End Times final conflict of religions - Traveler's Question to PC


Recommended Posts

Though discussion is promoted contention is not and is considered evil - that contention is of the Devil. Thus if contention takes over a discussion that Satan is in control. This is understood to be the case even in discussions between a husband and wife. With this in mind the idea that we set a "snare" (something I seem to push the borders - but in my defense my purpose is to generate thinking rather than prove - but still I realize that sometimes I go two far) is a fine line because often Jesus asked questions - the difference being the the ancient Pharisee intended to condemn and create contention and Jesus asked with the intention to uncover and teach a point of doctrine.

I am interested in your end of time point of view. The LDS point of view is that as the time of Christ's return come closer that there will be two great camps arise to which all of mankind will align and find allies. One camp will be known as Zion and her allies (the pure in heart) and the other Babylon - the church of the Devil - and her allies. It is my understanding that Zion will be a minority in this conflict - A conflict that is characterized as war including the final conflict of Armageddon.

With this point of view LDS believe we ought to make allies as characterized in scripture with the Gentiles - and to gather from among the Gentiles not only converts to Christ and his restoration but allies in the conflict with evil. That those that will not ally with us will of necessity ally with Babylon.

The Traveler

My views on the end times have been popularized by the Left Behind series. It's not perfect, but it does largely present a very literal view of how the last days will play, according to "premillenial" evengalical thinking. In short:

1. True believers in Christ will be raptured "taken away" prior to the final seven years of tribulation on earth.

2. During those seven years many half-hearted church people will realize the truth, and make a full conversion. In Left Behind, one of the main characters was a youth pastor who had not truly converted.

3. Other friends/acquaintances/family members of those raptured will be prime candidates for conversion.

4. An Antichrist will emerge. He will lead the world in rebellion against God and his people--including national Israel.

5. There will be multiple horrific disasters that come upon the earth.

6. People will pledge their allegiance to Antichrist by taking a mark--the "666." Those who do not will not be able to buy or sell. Eventually they will be marytred by beheading.

7. Israel will be a focus point--especially at the very end. There is a lot of discussion about this, but many believe there will be mass conversions of Jews to faith in Christ.

8. At the final battle of Armaggedon it will be the forces of God against the Antichrist and his followers.

Afterwards there will be judgment and the establishment of a 1000-year kingdom, ruled directly by Christ. Raptured believers, and the earlier saints will serve as rulers and priests.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1. True believers in Christ will be raptured "taken away" prior to the final seven years of tribulation on earth.

I think some schools of thought believe that the Rapture could occur pre-Tribulation, mid-Tribulation or post-Tribulation (Tribulation being the 7 year period). I'm kind of in the mid-Tribulation camp.

M.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maureen is correct. However, I underdstand that roughly 75% of those who embrace the kind of literal end-times scenario I describe believe the Rapture will take place prior to the 7-years of Tribulation. What's important for me is that Jesus and Paul both said Christians should have a sense of urgency, and be ready always for the 2nd coming of Christ. While the premillenial, pre-Tribulation Rapture scenario best creates that urgency in my mind (nothing new has to happen before Christ returns under this teaching), I have no theological heartburn with other takes on this--so long as they underline the imminence of Christ's return, and so long as they leave no room for complacency.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The LDS concept of the end of days or the last days as I understand is as follows:

#1. The Restoration. I believe that this is a somewhat fluid term because there is a beginning of the restoration that will reach its climax or conclusion with Christ being restored and recognized as King and the G-d of this world. However, the restoration will signal the beginning of the last days:

Dan. 2:44 – G-d will restore his kingdom (which will never be destroyed) at the time when the Roman Empire will be divided first into two kingdoms (the two legs) and then weakened (clay mixed with stone) resulting in 10 weaker kingdoms. Shortly after the Kingdom of G-d is established (small stone) the kingdoms that remain of the Roman Empire will all fall and the reign of kings in the fallen empire will end forever.

Isaiah 2:2 & Micah 4:2 – G-d will move his people to Utah. The translation from scripture is “Top of the Mountains” The word Utah comes from the native tongue of the Ute people which literally means “Top of the Mountains”.

Matt 17:11 - John the Baptist will come before all things are restored

Eph 1:10 All things will be gathered together

#2. The Return of Israel to the Promised Land and the restoration of Israel. The scripture is vast but often given through symbolism. Two important books of Ancient Scripture are the Book of Isaiah and the Book of Ezekiel. Part of the symbolism deals with the “Sons of Zadok” in association to the temple and the particular roles of two particular tribes of Israel – The Jews and Ephraim. Ephraim being the house of Joseph that will be separated from the Jews and among the Gentiles. Ephraim will be the means by which the Jews will gain control of Jerusalem.

#3. Matt 24:14 - Missionaries sent to all the world to testify of the restoration and the coming of Christ. It is the LDS concept that this is taking place. Many LDS believe that the dramatic change in the number of Missionaries by lowering the age requirements is an indication that events are accelerating. It is believed that the last nations and peoples to hear will only have a very short time to listen then all missionaries will be called home. It is my speculation that when this occurs that the time of Jesus’ return will be in less than two years (closer to one year).

#4. The Rise of Babylon – there is much in scripture and in LDS doctrine (restored scriptures) concerning Babylon – we may want to discuss this separately. But as I understand Babylon was the ancient symbol of banking and the evils of worldly living and specifically creating debt. It is my understanding that one of the indications that Jesus will soon return (perhaps within a few years or months) is the collapse of nations to dept. It is interesting to me that is Islam the prime symbolism of Satan and his influence was the institutionalization of debt. This is why Islamist terrorist attached the twin towers of New York as a symbol that they intended to destroy the institutionalization of debt in the world.

#5 Revelation chapter 11. LDS believe that two prophets of the LDS faith will be called on a mission to Jerusalem for about 3 and ½ years. The will protect Jerusalem with divine power and will testify of Christ. They will eventually be killed in the streets of Jerusalem where they will remain for 2 and ½ days (the exact time may be problematic because the ancients did not know how to use the number 0).

#6 – The sign of Christ (Matt 24). I speculate that this sign spoken of was that same as the sign of his birth. In other words a new star. This speculation of a new star – I have wondered to be a super nova. At the time of Christ the star the super novaed was about 600 light years from earth and caused half of the earth to experience the ozone fluorescing causing light to continue (without shadows) when the sun set over the entire western hemisphere. When Jesus returns I speculate that again there will be a super nova within 400 light years which will cause the earth to catch on fire and melt stone. This will destroy all that do not come under Christ’s immediate protection. This I believe will be the event the many Christians call the rapture except it will happen when Jesus comes and not years before. Anyone that is not caught up and protected by Christ will be destroyed.

The Traveler

PS - I am sure you all understand that this is a thumb nail summary and not a detailed description of my LDS understanding.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

PC, if you get raptured out of here anytime soon, I'm sorely going to miss your insights here.

While Mormon scripture teaches a post rapture, we do believe that God will establish a Zion people out of all the righteous on earth. There will be special protection from God for them. This, while the wicked fight amongst themselves prior to Armageddon and the 2nd Coming of Christ.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...

I would like to share these verses as evidence of his coming . I'm believing I will go up on one of the three Tribulations ! Lol

1 Thessalonians 4:15-18

New Living Translation (NLT)

15 We tell you this directly from the Lord: We who are still living when the Lord returns will not meet him ahead of those who have died.[a] 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a commanding shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God. First, the Christians who have died will rise from their graves. 17 Then, together with them, we who are still alive and remain on the earth will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. Then we will be with the Lord forever. 18 So encourage each other with these words.

1 Thessalonians 5:1-10

New Living Translation (NLT)

5 Now concerning how and when all this will happen, dear brothers and sisters,[a] we don’t really need to write you. 2 For you know quite well that the day of the Lord’s return will come unexpectedly, like a thief in the night. 3 When people are saying, “Everything is peaceful and secure,” then disaster will fall on them as suddenly as a pregnant woman’s labor pains begin. And there will be no escape.

4 But you aren’t in the dark about these things, dear brothers and sisters, and you won’t be surprised when the day of the Lord comes like a thief. 5 For you are all children of the light and of the day; we don’t belong to darkness and night. 6 So be on your guard, not asleep like the others. Stay alert and be clearheaded. 7 Night is the time when people sleep and drinkers get drunk. 8 But let us who live in the light be clearheaded, protected by the armor of faith and love, and wearing as our helmet the confidence of our salvation.

9 For God chose to save us through our Lord Jesus Christ, not to pour out his anger on us. 10 Christ died for us so that, whether we are dead or alive when he returns, we can live with him forever.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4

New Living Translation (NLT)

Events prior to the Lord’s Second Coming

2 Now, dear brothers and sisters,[a] let us clarify some things about the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and how we will be gathered to meet him. 2 Don’t be so easily shaken or alarmed by those who say that the day of the Lord has already begun. Don’t believe them, even if they claim to have had a spiritual vision, a revelation, or a letter supposedly from us. 3 Don’t be fooled by what they say. For that day will not come until there is a great rebellion against God and the man of lawlessness is revealed—the one who brings destruction.[c] 4 He will exalt himself and defy everything that people call god and every object of worship. He will even sit in the temple of God, claiming that he himself is God.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

More verses on Christ's second coming , Rapture .

2 Peter 1:18-21

New Living Translation (NLT)

18 We ourselves heard that voice from heaven when we were with him on the holy mountain.

19 Because of that experience, we have even greater confidence in the message proclaimed by the prophets. You must pay close attention to what they wrote, for their words are like a lamp shining in a dark place—until the Day dawns, and Christ the Morning Star shines[a] in your hearts. 20 Above all, you must realize that no prophecy in Scripture ever came from the prophet’s own understanding, 21 or from human initiative. No, those prophets were moved by the Holy Spirit, and they spoke from God.

1 John 2:28-29

New Living Translation (NLT)

Living as Children of God

28 And now, dear children, remain in fellowship with Christ so that when he returns, you will be full of courage and not shrink back from him in shame.

29 Since we know that Christ is righteous, we also know that all who do what is right are God’s children.

1 John 3:2

New Living Translation (NLT)

2 Dear friends, we are already God’s children, but he has not yet shown us what we will be like when Christ appears. But we do know that we will be like him, for we will see him as he really is.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 11 months later...

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share