laws of the endowment... Which one are we to be working on? Most members haven't havent even gotten past "Baptism by Fire", or the "Change of Heart" stage.

Seems to me that the blessing we ought to be seeking in this life (in the short term, anyways) isn't the Second Comforter -- Jesus is not an acrobat who puts on shows for those willing to pay the price of admission. Rather, the blessing we should be seeking is, as Peter himself taught, to make our calling and election sure. If I can get myself to that point, I trust that in time the Savior will reveal Himself to me in whatever way He deems appropriate.

Great point. I do find that looking at the SC step has helped me have greater motivation to BECOME something better but you do have to take a step back and say. Where am I and how can I get to the next Step.

The point isn't to make a personal visitation happen. The point is to be living in such a way that we have become the kind of people to whom it could happen.

How many of us are even at the stage of "ministering of angels" or believe in it. How many are receiving personal revelation through the spirit, angels, dreams, visions? These things are a stepping stone.

I say the most important step is to "recognize the spirit", "learn to obey it in all things", "yield to it"... If we do that than everything else will fall into place. I do find my learning though has helped me do this.

[mikbone]

I have a few comments and recommendations.

First, read and study Ether chapters 3 & 4. It is the best scriptural representation of what a calling and election actually is:

Some of my insights into the first half of Ether chapter 3: http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/19807-what-type-body-did-jehovah-show-unto-brother-jared.html

Second, The book the second comforter is a fine book. In which I didn't find any apostate material within. I have heard reports about Denver Snuffer writing questionable commentary in a blog or something but haven't bothered to research it myself. Actually one important message that I personally got from reading the book was the importance of home teaching. Home teaching probably is just as important if not more important for the teacher than for his families. We must fulfill our callings and current responisbilities before the Lord will give us further light and understanding.

Thridly, The first rule of C&E Club is: You do not talk about C&E Club. The second rule of C&E Club is: You do not talk about C&E Club.

Edited April 25, 2013 by mikbone

[Vort]

No doubt most active members believe some people receive their calling and election made sure. But here is my question. Must any person who wishes to obtain the highest degree in the celestial kingdom receive their calling and election made sure before the final resurrection? In other words, must I receive my calling and election in this life or the spirit world if I want to be exalted?

Yes, I think so. All who will gain eternal life must first, at some point, gain the promise of eternal life. If one has not gained that promise by the time of his or her resurrection, I don't see that the act of resurrection itself will make any difference.

[Vort]

[Apologies to Jason_J; I can only respond that thread-drift happens]: I think what some are skeptical of is the cult of personality that seems to get built up around one or two authors who have made this issue their hobby horse.

The fact that so many people conflate the doctrine with the hobby-horseman, as I said in my initial post to this thread, is troubling.

I agree. Several of the responses to the anti-Snuffer-cult-feel posts seemed to be saying that Snuffer is irrelevant and that the only point was the truths he was teaching. I haven't seen anyone in this discussion questioning those particular points of doctrine, though, so I'm not sure what the point is other than to laud Denver Snuffer.

[ElectofGod]

No doubt most active members believe some people receive their calling and election made sure. But here is my question. Must any person who wishes to obtain the highest degree in the celestial kingdom receive their calling and election made sure before the final resurrection? In other words, must I receive my calling and election in this life or the spirit world if I want to be exalted?

Requirement for Celestial Beings

D&C 76:62 These shall dwell in the presence of God and his Christ forever and ever.

Requirement for Terrestial Beings

76:77 These are they who receive of the presence of the Son, but not of the fulness of the Father.

C&E is to state "one will be exalted"

mikbone: Where is those rules written besides Fight club

Edited April 25, 2013 by ElectofGod

[james12]

Yes, I think so. All who will gain eternal life must first, at some point, gain the promise of eternal life. If one has not gained that promise by the time of his or her resurrection, I don't see that the act of resurrection itself will make any difference.

I agree. There is a lot I still need to attain and I must say I feel some urgency about the matter.

[Vort]

C&E is to state "one has become exalted"

Not so. My understanding is that having one's calling and election made sure is a promise of exaltation and eternal life, not the actual exaltation. Otherwise, no one could have that ordinance done in this life.

[mikbone]

mikbone: Where is those rules written besides Fight club

I can neither confirm nor deny an appropriate response to that question. Thank You.

[ElectofGod]

Not so. My understanding is that having one's calling and election made sure is a promise of exaltation and eternal life, not the actual exaltation. Otherwise, no one could have that ordinance done in this life.

oops, typo. You are right. "shall be exalted".

[james12]

Requirement for Celestial Beings

D&C 76:62 These shall dwell in the presence of God and his Christ forever and ever.

Requirement for Terrestial Beings

76:77 These are they who receive of the presence of the Son, but not of the fulness of the Father.

C&E is to state "one has become exalted"

I hesitate to post this because of the secred nature of the topic but, do you think then that one needs to not only be visited by the Second Comforter but recieve his fullness? In other words must we come into the presence of God the Father and behold his glory in order to obtain the highest degree in the Celestial kingdom? Joseph says, "and we beheld the glory of the Son, on the right hand of the father, and received of his fulness" (D&C 76:20).

[applepansy]

I respect your decision, but I have yet to read anywhere that he has made such a declaration. He is no more above President Monson than Samuel the Lamanite was above Nephi. I am not here to defend him either. He can speak for himself. Let every latter-day Saint choose for himself. Denver takes everything that Moses, Isaiah, Nephi, Joseph Smith and our Savior (to name a few) taught and put them all together to shed light on doctrine, which is simply ignored because it is outside of most everyone's paradigm or at least outside the scope of the first principles and ordinances of the gospel. But there are many more. And only one dispensational prophet was able to successfully teach his people who did NOT reject his message. His name was Enoch.

The comment that made me very uncomfortable was on his website. I will see if I can find it later tonight, but I think it was referenced on the other thread.

[ElectofGod]

I hesitate to post this because of the secred nature of the topic but, do you think then that one needs to not only be visited by the Second Comforter but recieve his fullness? In other words must we come into the presence of God the Father and behold his glory in order to obtain the highest degree in the Celestial kingdom? Joseph says, "and we beheld the glory of the Son, on the right hand of the father, and received of his fulness" (D&C 76:20).

I probably won't post much on here but will post scriptures. Will not answer that directly. If you want more PM me. I can probably direct you to some sources. If you notice right after/before that in 76 he sees outter darkness. Why is that? What was the Lord preparing them for? There are quite a few blog posts on this question.

Ask the Lord he will show you by the spirit what the Truth is.

Its a great question!

D&C 88:28 They who are of a celestial aspirit shall receive the same bbody which was a natural body; even ye shall receive your bodies, and your cglory shall be that glory by which your bodies are quickened.

29 Ye who are quickened by a portion of the bcelestial glory shall then receive of the same, even a fulness.

30 And they who are quickened by a portion of the aterrestrial glory shall then receive of the same, even a fulness.

31 And also they who are quickened by a portion of the telestial glory shall then receive of the same, even a fulness.

32 And they who remain shall also be quickened; nevertheless, they shall return again to their own place, to enjoy that which they are willing to receive, because they were not willing to enjoy that which they might have received.

Find out what receiving his fullness means.

Edited April 26, 2013 by ElectofGod

[ElectofGod]

I just connected something I have not before.

President Benson stated.

The book of mormon contains the “fulness of the gospel of Jesus Christ” (D&C 20:9). That does not mean it contains every teaching, every doctrine ever revealed. Rather, it means that in the Book of Mormon we will find the fulness of those doctrines required for our salvation.

If its in the Book of Mormon it is required for our salvation. Study it. Find the answers

I am guilty of not doing this as I should.

Edited April 26, 2013 by ElectofGod

[Jason_J]

OK I'm back (just had a 2 hour ward conference call ).

Still going through the comments on this thread. I guess it's okay if we discuss Snuffer (and John Pontius? Does he have similar views as Snuffer? I have his book as well, but haven't read it), just don't want it to be solely about these personalities.

In my 2 years as a member, I guess I haven't heard much about receiving the Second Comforter in this life. The doctrine is certainly there, as we see. I think this is a somewhat uniquely LDS belief. I find this concept very interesting, for obvious reasons, as well as the fact that it seems like some members believe that the days of miraculous manifestations, Heavenly visitations, etc are very rare, if they happen at all (I had this conversation awhile ago with a friend. And I think other posters alluded to this earlier in the thread, or maybe it was another thread I read). I do think it is interesting to view scripture as recordings of those that have received visitations from God, and that many if not most of them have examples that we can follow, and that the Church, its ordinances, the commandments, the repeated emphasis on prayer and scripture study, etc., all relate to encountering the Divine in various ways, such as through the Spirit, and the Second Comforter.

I think that having your calling and election made sure, and the Second Comforter, are two areas that I haven't really known much about in my time as a member, though I have heard the former taught before.

[ElectofGod]

OK I'm back (just had a 2 hour ward conference call ).

Still going through the comments on this thread. I guess it's okay if we discuss Snuffer (and John Pontius? Does he have similar views as Snuffer? I have his book as well, but haven't read it), just don't want it to be solely about these personalities.

In my 2 years as a member, I guess I haven't heard much about receiving the Second Comforter in this life. The doctrine is certainly there, as we see. I think this is a somewhat uniquely LDS belief. I find this concept very interesting, for obvious reasons, as well as the fact that it seems like some members believe that the days of miraculous manifestations, Heavenly visitations, etc are very rare, if they happen at all (I had this conversation awhile ago with a friend. And I think other posters alluded to this earlier in the thread, or maybe it was another thread I read). I do think it is interesting to view scripture as recordings of those that have received visitations from God, and that many if not most of them have examples that we can follow, and that the Church, its ordinances, the commandments, the repeated emphasis on prayer and scripture study, etc., all relate to encountering the Divine in various ways, such as through the Spirit, and the Second Comforter.

I think that having your calling and election made sure, and the Second Comforter, are two areas that I haven't really known much about in my time as a member, though I have heard the former taught before.

Pontius is a lot more "conservative" in his writing. He is not as open as Denver. But they agree for the most part. There are older writers who have written the same things.

What I have noticed, once you learn the journey you have to take to receive your c&E/SC, is that the modern prophets seem to focus on a step of that Journey.

Ever notice how Bednar always talks about DOING, or Conversion, Change of Heart, Baptism of Fire? That is the major step on the journey. If we don't get to that step there is no point shooting for the end goal. Bednar is a very good teacher and knows if he can teach others to learn themselves, govern themselves, the rest will fall into place.

It is talked in conference almost every conference. They are just usually stated in a small paragraph. Haight has come out in conference and stated he saw Christ. Holland focuses on turning to Christ. Following him and angels a lot.

The more you learn the better you will be able to "spot what they are saying" and why they are saying something. The purpose of the prophet/apostles is to teach nothing but repentance unto a wicked generation. We have the book of mormon, we should learn the "meat" as paul puts it ourself.

Edited April 26, 2013 by ElectofGod

[tumbledquartz]

Thanks for bringing this subject up. I remember a religion teacher at BYU once telling us that the Second Comforter and having your calling and election made sure and being visited by Christ are pretty much all the same thing. It's been a while, though, and I don't have quotes, so I'm not sure, but that's what I've been thinking as I read this thread. I also seem to remember him reading a quote that said we should have "getting our calling and election made sure" at the top of our priority list and be actively working toward it.

[tumbledquartz]

It is the privilege of all those who have made their calling and election sure to see God; to talk with him face to face; to commune with him on a personal basis from time to time. These are the ones upon whom the Lord sends the Second Comforter.

I did a search and came up with this quote, which seems to be saying what I said above, if not exactly at least in spirit. It looks like it is a quote from Bruce R. McConkie. I got it from the following website, which has a lot of great info. for anyone wanting to read more about the topic: Calling & Election Made Sure

[skalenfehl]

Thanks for bringing this subject up. I remember a religion teacher at BYU once telling us that the Second Comforter and having your calling and election made sure and being visited by Christ are pretty much all the same thing. It's been a while, though, and I don't have quotes, so I'm not sure, but that's what I've been thinking as I read this thread. I also seem to remember him reading a quote that said we should have "getting our calling and election made sure" at the top of our priority list and be actively working toward it.

C&E and 2nd Comforter are not the same principle/event. One does, however lead to the other. There are quite a few principles and ordinances of the gospel beyond that of the first four, which we are all too familiar. Further into our progress is anointing, endowment, ministering of (being taught by) angels , power in the priesthood, calling & election, receiving Second Comforter, being "endowed" from on high, Translation, Resurrection, etc.

This is the path to Zion (and 144,000), whether unto ourselves or physically (Enoch).

This entire process or path to Zion/membership of the church of the Firstborn ("fullness" of the gospel/"fullness" of the Father) is a process of sanctification. Most members' paradigm ends at the temple endowment, which as I mentioned earlier is only a similitude of a very real path back into our Savior's embrace. It is to become a wise virgin; a tame fruit (Jacob 7), entering into His rest while still in mortality, membership in the church of Enoch/Firstborn.

This is what the Lord offered the Israelites through Moses and the early saints through Joseph Smith--to establish Zion in all its power and glory on the earth. It is what He offered to Enoch in the Old Testament and because they received him, they received Jehovah. And He walked with them and taught them the higher principles unto translation.

Now can each member today truly expand their paradigm such that their faith is sufficient to experience great miracles, wonders, ministering of angels, moving mountains, turning rivers from their course, defeating worldly armies, etc? This is what our Savior has offered to us, his covenant people since the beginning.

3 Nephi 10:4 O ye people of these great cities which have fallen, who are descendants of Jacob, yea, who are of the house of Israel, how oft have I gathered you as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and have nourished you.

5 And again, how oft would I have gathered you as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, yea, O ye people of the house of Israel, who have fallen; yea, O ye people of the house of Israel, ye that dwell at Jerusalem, as ye that have fallen; yea, how oft would I have gathered you as a hen gathereth her chickens, and ye would not.

6 O ye house of Israel whom I have spared, how oft will I gather you as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, if ye will repent and return unto me with full purpose of heart.

7 But if not, O house of Israel, the places of your dwellings shall become desolate until the time of the fulfilling of the covenant to your fathers.

Soon, very soon, Zion will triumph. And only those who have diligently heeded the words contained in the New covenant will abide the day.