"Believe" vs "Know"


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I thought this might be a good quote regarding believing vs. knowing also:

 

"As we approached the Holy Land we read together the harmony of the four gospel narratives so beautifully put together by President J. Reuben Clark, Jr., and then as we left our room each time, we prayed that the Lord would deafen our ears to what the guide said about historical places but would make us keenly sensitive to the spiritual feeling so that we would know by impression, rather than by hearing, where the sacred spots were." (I Walked Today Where Jesus Walked, President Harold B Lee; emphasis added)

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....

 

As of now, I would disagree with the young man, because the purpose of the Holy Ghost is supply us with knowledge, truth.  Once revealed by the Holy Ghost, we have been given knowlege, not just a mere belief.  Through experience we are provided other witnesses to clarify and increase what we have already received.

 

I now use both simple statements of facts along with "I know."  Otherwise, how are we to interpret Moroni 10: 3-5, "by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may KNOW the truth of all things"?

 

We are informed that a sure witness from the Holy Ghost is more powerful (maybe not correct word) than a visit from the Savior himself, or a visit from an angel.

 

...

 

I cannot speak to what others have experienced but from my own experience, I would speak to this post and clarify some of I have found to take place concerning my experience with the Holy Ghost and have received revelation of knowledge.  At times of my life I have come to know things to be true by the power of the Holy Ghost.  At the moment of this experience the knowledge was like a vast flood completely overtaking me in my understanding to expanding my comprehension.  But like being overtaken by a flood; some time later I also experienced a "receding" from the vast knowledge that was once very clear to me.  This receding from vast knowledge was not so much doubt as not being able to remember the full extent of my previous insight. 

 

From my experience it would seem that knowledge experienced through the Holy Ghost ebbs and flows in a manner that seem to be directly related to my ability to be connected with the Holy Ghost.  If for whatever reason I continue to remain distant my diminishing comprehension will become doubt and eventually disbelief.  Then should I find myself surrounded again by a flowing of the spirit - I discover again what I knew before.    For me understanding and knowledge is not a constant or a one and done thing but in reality a continual struggle to stay connected.  For this very reason I welcome gathering with other Latter-day Saints on any given Sunday regardless of where I travel and find myself.   I also find benefit in associating with other of honest and compassionate demeanor.   Strangely I find the opposite to also be the case - especially if I allow myself to become angry - anger will cause doubt and confusion to creep in.  For this reason I believe Satan uses such tools to dissuade us from truths that we once enjoyed.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I think the stake president should have taken the time to correct and encourage the YM.

He is probably like so many heading out on a mission who merely believe what their parents, teachers, bishops etc say about the gospel being true. If I was in that ward I would look forward to hearing his talk when he comes off his mission and if he still holds the same view.

Believe and knowledge are not the same but a form of progression. Here is the formula for spiritual growth below as outlines in Ether 4

Belief = visitation of the HG = knowledge

11 But he that believeth these things which I have spoken, him will I visit with the manifestations of my Spirit, and he shall know and bear record. For because of my Spirit he shall know that these things are true; for it persuadeth men to do good. (Ether 4:11)

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Please be very careful the way we interpurt speakers because we can go into a judgemental stage and that is dangerous and we also want to show unconditional love the one the saviour showed us when dieing on the cross !

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Another important note ! If you see a young man or woman bearing a testimony in the wrong manner grab a hold of that brother or sister and in a loving manner correct and exhort , I know in my experiences with missionaries I always like to suggest and give good sound advice because I have a lot of leadership experience being in the Army for 37 years and currently serving on my last tour before retirement !

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The word unbelief is used throughout the scriptures 70+ times, nearly 50 in the Book of Mormon alone. Moroni 7 is an excellent chapter on the matter. Context is key when using the word knowledge. When the brother of Jared parted the veil, he no longer had faith, for he knew, nothing doubting. This is central to understanding the fullness of the gospel.

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The word unbelief is used throughout the scriptures 70+ times, nearly 50 in the Book of Mormon alone. Moroni 7 is an excellent chapter on the matter. Context is key when using the word knowledge. When the brother of Jared parted the veil, he no longer had faith, for he knew, nothing doubting. This is central to understanding the fullness of the gospel.

 

Yup and you cannot KNOW only by the Holy Ghost. Joseph Smith said it this way in the King Follet Discourse.

 

Found here: https://www.lds.org/ensign/1971/04/the-king-follett-sermon?lang=eng

 

 

I want to ask this congregation, every man, woman and child, to answer the question in their own hearts, what kind of a being God is? Ask yourselves; turn your thoughts into your hearts, and say if any of you have seen, heard, or communed with Him? This is a question that may occupy your attention for a long time. I again repeat the question—What kind of being is God? Does any man or woman know? Have any of you seen Him, heard Him, or communed with Him? Here is the question that will, peradventure, from this time henceforth occupy your attention. The scriptures inform us that “this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.” (John 17:3.)

 

If any man does not know God, and inquires what kind of a being He is—if he will search diligently his own heart—if the declaration of Jesus and the apostles be true, he will realize that he has not eternal life; for there can be eternal life on no other principle.

Can you really KNOW him and not have Eternal Life? Can you have eternal life and not know it? Can you really know him and not be like him?

 

The holy ghost can reveal truths but its still belief. When put into action its Faith. When Faith becomes perfect it becomes knowledge or you know something. (Alma 32).

 

 

 

1 May 1842 (Sunday Morning). Grove.

Manuscript History of the Church

pages 119 - 120 I preached in the grove on the keys of the Kingdom, Charity &c The keys are certain signs and words by which false spirits and personages may be detected from true, which cannot be revealed to the Elders till the Temple is completed —The rich can only get them in the Temple—the poor may get them on the Mountain top as did Moses. The rich cannot be saved without Charity, giving to feed the poor when and how God requires as well as building. There are signs in heaven, earth, and hell, the Elders must know them all to be endowed with power, to finish their work and prevent imposition. The devil knows many signs but does not know the sign of the Son of Man, or Jesus. No one can truly say he knows God {7} until he has handled something, and this can only be in the Holiest of Holies.

 

So tell me what that "handled something" is and you will know what it means to "know God". This is the fulness of the gospel.

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I just want to point out that our General Authorities, particularly those we sustain as prophets, rarely use the word know in that context. I'm a user of believe myself, although I often just do statements as if it's fact as well (like the General Authorities do).

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...So tell me what that "handled something" is and you will know what it means to "know God". This is the fulness of the gospel.

 

Psalms 73:21 Thus my heart was grieved, and I was pricked in my reins.

22 So foolish was I, and ignorant: I was as a beast before thee.

23 Nevertheless I am continually with thee: thou hast holden me by my right hand.

24 Thou shalt guide me with thy counsel, and afterward receive me to glory.

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Another important note ! If you see a young man or woman bearing a testimony in the wrong manner grab a hold of that brother or sister and in a loving manner correct and exhort , I know in my experiences with missionaries I always like to suggest and give good sound advice because I have a lot of leadership experience being in the Army for 37 years and currently serving on my last tour before retirement !

 

Oh you never want to touch me, especially when I am giving a cheerful rhyme :lol:

but seriously that would be bad.

I always felt if I said I know people would ask me "how" and I can't know. I can only believe. Knowing to me is seeing, and I've never seen God (or heard, touched, etc), so I can only believe.

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