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Thy Walls Are Continually Before Me


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#1 sixpacktr

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Posted 29 June 2007 - 06:32 AM

I have something I want to ask about. Last week in 4th Sunday PH meeting I taught about the gathering of Israel, based upon Elder Nelson's talk in Nov 2006. Anyway, there is a verse in the BOM and Bible that I love, how the Lord will always remember us, no matter what. But something is unclear to me. I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands: that means to me the crucifixion. He saved us, etc. But "thy walls are continually before me" stumped me. No one else had a really good answer to that either. So I'll ask you erudite ones: what is the meaning of this phrase. It has to be something very Jewish. Jason, PC, any thoughts? I know that both of you are very well read. Thanks in advance for the input...

That would not be difficult to express. I found most helpful to me was going to my knees thanking my HF for life, for experience, for my family, and then directly asking him to go before my face, to be on my right hand, to be on my left hand, and his spirit in my heart, and his angels round about me to bear me up. --Thomas S. Monson, Feb 4 2008 News conference upon becoming President of the LDS church.

The Two Enemies Of The People Are Criminals And Government, So Let Us Tie The Second Down With The Chains Of The Constitution, So The Second Will Not Become The Legalized Version Of The First
Thomas Jefferson


#2 Guest_Yediyd_*

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Posted 29 June 2007 - 06:43 AM

Six...this is just the gosple according to Yediyd, but... My take on that verse and the context of that verse is that G-d was speaking of the walls that the Isrealites had to build around themselves as protection from a world who hated them...G-d was and is aware of those walls and they are not all made of stone and morter. I think what he is saying is that he knows thier struggles and ours as well...our walls are before him, too. he sees and understands and loves us.

#3 sixpacktr

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Posted 29 June 2007 - 07:30 AM

Yed, Yeah, that was one of the possible interpretations brought up, i.e., that we build walls, or obstacles, and that our HF is mindful of them to help us over them. Not saying it isn't right, but since Isaiah was soooo Jewish and used a lot of allegory and symbolism, I was wondering if there was a meaning that has been lost (IOW, very Jewish) in our modern Western culture. But thanks for the input. :D

That would not be difficult to express. I found most helpful to me was going to my knees thanking my HF for life, for experience, for my family, and then directly asking him to go before my face, to be on my right hand, to be on my left hand, and his spirit in my heart, and his angels round about me to bear me up. --Thomas S. Monson, Feb 4 2008 News conference upon becoming President of the LDS church.

The Two Enemies Of The People Are Criminals And Government, So Let Us Tie The Second Down With The Chains Of The Constitution, So The Second Will Not Become The Legalized Version Of The First
Thomas Jefferson


#4 Guest_Yediyd_*

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Posted 29 June 2007 - 07:37 AM

Not sure, but I checked my Tanakh, and the word is translated as: "wall"...don't know further than that.... I'll be interested to see if there is some other signifcants as well...

#5 waterssf

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Posted 29 June 2007 - 09:45 AM

I have something I want to ask about. Last week in 4th Sunday PH meeting I taught about the gathering of Israel, based upon Elder Nelson's talk in Nov 2006. Anyway, there is a verse in the BOM and Bible that I love, how the Lord will always remember us, no matter what. But something is unclear to me.

I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands: that means to me the crucifixion. He saved us, etc.

But "thy walls are continually before me" stumped me. No one else had a really good answer to that either.

So I'll ask you erudite ones: what is the meaning of this phrase. It has to be something very Jewish. Jason, PC, any thoughts? I know that both of you are very well read.

Thanks in advance for the input...
[/b]


In Israel as in this day we have the Ten or basic commandments from God. If we adhere to those we have no need for any other law. We are slow to respond and fearful, so we make laws to help us keep the basic laws. A common example was when the Lord commanded us to keep the Sabbath day holy, Israel built walls around this commandment limiting and defining the law literally. So much so that the spirit of the law was lost and the Savior himself was accused of violating the law by healing a man on the Sabbath. Our walls are fear even though we are told by the Lord not to fear. :o

#6 sixpacktr

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Posted 29 June 2007 - 10:22 AM

Jim, That kind of falls into the walls we build ourselves that keep us from HF. To me, it is a continuation of the first part of the verse: I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands (and) thy walls are continually before me. But I could be wrong. Won't be the first time. Just ask my wife! :D

That would not be difficult to express. I found most helpful to me was going to my knees thanking my HF for life, for experience, for my family, and then directly asking him to go before my face, to be on my right hand, to be on my left hand, and his spirit in my heart, and his angels round about me to bear me up. --Thomas S. Monson, Feb 4 2008 News conference upon becoming President of the LDS church.

The Two Enemies Of The People Are Criminals And Government, So Let Us Tie The Second Down With The Chains Of The Constitution, So The Second Will Not Become The Legalized Version Of The First
Thomas Jefferson


#7 Dr T

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Posted 29 June 2007 - 10:26 AM

See, I have inscribed you on the palms of My hands: This has obvious and beautiful fulfillment in the nail-scarred hands of Jesus. As Jesus told Thomas in a post-resurrection appearance, look at My hands (John 20:27). When we see the nail-scarred hands of Jesus, we see how He has inscribed us on the palms of His hands. With such love, how could God ever forget His people?

Your walls are continually before Me: The walls refer to the walls of the city of Jerusalem, which figuratively speak of the health, the strength, the prosperity, and the security of God’s people. God is always mindful of the condition of His people, despite the objections of a doubting Zion.
To base thought only on speech is to try nailing whispers to the wall. Writing freezes thought and offers it up for inspection Jack Rosenthal

#8 MaidservantX

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Posted 29 June 2007 - 11:07 AM

This is my favorite scripture. It blew me away the first time I read it.
"Mormonism" is a system which . . . if carried out . . . [will] fulfill the sayings of the Prophets, both ancient and modern, put down all wickedness, abuse, proscription, misrule, oppression, ignorance, darkness, and tyranny, and restore mankind to righteousness, truth, liberty, law, and government, in which the Lord's will [shall] be done on the earth as it is in heaven. That is what "Mormonism" will do, when carried out . . . (JD 1:297-309).

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#9 sixpacktr

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Posted 29 June 2007 - 11:13 AM

Xhenli, This passage (I love the part "they may forget, but I will NEVER forget), and Nephi's soliloquy (sp??) in 2nd Nephi 4 have been long time favorites...So much hope, you know? :)

That would not be difficult to express. I found most helpful to me was going to my knees thanking my HF for life, for experience, for my family, and then directly asking him to go before my face, to be on my right hand, to be on my left hand, and his spirit in my heart, and his angels round about me to bear me up. --Thomas S. Monson, Feb 4 2008 News conference upon becoming President of the LDS church.

The Two Enemies Of The People Are Criminals And Government, So Let Us Tie The Second Down With The Chains Of The Constitution, So The Second Will Not Become The Legalized Version Of The First
Thomas Jefferson


#10 MaidservantX

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Posted 29 June 2007 - 11:37 AM

Yes, 2 Ne 4 is also a wonderful passage. You say hope. I would add to that -- sometimes especially in Isaiah it is more like an ecstatic rejoicing like a symphony, like a sky of stars, like a tiny infant -- you know we talk about the depth of the pain of the atonement that was laid on the Savior; I think there is a matching heighth of rejoicing -- and we get a glimpse of it in some passages. Here are a few more: 2 Ne 1:15 Isaiah 54 (all, but 7-10) Doctrine & Covenants 128:19-23
"Mormonism" is a system which . . . if carried out . . . [will] fulfill the sayings of the Prophets, both ancient and modern, put down all wickedness, abuse, proscription, misrule, oppression, ignorance, darkness, and tyranny, and restore mankind to righteousness, truth, liberty, law, and government, in which the Lord's will [shall] be done on the earth as it is in heaven. That is what "Mormonism" will do, when carried out . . . (JD 1:297-309).

City of Enoch

#11 CrimsonKairos

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Posted 29 June 2007 - 02:01 PM

Here's what I found. The word translated as "walls" is the Hebrew word khomah.

Read the definition on that hyperlink. It does mention the walls of Jerusalem, but also the metaphorical chasteness of virgins.
he hath poured out his soul unto death...and he bare the sin of many
Isa. 53:12

Therefore while he was on the earth, he offered for a sacrifice his own life for the sins of the people
JST Heb. 8:4

For these are they whose sins he has borne; these are they for whom he has died, to redeem them from their transgressions
Mos. 15:12

And so it was made known among the dead...that redemption had been wrought through the sacrifice of the Son of God upon the cross.
D&C 138:35

#12 sixpacktr

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Posted 29 June 2007 - 02:46 PM

Here's what I found. The word translated as "walls" is the Hebrew word khomah.

Read the definition on that hyperlink. It does mention the walls of Jerusalem, but also the metaphorical chasteness of virgins.
[/b]

So perhaps when the Lord says "thy walls are continually before me" he is stating that they will be regathered to the Holy City, Jerusalem, again? That although he was prophesying destruction, in the end he would remember and gather them in again?

That would not be difficult to express. I found most helpful to me was going to my knees thanking my HF for life, for experience, for my family, and then directly asking him to go before my face, to be on my right hand, to be on my left hand, and his spirit in my heart, and his angels round about me to bear me up. --Thomas S. Monson, Feb 4 2008 News conference upon becoming President of the LDS church.

The Two Enemies Of The People Are Criminals And Government, So Let Us Tie The Second Down With The Chains Of The Constitution, So The Second Will Not Become The Legalized Version Of The First
Thomas Jefferson


#13 Guest_Yediyd_*

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Posted 29 June 2007 - 03:57 PM

I'm not sure...I still go with my original hypothisis.

#14 CrimsonKairos

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Posted 29 June 2007 - 06:21 PM

I think if you read that passage from Isaiah, and then immediately read Christ's lament for Jerusalem, a more complete picture or story emerges. As in:

Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands; thy walls are continually before me. (Isaiah 49:16)

And:

Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,

Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!
(Luke 13: 23-24, 34)

Jehovah/Christ's continual, loving attention to the Israelites is powerfully manifest in these passages, as is his piercing sorrow at their rebellion.
he hath poured out his soul unto death...and he bare the sin of many
Isa. 53:12

Therefore while he was on the earth, he offered for a sacrifice his own life for the sins of the people
JST Heb. 8:4

For these are they whose sins he has borne; these are they for whom he has died, to redeem them from their transgressions
Mos. 15:12

And so it was made known among the dead...that redemption had been wrought through the sacrifice of the Son of God upon the cross.
D&C 138:35

#15 danielmhair

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 05:50 AM

I know that this post was long ago, but studying this phrase at BYU in an Isaiah class, I researched it and saw this post and thought to comment. What you guys have said have also helped me. My professor stated that in the ancient times, people would make a spike of clay (as far as my memory serves me right, it was clay) to where they would put their contracts on, then they would fire it up to make it sealed and would hang it on the wall. Jesus Christ made a contract, or a covenant with us in the palms of His hands (the spike in this case is the nails of the cross) and was hung on the cross (that was his wall). "Thy walls are continually before me." In other words, "Thy covenants I made to you are continually before me"






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