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LDS Canon of Scriptures


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#1 Guest_DeusCaritasEst_*

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 08:41 PM

Does the LDS Church commit the inspired writings and/or revelations of previous and the current President's of the LDS Church to Scripture? Why or why not?

#2 Letrell

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 09:33 PM

Define "commit"? If you mean change the scriptures and add to them. No. If you mean take the words of the prophets and use them as they are meant, to guide us and direct us...Yes. If you could be a bit more clear in what you are asking, I could probably respond better. Thanks for posting. Letrell

#3 Guest_DeusCaritasEst_*

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 09:39 PM

I mean that since the Holy Bible is filled with the prophets' revelations on who God is, then do LDS refer to past and present "prophets'" revelations just as they would Job, Psalms, Leviticus, etc....? And if so, are LDS' required to follow these revelations?

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 09:44 PM

What about other revelations that did not change doctrine, are those or will they ever be added to the D&C?

#5 anatess

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 09:50 PM

And here I always scratch my head... what does one consider doctrine? Because, in my studies, Official Declaration 2 did not change doctrine - the Priesthood Authority has always been given to select groups of people from the time of the Levites until today. Official Declaration 2 merely expanded the selection to more people just like the Priesthood Authority in the olden days was expanded to include non-Levites.

#6 DHK

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 09:52 PM

Let's clarify some things. In talking about the term 'scripture', I think we're talking about the LDS Canon of scripture - in the context of the thread. To have a revelation 'cannonized', it must be a new revelation and voted to be included in the D&C by the First Presidency & Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. The last revelation (that was not a policy change) was D&C 138 - which chronicled a vision given to Prophet Joseph F. Smith in 1918. That's not to say that there haven't been prophetic warnings and guidance since 1918. Just not enough to have it 'cannonized'.
"But make no mistake about it, brothers and sisters; in the months and years ahead, events will require of each member that he or she decide whether or not he or she will follow the First Presidency. Members will find it more difficult to halt longer between two opinions (see 1 Kings 18:21). President Marion G. Romney said, many years ago, that he had "never hesitated to follow the counsel of the Authorities of the Church even though it crossed my social, professional, or political life" (CR, April 1941, p. 123). This is a hard doctrine, but it is a particularly vital doctrine in a society which is becoming more wicked. In short, brothers and sisters, not being ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ includes not being ashamed of the prophets of Jesus Christ." - Neal A. Maxwell, October 10th, 1978.

http://speeches.byu....viewitem&id=909

#7 DHK

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 09:53 PM

And here I always scratch my head... what does one consider doctrine?

Because, in my studies, Official Declaration 2 did not change doctrine - the Priesthood Authority has always been given to select groups of people from the time of the Levites until today. Official Declaration 2 merely expanded the selection to more people just like the Priesthood Authority in the olden days was expanded to include non-Levites.


Let's not take the thread off topic. And I could have a field day on this one. :)
"But make no mistake about it, brothers and sisters; in the months and years ahead, events will require of each member that he or she decide whether or not he or she will follow the First Presidency. Members will find it more difficult to halt longer between two opinions (see 1 Kings 18:21). President Marion G. Romney said, many years ago, that he had "never hesitated to follow the counsel of the Authorities of the Church even though it crossed my social, professional, or political life" (CR, April 1941, p. 123). This is a hard doctrine, but it is a particularly vital doctrine in a society which is becoming more wicked. In short, brothers and sisters, not being ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ includes not being ashamed of the prophets of Jesus Christ." - Neal A. Maxwell, October 10th, 1978.

http://speeches.byu....viewitem&id=909

#8 Guest_DeusCaritasEst_*

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 10:12 PM

Let's use the Wiktionary definition:

doctrine (plural doctrines)
1.A belief or tenet, especially about philosophical or theological matters.
2.The body of teachings of a religion, or a religious leader, organization, group or text.
The incarnation is a basic doctrine of classical Christianity.
The four noble truths summarise the main doctrines of Buddhism.


Would revelations that fall into this ^ category be included in the D&C?

#9 bytebear

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 10:59 PM

There are major and minor prophets. Most minor prophets do not have their writings or prophecies canonized. The Bible has many prophets who's writings we don't have, and even those we do have are a very broad arc of their day to day endeavors. We have no direct writings from Jesus Christ, only the writings of those who came after Him who quote Him. With the restoration of the Gospel through Joseph Smith, we were given the bulk of additional Canon. The Book of Mormon, Pearl of Great Price, and the majority of the D&C all come through Joseph Smith. After the restoration, his work was complete, and there is no longer a need for detailed revelations on the "beliefs or tenets" and "body of teachings" because they were clearly laid out. There are occasional changes to structure and practice, and they are revealed through General Conference but with very rare exceptions, they are not (for lack of a better word) groundbreaking enough to warrant inclusion in the Canon of Scripture we call the Standard Works. But they are scripture, as is one's Patriarchal Blessing, or one's mission call, or the announcement of a temple. All are inspired and revealed as much as any other revelation from God.

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 11:33 PM

Whom were you referring to with "After the restoration, his work was complete"? God's or JS?

#11 Letrell

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 11:47 PM

I think something is being missed here.... Man does not decide what is and what is not scripture....the Lord does. The church leaders do not "vote" on what is included in scripture. The Lord will tell the living prophet if there is more scripture that He has chosen to reveal to us. Cut and dry. Not sure this really is even debatable. (Did I spell that right?)

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 12:06 AM

Man does not decide what is and what is not scripture....the Lord does.



Was it not men inspired by God who wrote all the books in the Bible and men moved by the Holy Spririt who decided what to include in the Holy Scriptures?

The church leaders do not "vote" on what is included in scripture. The Lord will tell the living prophet if there is more scripture that He has chosen to reveal to us. Cut and dry.


Are you sure?

#13 anatess

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 12:20 AM

Was it not men inspired by God who wrote all the books in the Bible and men moved by the Holy Spririt who decided what to include in the Holy Scriptures?


And that's why one of our Articles of Faith is that we believe in the Bible only as far as it is translated correctly. The correct translation is, of course, provided by God through revelation to His prophets.


Are you sure?


Quite sure. Nobody voted on the Book of Mormon as the Word of God. The Book of Mormon was made scripture from God through Joseph Smith alone but it is witnessed by several people through the Holy Spirit.

Edited by anatess, 06 June 2013 - 12:25 AM.


#14 selek

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 12:57 AM

Whom were you referring to with "After the restoration, his work was complete"? God's or JS?


Given that the preceding two sentences refer to Joseph Smith as the vehicle by which the canon was brought to the fore, isn't it obvious?

Given your tenor in this and your other posts, I begin to suspect that you are being deliberately obtuse.
2 Timothy 1:7
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

#15 Guest_DeusCaritasEst_*

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 01:08 AM

Given that the preceding two sentences refer to Joseph Smith as the vehicle by which the canon was brought to the fore, isn't it obvious?

Given your tenor in this and your other posts, I begin to suspect that you are being deliberately obtuse.


Sorry, I'm not trying to be obtuse. Just making sure I understand what you are saying. Are you saying that "No, all of scripture has been revealed to Joseph Smith. So no other Prophets revelations will be included in the D&C"?

#16 DHK

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 01:13 AM

Chapter heading to D&C 138 - the last revelation of a doctrinal nature submitted to be canonized in LDS scripture:

Doctrine and Covenants 138Â*

A vision given to President Joseph F. Smith in Salt Lake City, Utah, on October 3, 1918. In his opening address at the 89th Semiannual General Conference of the Church, on October 4, 1918, President Smith declared that he had received several divine communications during the previous months. One of these, concerning the Savior’s visit to the spirits of the dead while His body was in the tomb, President Smith had received the previous day. It was written immediately following the close of the conference. On October 31, 1918, it was submitted to the counselors in the First Presidency, the Council of the Twelve, and the Patriarch, and it was unanimously accepted by them.


Edited by skippy740, 06 June 2013 - 01:31 AM.
clarification of my statement

"But make no mistake about it, brothers and sisters; in the months and years ahead, events will require of each member that he or she decide whether or not he or she will follow the First Presidency. Members will find it more difficult to halt longer between two opinions (see 1 Kings 18:21). President Marion G. Romney said, many years ago, that he had "never hesitated to follow the counsel of the Authorities of the Church even though it crossed my social, professional, or political life" (CR, April 1941, p. 123). This is a hard doctrine, but it is a particularly vital doctrine in a society which is becoming more wicked. In short, brothers and sisters, not being ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ includes not being ashamed of the prophets of Jesus Christ." - Neal A. Maxwell, October 10th, 1978.

http://speeches.byu....viewitem&id=909

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 01:14 AM

Quite sure. Nobody voted on the Book of Mormon as the Word of God. The Book of Mormon was made scripture from God through Joseph Smith alone but it is witnessed by several people through the Holy Spirit.


Taken from Official Declaration 2:

To Whom It May Concern:
On September 30, 1978, at the 148th Semiannual General Conference of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the following was presented by President N. Eldon Tanner, First Counselor in the First Presidency of the Church:

In early June of this year, the First Presidency announced that a revelation had been received by President Spencer W. Kimball extending priesthood and temple blessings to all worthy male members of the Church. President Kimball has asked that I advise the conference that after he had received this revelation, which came to him after extended meditation and prayer in the sacred rooms of the holy temple, he presented it to his counselors, who accepted it and approved it. It was then presented to the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, who unanimously approved it, and was subsequently presented to all other General Authorities, who likewise approved it unanimously.

#18 DHK

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 01:15 AM

Sorry, I'm not trying to be obtuse. Just making sure I understand what you are saying. Are you saying that "No, all of scripture has been revealed to Joseph Smith. So no other Prophets revelations will be included in the D&C"?


Articles of Faith 1Â*

9 We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.


We believe in an open cannon of scripture. It just so happens that the latest revelation to become canonized was in 1918. Anything since then was an adjustment to policy (such as Official Declaration 2), not a change or revelation of doctrines.
"But make no mistake about it, brothers and sisters; in the months and years ahead, events will require of each member that he or she decide whether or not he or she will follow the First Presidency. Members will find it more difficult to halt longer between two opinions (see 1 Kings 18:21). President Marion G. Romney said, many years ago, that he had "never hesitated to follow the counsel of the Authorities of the Church even though it crossed my social, professional, or political life" (CR, April 1941, p. 123). This is a hard doctrine, but it is a particularly vital doctrine in a society which is becoming more wicked. In short, brothers and sisters, not being ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ includes not being ashamed of the prophets of Jesus Christ." - Neal A. Maxwell, October 10th, 1978.

http://speeches.byu....viewitem&id=909

#19 Guest_DeusCaritasEst_*

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 01:19 AM

Thank you for the clarification skippy740! I am just trying to grasp the concept of continuing revelation and how the LDS are to respond. I am coming from the perspective that Christ revealed all there is to know about God as he was His Word in the Flesh. So, thank you for clearing that up.

#20 DHK

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 01:22 AM

Taken from Official Declaration 2:

To Whom It May Concern:
On September 30, 1978, at the 148th Semiannual General Conference of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the following was presented by President N. Eldon Tanner, First Counselor in the First Presidency of the Church:

In early June of this year, the First Presidency announced that a revelation had been received by President Spencer W. Kimball extending priesthood and temple blessings to all worthy male members of the Church. President Kimball has asked that I advise the conference that after he had received this revelation, which came to him after extended meditation and prayer in the sacred rooms of the holy temple, he presented it to his counselors, who accepted it and approved it. It was then presented to the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, who unanimously approved it, and was subsequently presented to all other General Authorities, who likewise approved it unanimously.



In this same vein, I'm going to highlight the new introduction to OD2:

The Book of Mormon teaches that “all are alike unto God,” including “black and white, bond and free, male and female” (2 Nephi 26:33). Throughout the history of the Church, people of every race and ethnicity in many countries have been baptized and have lived as faithful members of the Church. During Joseph Smith’s lifetime, a few black male members of the Church were ordained to the priesthood. Early in its history, Church leaders stopped conferring the priesthood on black males of African descent. Church records offer no clear insights into the origins of this practice. Church leaders believed that a revelation from God was needed to alter this practice and prayerfully sought guidance. The revelation came to Church President Spencer W. Kimball and was affirmed to other Church leaders in the Salt Lake Temple on June 1, 1978. The revelation removed all restrictions with regard to race that once applied to the priesthood.


This introduction makes it clear that it wasn't a change in doctrine, but it was a clarification of a previous practice that was implemented.


Switching tactics here:
- Ever wonder why The Living Christ or The Family Proclamation to the World isn't considered canonized scripture?

Yes, it is based entirely on scripture and doctrine, but it isn't NEW scripture or doctrine. It is not a new revelation, but simply statements from the leaders of the Church - including warnings and admonitions to heed to these doctrines... but they aren't new.
"But make no mistake about it, brothers and sisters; in the months and years ahead, events will require of each member that he or she decide whether or not he or she will follow the First Presidency. Members will find it more difficult to halt longer between two opinions (see 1 Kings 18:21). President Marion G. Romney said, many years ago, that he had "never hesitated to follow the counsel of the Authorities of the Church even though it crossed my social, professional, or political life" (CR, April 1941, p. 123). This is a hard doctrine, but it is a particularly vital doctrine in a society which is becoming more wicked. In short, brothers and sisters, not being ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ includes not being ashamed of the prophets of Jesus Christ." - Neal A. Maxwell, October 10th, 1978.

http://speeches.byu....viewitem&id=909




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