Mormon concept of hell


JacoJohnson
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Hi all,

I've been a member for my whole life and have always struggled with our religion's concept of spirit prison on who goes there.

 

I'm struggling because I have several good friends of other faiths who are more devout than I am, probably more righteous, provide more service, more faith, etc. From what I've been taught, these people (who actually have been contacted by the missionaries and "rejected" mormonism) will go to hell/spirit prison.

 

Spirit prison from what I understand, is hell.  According to Alma 40:

 

12 And then shall it come to pass, that the spirits of those who are righteous are received into a state of happiness, which is called paradise, a state of rest, a state of peace, where they shall rest from all their troubles and from all care, and sorrow.

13 And then shall it come to pass, that the spirits of the wicked, yea, who are evil—for behold, they have no part nor portion of the Spirit of the Lord; for behold, they chose evil works rather than good; therefore the spirit of the devil did enter into them, and take possession of their house—and these shall be cast out into outer darkness; there shall be weeping, and wailing, and gnashing of teeth, and this because of their own iniquity, being led captive by the will of the devil.

14 Now this is the state of the souls of the wicked, yea, in darkness, and a state of awful, fearful looking for the fiery indignation of the wrath of God upon them; thus they remain in this state, as well as the righteous in paradise, until the time of their resurrection.

 

To ME this says that my friends will go paradise after they die.  HOWEVER, we are taught that those who do not accept the restored gospel in this life will go to prison (hell).

 

According to the Gospel Principles manual:

"Spirit Prison

The Apostle Peter referred to the postmortal spirit world as a prison, which it is for some (see 1 Peter 3:18–20). In the spirit prison are the spirits of those who have not yet received the gospel of Jesus Christ. These spirits have agency and may be enticed by both good and evil. If they accept the gospel and the ordinances performed for them in the temples, they may leave the spirit prison and dwell in paradise.

Also in the spirit prison are those who rejected the gospel after it was preached to them either on earth or in the spirit prison. These spirits suffer in a condition known as hell. They have removed themselves from the mercy of Jesus Christ, who said, “Behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent; but if they would not repent they must suffer even as I; which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit” (D&C 19:16–18). After suffering for their sins, they will be allowed, through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, to inherit the lowest degree of glory, which is the telestial kingdom."

 

 

So what I'm trying to understand is why my friend should go to hell (spirit prison) after having lived such a good life and why not paradise ?  Is prison divided up into those who suffer "hell" and those who are simply waiting to be taught and if so why does not Alma describe such a condition instead of just describing the suffering?

 

My other concern about mormon theology is that I feel like we as members feel like everything will be well after we all die because EVERYONE (except sons of perdition) will be resurrected to a kingdom of glory.  I feel like because of this understanding we get apathetic towards missionary work ("I can just baptize them after they die") because everything will work out, so to speak.  God will beat the wicked in prison with a "few stripes" but afterwards the wicked will be saved in the telestial kingdom, a kingdom of glory beyond anything we can imagine (or is it?  The temple describes this world as the telestial kingdom).   With that attitude where is the urgency that we are expected to have to share the gospel ("warn our neighbor")? A baptist friend of mine almost fell over when I told him we believe that most everyone goes to heaven.  However, after his reaction I went back and read Alma's words and realized that we do believe in hell but we call it spirit prison.  So, I'm confused.

 

Any thoughts?

 

JJ

 

 

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I suggest reading Doctrine and Covenants section 76.

Pretty much it boils to how soon and how much we accept christ. Also spirit prison doesn't necessarily equate to being left to the torments of the devil (altho someone in prison can recieve that). Compared to paradise even this life could be considered a form of hell, depending on how one views it.

 

I also agree it's easy to get into the take for granted type apathetic mood.

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The problem is you are assuming your have enough information to judge your friends like God does, that is always a mistake.

 

We are here to see if we will do all things the Lord commands.  If you know God want you to do something and you don't you will suffer the consequence of that (and you really should be focused more on your own failings rather then your friends)

 

However we have to learn the will of the Lord before that happens.  You say your friend listened and did not accept the Missionaries... We assume that the missionaries were successful in getting them to feel the spirit and understanding the will of the Lord in that matter,  but we have to acknowledge that it does not always work that way.  Therefore it is quite possible your friends have not rejected the Gospel but are in a state of still not knowing were to find it.  If this holds true, then from your description its possible your friends are in a better state before God then you are.

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I suggest reading Doctrine and Covenants section 76.

Pretty much it boils to how soon and how much we accept christ. Also spirit prison doesn't necessarily equate to being left to the torments of the devil (altho someone in prison can recieve that). Compared to paradise even this life could be considered a form of hell, depending on how one views it.

 

I also agree it's easy to get into the take for granted type apathetic mood.

 

 

D & C 76:89 And thus we saw, in the heavenly vision, the glory of the telestial, which surpasses all understanding;

 

In the temple we are told that the telestial kingdom is equivalent to the world we now live in.   Why the contradiction b/t the temple and the verse above?

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In my life some of the best people I have ever met or been associated with have been non members.

 

They are not going to prison/hell

 

You need to understand that anything compared to the highest degree of glory is akin to hell for those who do not obtain it.  Why would any rational person when given the opportunity not choose to sit at the right hand of God?  Your friends if they are good Christians will have the opportunity to do so either in this life or the next.  It is possible they will be held in higher standing than you based on knowledge and relative level of righteousness.  

 

Don't confuse Alma with D&C.  Outer-darkness is reserved only for the worst of the worst.  Not you or your friends.

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D & C 76:89 And thus we saw, in the heavenly vision, the glory of the telestial, which surpasses all understanding;

 

In the temple we are told that the telestial kingdom is equivalent to the world we now live in.   Why the contradiction b/t the temple and the verse above?

 

The LDS temple liturgy (and, indeed, even its architecture) draws a parallel between the Telestial, Terrestrial, and Celestial worlds; versus the fallen earth, the millennial earth (cleansed once), and the celestialized earth (cleansed a second time). 

 

The analogy is a good one in several ways--perhaps most notably, in describing the degree of companionship the inhabitants enjoy with the Father.  But the analogy, like all analogies, has its limits.  For example, in the world in which we now live, Satan has not yet been bound and death and pain are yet to be conquered.  Even those who ultimately receive a Telestial glory will find themselves free of those particular impediments.

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The Teachings of the Presidents of the Church manual for Brigham Young has the best lesson ever on the spirit world.  Here's the link to it.  I have used quotes from it for three different funerals.  It was amazing how comforting these teachings were to the nonmembers present at the services.  

 

https://www.lds.org/manual/teachings-brigham-young/chapter-38?lang=eng

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In my life some of the best people I have ever met or been associated with have been non members.

 

They are not going to prison/hell

 

You need to understand that anything compared to the highest degree of glory is akin to hell for those who do not obtain it.  Why would any rational person when given the opportunity not choose to sit at the right hand of God?  Your friends if they are good Christians will have the opportunity to do so either in this life or the next.  It is possible they will be held in higher standing than you based on knowledge and relative level of righteousness.  

 

Don't confuse Alma with D&C.  Outer-darkness is reserved only for the worst of the worst.  Not you or your friends.

I disagree.  Whatever kingdom of glory a person ends up in will fit their own level of desire and capacity.  One would find it a "hell" to be in a level too high for their own capacity, like trying to live on the surface of the sun.

 

If I put my 10 year old in Medical School, it would be "hell" for her to sit there and listen to those lectures and not be able to do the things most 10 year olds do in school.  A telestial individual would find it to be overwhelming and uncomfortable to be in a Celestial environment even if they had at one time desired to be there.  When everything is said and done the Telestial being will be happy in their place.  The plan of Salvation is one of happiness, maximizing the happiness for all, even those that find their self in the Telestial Kingdom in the end.

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As an Evangelical Protestant, the hell I believe in is much larger than that conceived in LDS teaching.  Nevertheless, even if one person ends up in "outer darkness," we have to come to grips with this truth.

 

1.  Do we believe God is good and just?

2.  Does God prefer mercy to justice?

3.  If so, is hell just?  Is it good?

 

Our post-modern-thought-saturated society rebels against the doctrine of hell.  A good God does not judge, does not punish.  No one can say what is really right or wrong.  The good Buddhist is better than the casual LDS.

 

Let God be God.  Trust in Him.  Whether the LDS teaching is correct (that hell is small, and we have many chances to avoid it), or the Evangelical understanding is true (that there will be many rejecters of God in it, and that there will be no second chances after death)--either way, if God established it, it's just.  It's right.  Heavenly Father will judge correctly.  When we see as He sees there will not be one objection to those souls damned to hell--be they few or many.

 

I am saddened that many of my fellow Evangelicals have abandoned this doctrine--or intentionally neglected it.  We are so fearful of society, and its current trends and moods.  Teach truth, and let God's will fall as it may.

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D & C 76:89 And thus we saw, in the heavenly vision, the glory of the telestial, which surpasses all understanding;

 

In the temple we are told that the telestial kingdom is equivalent to the world we now live in.   Why the contradiction b/t the temple and the verse above?

it's symbolic. the telestial glory is still better than this life, but its the one we are closest to in similarity.

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it's symbolic. the telestial glory is still better than this life, but its the one we are closest to in similarity.

One of its similarities is in the idea that here we have diversity, variability and inequality, as one star differs from another.  Whereas, the glory of the sun is one and the glory of the moon is one.

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In the post-mortal life we will know and remember things from our pre-mortal life that we currently do not. I believe that one of those things that we do not adequately remember from our pre-mortal life is joy and excitement about God's plan of salvation and our happiness at the opportunities it provides to learn and progress. In the post mortal life, when we remember these things, and then remember that, like your friends, some of us rejected this plan, I believe that knowing that we rejected something that we previously knew provided us with the greatest opportunity for the greatest possible happiness, will generate a mental/emotional that could be described as hell.

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