Doctrinal And Scriptural Mastery

[Seminarysnoozer]

This scripture has provided valuable insight to me about how and why we study the scriptures. I think Traveler helped me to see it quite a number of months ago. Jesus here is talking to the Jewish rulers who are well versed in scripture.

The question is, do we come unto him? Is the Father's word in us? If so, our study has not been in vain. But some can study and search the scriptures and not be drawn to the Son. For all their studying they are actually further from him.

Yes, that is a great scripture. They thought eternal life was obtained by knowing the scriptures well. But it isn't, it is in coming to the Lord, wherever and however the testimony is given. Some, it might be through reading scriptures, others it might be by listening to the testimony of others, for others it may be by praying. But for all it has to be done by first humbling one self and seeking through faith. The scripture you gave, to me, says the reason for them not coming to the Lord is that they did not first believe. If one searches the scriptures and studies without first humbling their self, and believing then it is in vain. If one goes to the scriptures for a sign or to prove a belief then it is in vain.

That is why the word "ignorance" (as in 'cannot be saved in ignorance') has to be defined as it is in D&C 136. It is ignorance to the influences of the spirit not "ignorance" in a general sense or as to the ability to quote scripture or understand historical facts.

Edited October 18, 2013 by Seminarysnoozer

[Vort]

Talk about cross referencing scriptures, the "ignorance" spoken of in the verse you gave references to D&C 136:"32 Let him that is ignorant learn wisdom by humbling himself and calling upon the Lord his God, that his eyes may be opened that he may see, and his ears opened that he may hear; 33 For my Spirit is sent forth into the world to enlighten the humble and contrite, and to the condemnation of the ungodly."

That ignorance is in reference to being ignorant of the spiritual influences we can have in this life if we are humble and contrite and asking in prayer. That kind of ignorance is when a person is blinded to the spirit and only depends on secular learning. One can be brilliant to the ways of men but be ignorant to the spirit. The scriptures and the doctrine are there to help us depend more on the Lord and recognize the spirit.

Actually, I have long believed the ignorance spoken of in D&C 132:6 refers back to the previous verse:

The more sure word of prophecy means a man’s knowing that he is sealed up unto eternal life, by revelation and the spirit of prophecy, through the power of the Holy Priesthood.

I believe this is synonymous with the Biblical concept of "calling and election made sure", and basically saying the seemingly obvious truth that you have to receive the knowledge that you will inherit eternal life before you can receive eternal life.

[Guest]

VORT!!!

PAY ATTENTION!

You're right. YOU ARE 100% CORRECT.

So... I had a really interesting experience a few days ago. Jehovah's Witnesses came knocking on my door. So, I spent some time chatting with them. We got into some heavy topics and I told them that we agree on a lot of what they were saying but I told them that unless they believe in Pre-mortal existence, I can't be a "Witness" (that's what they called themselves).

And to my surprise... they asked me... What's pre-mortal existence? MAN! What an opening! So, I asked them to wait while I rush to grab my Primary Singing Time Visual Aids that has those circles on the Plan of Salvation and I explained to them everything about the Plan... and they asked, where in the scriptures does it say that?

AND AT THAT VERY MOMENT, I PAUSED, AND SAID TO MYSELF... DAGGONE IT. I SHOULD'VE LISTENED TO VORT!!!

True story.

[Dravin]

Topical Guide; Man, Antemortal existence of.

The topical guide isn't exhaustive, but I've found it's usually good for those kind of situations provided they aren't demanding you spit out a reference on the spot (which is admittedly more impressive) and will give you a minute or two.

[Vort]

anatess, I would have laughed, but this is the LDS Gospel Discussion forum, for which reason it removes my ability to laugh at posts. Good story. Bummer, though. Dravin has the right idea.

[Seminarysnoozer]

VORT!!!

PAY ATTENTION!

You're right. YOU ARE 100% CORRECT.

So... I had a really interesting experience a few days ago. Jehovah's Witnesses came knocking on my door. So, I spent some time chatting with them. We got into some heavy topics and I told them that we agree on a lot of what they were saying but I told them that unless they believe in Pre-mortal existence, I can't be a "Witness" (that's what they called themselves).

And to my surprise... they asked me... What's pre-mortal existence? MAN! What an opening! So, I asked them to wait while I rush to grab my Primary Singing Time Visual Aids that has those circles on the Plan of Salvation and I explained to them everything about the Plan... and they asked, where in the scriptures does it say that?

AND AT THAT VERY MOMENT, I PAUSED, AND SAID TO MYSELF... DAGGONE IT. I SHOULD'VE LISTENED TO VORT!!!

True story.

Great example of those focused on verse and missing the spirit.