Cross on the High Plains


slamjet
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I was traveling on I-40, driving my son home, when we stopped at a pretty interesting place.  It's called the Cross on the High Plains in Groom, TX (right next to the interstate).  It's the home of the second largest cross (190' tall) and has the 14 Stations of the Cross (plus other Truths) on bronze plaques and depicted by bronze statues (as well as other statues).  I tell ya, it's worth the stop.

 

Some pictures, because this post is worthless without em...

 

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You know what I see everytime I go down the 401 to Toronto... a giant smiling apple...

Though considering what I "add" to my photography (the dolls) visiting a place like that would offend a LOT of people...

 

I would, however, like to see the Precious Moments...like factory thing, that's... well its Christian but far less churchy and far more cute.

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I would, however, like to see the Precious Moments...like factory thing, that's... well its Christian but far less churchy and far more cute.

 

We visited Precious Moments several years ago.  My in-laws had lost a child soon after delivery.  I went into the chapel, and read about the artist losing his child.  Tears came to my eyes.

 

You are right.  It is Christian.  It is spiritual.  It's not churchy.. 

Edited by prisonchaplain
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We visited Precious Moments several years ago.  My in-laws had lost a child soon after delivery.  I went into the chapel, and read about the artist losing his child.  Tears came to my eyes.

 

You are right.  It is Christian.  It is spiritual.  It's not churchy.. 

I collect the figures as well so would want to get some exclusives!

 

I forgot it had a chapel... I'd go there since it's there, wouldn't hurt.

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I'm surprised it's still there.  So many other crosses that have been landmarks in other places for so many years have gone through the court systems and are being taken down. So sad.

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There's a cross above Boise on top of a cool mesa called Table Rock. People have tried to have it removed several times. It's a major Boise landmark, though. I'll be sad if/when they manage to get it taken down. 

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I'm surprised it's still there.  So many other crosses that have been landmarks in other places for so many years have gone through the court systems and are being taken down. So sad.

I've always been very torn on the whole religious decor in public places. One one hand it is insulting to those who don't practise said religion and feel the idea of a seperation of church and state, as the US claims it has, should be upheld, but on the other, it is a landmark and often a part of a towns history. You can't erase history because you don't like it or don't agree with whatever the thing that is there stands for.

Edited by Lakumi
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I've always been very torn on the whole religious decor in public places. One one hand it is insulting to those who don't practise said religion and feel the idea of a seperation of church and state, as the US claims it has, should be upheld, but on the other, it is a landmark and often a part of a towns history. You can't erase history because you don't like it or don't agree with whatever the thing that is there stands for.

 

I believe you  have a huge misunderstanding of what separation of church and state really mean.  Or what it was meant to mean.   

 

Somehow the voices of a few have been allowed to be the voices of all of us.

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I'm surprised it's still there.  So many other crosses that have been landmarks in other places for so many years have gone through the court systems and are being taken down. So sad.

 

It all depends, of course, on whether the underlying land is privately or publicly owned.

 

We have not yet gotten to the point where anyone putting a religious display on private land must also completely drape the display in a concealing shroud lest passerby on public roads should inadvertently catch a glimpse of that display and be reminded that--yes--some people (erp!) disagree with them

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I'm surprised it's still there.  So many other crosses that have been landmarks in other places for so many years have gone through the court systems and are being taken down. So sad.

 

The crosses that have been taken down are all on public land.  If it's on private land, the only real way to have it taken down is making it a building code issue.  The Cross on the High Plains is on private land owned by the ministry so i would surmise that there's not a whole lot anyone can do about it.

 

It's pretty bad these days when freedom of religion has been turned into freedom from religion.

Edited by slamjet
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I believe you  have a huge misunderstanding of what separation of church and state really mean.  Or what it was meant to mean.   

 

Somehow the voices of a few have been allowed to be the voices of all of us.

 

So what is it supposed to mean then?

 

In Canada I've never seen any religious icons like that, just sitting on public property. I've seen things like that infront of churches, but never in like a park or something.

I mean Canada is a land of "we don't wish to offend you" I think I've seen more statues of Maurice Richard then of like Mary or crosses or something.

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So what is it supposed to mean then?

 

In Canada I've never seen any religious icons like that, just sitting on public property. I've seen things like that infront of churches, but never in like a park or something.

I mean Canada is a land of "we don't wish to offend you" I think I've seen more statues of Maurice Richard then of like Mary or crosses or something.

Not trying to be rude here......best thing for you to do is research church and state on internet
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Not trying to be rude here......best thing for you to do is research church and state on internet

That won't really help since Canada does it differently then the US, so I felt it was simply easier to ask people who live in the US, vs reading some broad ideas on wikipedia or something.

 

As I mentioned Canada isn't the sort of place to have giant crosses on public property (they might exist but I've never seen any and I'm pretty well traveled) example- it doesn't say "In God we trust" on our money (only reason I think God is in the national anthem is we probably have no idea what to replace it with that flows lol) but our anthem is weird since sometimes its sung half french-half english and I won't get into that.

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"Separation of church and state" is a phrase that one of the founders penned.  It is not part of our Constitution, or even the Declaration of Independence.  The purpose of religious liberty was to protect minorities from government persecution.  Today atheists (a small minority) find offense at the very sight of a religious icon.  To me they are either immature, weak, or just enjoy angering people of faith.

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"Separation of church and state" is a phrase that one of the founders penned.  It is not part of our Constitution, or even the Declaration of Independence.  The purpose of religious liberty was to protect minorities from government persecution.  Today atheists (a small minority) find offense at the very sight of a religious icon.  To me they are either immature, weak, or just enjoy angering people of faith.

 

I don't know if I see it that way, I know they think Christians are "simple minded and oppressive" (amongst many things) from my personal experience as one...

Canadians seem to have less beef with them since there are so many more non believers (yours is like at 4% ours is at like 23% or something, don't quote me)

Also something interesting to note about Canada and the US in terms of religious people, many will say they are Catholic or whatnot, but never actually go to church (my dad's side of the family is a good example, while they are all God believing people, none of them ever go to church apart from Weddings or Baptisms or the like).

Growing up to me and people I knew, lot of the Christian things (church, bible study) were weird things you see on tv. No one you knew went to church, people from other countries went there, but no one you knew ever went.

The Bible was a book with a few stories you'd heard and it had Jesus but no one ever read it.

Even in Catholic school, no one ever went to church on their own, you went a few times with your class as some sort of sick joke field trip, but that was the only time I ever saw a church before I went as an adult per general curiosity.

 

I certainly don't think the US has that sort of "meh" attitude about religion.

Edited by Lakumi
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"Separation of church and state" is a phrase that one of the founders penned.  It is not part of our Constitution, or even the Declaration of Independence.  The purpose of religious liberty was to protect minorities from government persecution.  Today atheists (a small minority) find offense at the very sight of a religious icon.  To me they are either immature, weak, or just enjoy angering people of faith.

I agree with you on that Prison Chap

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"Separation of church and state" is a phrase that one of the founders penned.  It is not part of our Constitution, or even the Declaration of Independence.  The purpose of religious liberty was to protect minorities from government persecution.  Today atheists (a small minority) find offense at the very sight of a religious icon.  To me they are either immature, weak, or just enjoy angering people of faith.

It was also to keep state governments from owning or controlling churches.  That was one of the reasons why the US was founded.  Religious freedom.  We've just taken it so much further than was was originally intended.

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Separation of church in state was penned by Thomas Jefferson in a letter.  The only thing said in the Federal Government was "Congress shall make no law".  How we go from that to removing the 10 commandments from courthouses is beyond me.

 

Connecticut had an official state religion until 1819 (Congregationalist), way past the signing of the Constitution.  The only thing federal was that there could be no national religion.  Last time I checked, none of the places that have had to remove religious symbols were mandated by Congress.

 

Unlike today, the Constitution was really more of a union of very independent states.  The European Union is in many ways more like the original intent of the Constitution than what we have today (except of course the EU isn't very pro-freedom).  The States had a whole lot of leeway into what they could do . . . . unlike today where States are more a subsidiary of the National government rather than an independent entity.

Edited by yjacket
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It was also to keep state governments from owning or controlling churches.  That was one of the reasons why the US was founded.  Religious freedom.  We've just taken it so much further than was was originally intended.

 

Not really, states did have official religions past the signing.  It was so there was no national religion and the states could do how they pleased, i.e. the state having a Congregationalist religion did not want 12 other Anglican states to tell it that it had to be Anglican.

Edited by yjacket
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Separation of church in state was penned by Thomas Jefferson in a letter.  The only thing said in the Federal Government was "Congress shall make no law".  How we go from that to removing the 10 commandments from courthouses is beyond me.

 

Connecticut had an official state religion until 1819 (Congregationalist), way past the signing of the Constitution.  The only thing federal was that there could be no national religion.  Last time I checked, none of the places that have had to remove religious symbols were mandated by Congress.

 

Unlike today, the Constitution was really more of a union of very independent states.  The European Union is in many ways more like the original intent of the Constitution than what we have today (except of course the EU isn't very pro-freedom).  The States had a whole lot of leeway into what they could do . . . . unlike today where States are more a subsidiary of the National government rather than an independent entity.

 

What does that even mean?!

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