prisonchaplain Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 I'd tell them they should only date people that they could marry. We discover personality during the dating process. However, if you know the fellow/gal is not in the Church, is not eligible to be sealed--why risk falling in love? You're the Stake President, and the parents have complained that I am counseling too harshly, based on my opinions--not church doctrine. How will you counsel me? BTW, as LDS parents, would you want me to counsel my evangelical youth not to date your LDS youth? Irishcolleen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarginOfError Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 If we are going to use the term 'date' in the sense of the classical 'court' then yes, I would agree. Don't get seriously involved with someone who doesn't fit the goals you wish to accomplish. I think that there is a lot of confusion about what is meant by 'dating' though. Courting is a term that has fallen out of favor and dating can mean anything from casual dating to serious dating leading up to engagement. There is far to much nuance there. I think people also have very unrealistic expectations starting out. I offended a couple of women when I was in college because I asked them out on a date, but a few weeks later might ask out another woman on a date. I was trying to be friendly, and some women interpreted that as interest in a more serious relationship. It doesn't help that there is no good cultural language available to discuss these nuances. so in short, I don't mind if my daughter goes on casual dates with one of your evangelical youth. But I will discourage them from becoming their own little item. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 Wise counsel is wise counsel regardless of a parents reasonings. I would counsel a Bishop to stick to his guns, with as much kindness and friendliness as possible. And if offense is taken, that is each person's prerogative in this life. But we hold to right principles regardless of how others decide to take it. Frankly, any parent that complained to a Stake President that their Bishop was giving them counsel that not only aligns with church teachings, but is also designed to lead that person to peace and happiness.... Well...that parent is asking for trouble. LDS teachings do not forbid dating non-LDS. But they clearly counsel against it. Any Bishop or Stake President would be right in sharing similar counsel. As to the evangelical youth counsel...that's a bit more complicated. As we (LDS) believe we are the only church with the fullness of the gospel, we would hope all youth find means to explore the truthfulness of our gospel. If a desire to date an LDS person were motivating them to explore to that end, then that is good. So I hesitate to say I would want evangelical leaders to discourage dating LDS. And yet, I do not think it wise to date and marry outside of one's religion, and so I only hesitate to say it in terms of hoping for them to explore the LDS religion, and not because I think cross-religious dating is wise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 so in short, I don't mind if my daughter goes on casual dates with one of your evangelical youth. But I will discourage them from becoming their own little item. The concern is, of course, that one leads to the other. If they don't go on casual dates, they're unlikely to become their own little item, and thereby unlikely to marry. As I understand it (and I believe this has been clearly taught...though I'd have to do some reading to validate it) the church suggests that even casual dating outside the faith, as it were, should be generally avoided. prisonchaplain 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lakumi Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 so if you have no religion, then you date those with no religion?Though even if I became LDS tomorrow I'm still so unconventional with my mindset and behaviour I couldn't afford to limit myself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarginOfError Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 The concern is, of course, that one leads to the other. If they don't go on casual dates, they're unlikely to become their own little item, and thereby unlikely to marry. As I understand it (and I believe this has been clearly taught...though I'd have to do some reading to validate it) the church suggests that even casual dating outside the faith, as it were, should be generally avoided. I don't think the Church suggests that at all. For the Strength of Youth It may have suggested that in the past (I can't remember) and that may be the opinion of some church leaders, but I don't think I would place that in the realm of divine and inspired general counsel (though it may be good counsel for some individuals). The concern about casual dating turning into serious dating is one that would be alleviated if there were an adequate language for youth to discuss the differences between casual dating and courtship. Casually dating multiple people is less likely to result in pairing off with someone of another faith because you have the opportunity to experience a wide range of personalities. It's the pairing of too young while emotionally immature that creates problems here. Also, I'm scratching my head over the logistics of counseling LDS youth not to date evangelical youth while simultaneously counseling evangelical youth to date LDS youth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 I don't think the Church suggests that at all. For the Strength of Youth It may have suggested that in the past (I can't remember) and that may be the opinion of some church leaders, but I don't think I would place that in the realm of divine and inspired general counsel (though it may be good counsel for some individuals). Fair enough. But, then again, what criteria are you applying for determining what is and isn't inspired counsel? Also, I'm scratching my head over the logistics of counseling LDS youth not to date evangelical youth while simultaneously counseling evangelical youth to date LDS youth. Shouldn't be head scratching with application of the LDS-only teaching of Eternal Marriage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prisonchaplain Posted April 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 so in short, I don't mind if my daughter goes on casual dates with one of your evangelical youth. But I will discourage them from becoming their own little item. I would suggest that if the date is just the two, then there is always the possiblity and hope that it could some day lead to more. "Casual dating," to my way of reckoning, is done in groups. Do I sound a whole lot older than I am? B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prisonchaplain Posted April 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 As to the evangelical youth counsel...that's a bit more complicated. As we (LDS) believe we are the only church with the fullness of the gospel, we would hope all youth find means to explore the truthfulness of our gospel. If a desire to date an LDS person were motivating them to explore to that end, then that is good. So I hesitate to say I would want evangelical leaders to discourage dating LDS. And yet, I do not think it wise to date and marry outside of one's religion, and so I only hesitate to say it in terms of hoping for them to explore the LDS religion, and not because I think cross-religious dating is wise. "Missionary dating"--that is, dating with the hopes of seeing the lass/lad conver (not dating those who are missionaries, obviously)--may win a few--but lose many. My guess is that more faithful youth have lost their way, as the attempted to help their boy/girlfriend find theirs. How many marriages have been forged unequally, when the root goal was 'missionary dating?' Besides, once the unconverted finds out about these motives, they may feel used. Being unconverted, they may figure that turnabout is fair play, and make false ovetures about being open to consider the restored gospel. To put it more simply, what if the LDS youth ends up evangelical through this effort? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prisonchaplain Posted April 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 so if you have no religion, then you date those with no religion?Though even if I became LDS tomorrow I'm still so unconventional with my mindset and behaviour I couldn't afford to limit myself You could date/marry someone who's religious convictions do not include claims to exclusive or absolute truth... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarginOfError Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 I would suggest that if the date is just the two, then there is always the possiblity and hope that it could some day lead to more. "Casual dating," to my way of reckoning, is done in groups. Do I sound a whole lot older than I am? B) For high school students, I would give the same advice. For college students, I might view it a little differently. But there is wisdom in that description. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 "Missionary dating"--that is, dating with the hopes of seeing the lass/lad conver (not dating those who are missionaries, obviously)--may win a few--but lose many. My guess is that more faithful youth have lost their way, as the attempted to help their boy/girlfriend find theirs. How many marriages have been forged unequally, when the root goal was 'missionary dating?' Besides, once the unconverted finds out about these motives, they may feel used. Being unconverted, they may figure that turnabout is fair play, and make false ovetures about being open to consider the restored gospel. To put it more simply, what if the LDS youth ends up evangelical through this effort? To be clear, I was not suggesting that missionary dating take place. I was suggesting that, in my opinion, for an evangelical to try and date someone LDS is, to me, different than an LDS trying to date an evangelical. It's more of a statement of theory than practicality, and is clearly based in my bias towards the LDS religion as true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lakumi Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 You could date/marry someone who's religious convictions do not include claims to exclusive or absolute truth... I suppose so, dating doesn't seem important in my life, even at 25 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordorbund Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 From my understanding of Evangelical theology, I would say don't date LDS!!! (I may need more exclamation marks) We are talking about your salvation, your children's salvation, and your spouse's salvation. When you are married, you are to be one (https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/eph/5.28-29,31?lang=eng#27) (even one flesh), to the extent that your joys and your trials are shared. If your spouse becomes a stumbling block for you, the two of you need to work together to move forward. Jesus taught that if your eye offends you, pluck it out (and dealing with one flesh, how difficult is it if that eye has an arm fighting to keep it in). Paul softened this by suggesting that the believing spouse may in time sanctify the unbelieving (but I would point out that the sanctifying happens when the two of you together excise offending eyes). I say exercise discernment and marry a partner who is a true partner! You'll be rearing children together, "Can two walk together, except they be aagreed?" You will both influence your children in the way of salvation. Choose someone who will show them the path. My simple test on this matter: Date persons that you think are saved. For the most part, that excludes LDS, and that's fine by me. If our youth are in error, don't risk yourself and your posterity. Just_A_Guy, The Folk Prophet and prisonchaplain 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 If PrisonChaplain was an LDS Bishop.... Man, that would be sooo cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lakumi Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 If PrisonChaplain was an LDS Bishop.... Man, that would be sooo cool. I think the more terrifying thought would be, if I was an LDS Bishop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 I think the more terrifying thought would be, if I was an LDS Bishop http://triadmomsonmain.com/images/Rachel%20Originals/Home-Alone.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lakumi Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 http://triadmomsonmain.com/images/Rachel%20Originals/Home-Alone.jpg yeah just imagine... I mean even the smallest things, like how I sit are bizarre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prisonchaplain Posted April 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 I think the more terrifying thought would be, if I was an LDS Bishop Actually that would be cool too...maybe a little too cool! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lakumi Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 Actually that would be cool too...maybe a little too cool! Yeah I'd be a wacky bishop, but doesn't one have to have a family to be called as a Bishop? (amongst other things)That would rule me out, that and I'd probably change the office more then they'd be cool with lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 Yeah I'd be a wacky bishop, but doesn't one have to have a family to be called as a Bishop? (amongst other things)That would rule me out, that and I'd probably change the office more then they'd be cool with lol I don't think you need to worry about being called as a bishop Lakumi. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lakumi Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 I don't think you need to worry about being called as a bishop Lakumi. :) Oh I know, I was more curious about requirements.I can't be called to do anything because I'm not a member lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roseslipper Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 If we lived in a perfect world then yes I think people should marry their own kind. But we don't. You marry who you date in most cases. It is much easier if both partners are equally yoked working together for the same major goals. When he is one religion or not and she is another you don't have the same major goals. Lds life style is a way of everyday living adventually some one will be disappointed and what about your future children, Even thou both people are good people and spiritual some thing will be missing if its a female who is lds then their will be the missing of having the Priesthood in her home and all that that brings, and what about having your spouse for eternity that might be in question, unless they some time join in this life or the next. It leaves a lot up in the air. Most Lds people male or female hope to evently baptize their non lds friend or husband. But it doesn't always happen. Remember that song from west side story, stick to your own kind. I put in that's if its for marriage but be friends to all. Are you playing with fire if you date some one who has different beliefs??? I think so. We cant change any one. The person can only make the change 4 themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roseslipper Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 You never know who might be a Bishop some day!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lakumi Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 You never know who might be a Bishop some day!!!!!!!!! Trust me, that is just a disaster waiting to happen! lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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