Stuck in between a rock and a hard place.


Recommended Posts

My wife is a sweet woman that was raised like all LDS women and that is to be obedient and respect authority. She felt that her kindness for other members were not reciprocated back to her over the years and she was feeling overall burned out from church.

 

 

Edited by priesthoodpower
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm sorry for what you are going thru, that has to be hard. I myself have been thru divorce. 

 

IMHO I just don't feel that someone leaving the Church justifies divorce. I read an article but forgot the name of a very outspoken women who left the Church and spent years writing anti-mormon literature. She recently returned. Her husband thru those any years remained faithful to her and to the Church.

 

It can be done. I read a book about helping Children develop resilience and one of the things that brought me comfort was when the author mentioned that studies show as long as there is one positive, good influence in their lives that they will turn out ok. In other words, your spouse may not be on the same page...as long as one of you is on the right page it will be ok.

 

Because of your wife’s choices your children may have the option earlier to leave their faith. I say earlier, because eventually everyone grows up and makes their own choices. I think your influence will be stronger under one roof then it would be split. And perhaps just seeing them on the weekends.

 

I don't mean to be offensive but your wife’s demonstrated ignorance when she calls you a hypocrite for not being perfect is only matched by your ignorance that you can't have the church in your life and be married to someone that's not a member.

 

 

It certainly does not speak well of our faith and its values regarding the family if we abandon each other when we slip and fall. Our faith should be stronger than that.

 

If I were you and wanted an Eternal Family, I would tell your wife it's ok for her to leave the Church. Assure her that you are committed to her. I'd would discuss with her that it's important to you that your kids attend church and ask for her support in establishing rules and come up with a timeline. I would think 18 is old enough for kids to make up their own minds about attending Church. Up till then if you are supporting them under your roof, the Children need to attend. It's not going to be easy..a house divided and all...but I wouldn't entertain divorce

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree with Windseeker. Divorce is not the answer. If she's truly made up her mind that the LDS Church is not for her, then that's something you're going to have to come to peace with. If she's willing, you can talk to her about her reasons for abandoning the faith. Maybe that will help here let go of some of the anger. Regardless though, it seems that she has made her decision, and that needs to be respected.

 

As for the kids, there will come a time when they will have to make up their own minds. In the meantime, it might not be a bad idea for you to find ways to get them to church without making your wife go with them. See if another family can give them a ride. If they're old enough, maybe your wife could drop them off and pick them up at the end of the 3-hour block. That way your kids will still get the exposure to church that you want them to have, and your wife won't be forced to sit through it against her will.

 

Maintaining a healthy relationship with someone with different religious beliefs can be very hard. My wife and I struggled quite a bit when we were dating and it didn't get easier until she renounced Catholicism (a decision she made completely outside of my influence). You two started on common ground. It's time to remind yourself why you married her. Was it strictly because she was an eligible single LDS woman, or was there something that transcended religion that made you fall in love with her?  Focus on the things that unite you two and your differences will seem less problematic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree with the two other  comments given above.  Marriages go thru roof times as well as good times, with time we also change.  It is unfortunate that your wife has became anti, hopefully this will just be for a season.It happens Satans time is short he will try us and he wants all to fall.  Id stay stick it out love  your wife, continue to support each other, continue to communcate with each other on all leveles,  and love her back, but dont force her, she has her free agency.  Treat your marriage as if you were married to a nonmember.  Will this be easy for you, her and the children, probably not.  You stay strong in your faith, keep the commandments, live the church ways in your home with the children if she doesnt want to join, dont get upset or hurt, or even mad.  Not one of us is perfect, we all have weakness.  Hold on to your Spiritually strengh let this make you stronger this is your big trail now (its your whole familys) The Lord knew it wouldnt be easy, but He said it will be worth it!!!!  Let her see you praying for your family, for her, put her name in the Temple.  Above all alse dont stop loving her.  We are all tested.  It is the last days lots of temptation and anti stuff out there, Tread softly, tread gently.  The Lord wont give up on her, so why should you. It can work just needs time and a different focus for you to look at.   God will Bless you through this, hold on tight.....Stay close to the spirit!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For years your wife has looked up to church leaders.  Now she’s found out that they’re not what she thought, and she feels betrayed.  She’s angry, she’s bitter.  And she needs a hug. 

 

Love you wife as you always have.  She’s going through a really tough time, and needs you to be there for her.  Listen to what she feels—you don’t have to agree with her, but let her speak her very real emotions.  Wherever her path leads, listen to her and love her.  Healing from this level of hurt will take a long time, and she needs you.

 

As to the children… my two cents would be rather than telling them “don’t believe this, don’t believe that”, is to tell them things TO believe.  Your wife believes that Jesus is her savior, have her teach them that!  Teach them positive things you believe as well (like their values as children of God).  Join forces with your wife in that regard.  As to things like whether or not JS was a prophet, take that off the table for 6 months or so, until your grown-up wounds have healed. 

Edited by Jane_Doe
Link to comment
Share on other sites

One more thought...and this may just be my rebellious streak...but had my father left my mother because she lost her faith, I may be more prone to developing negative feelings regarding that faith.

 

Sitting in Primary and singing "Families can be together forever" would be much easier holding to hope that my mother might come back to the faith then trying to understand how my father could love this religion so much he broke our family for it. 

 

It still brings tears to my eyes thinking of that moment, when my 10 year old daughter, frantic and grieving,  asked me "What happened to Families are Forever?!". 

 

The sad part is I still can't answer that to this day even to my satisfaction. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am amazed that your spouse is wiling to bring the children to the ward, and attend herself.  That speaks well of the strength you two have built in your marriage over the years.  Perhaps you could ask your wife not to feed the children anti-LDS ideas, with the understanding that she would be honest and open about answering any questions they had.  In other words, she should not lie about what she now believes, but she could at least agree not to proslyte against the faith you initially agreed to.  Beyond agreeing on how to balance respecting her agency against your interest in raising the children in the faith, I'd suggest love and patience.  Others have experience with interfaith marriages, and can advise better than me.  I agree, though, that divorce should only come if she chooses to leave. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you all sooooo very much, I know that the Bishop is our spiritual leader for our ward but I dont think I would have gotten most of these insights from him. I am truly feeling the spirit and I know you guys speak with the spirit because I can feel it and it is telling me to stick it out and love her like how Christ will always love her.






 

Edited by priesthoodpower
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I got to admit, I'm bothered by your wife's behavior. I'm very much in the "believe what you want" camp, but constant criticism is not okay and is clearly harming your marriage. I agree, your wife probably needs to vent and be heard by her husband (that being you). But you're struggling under all her criticism. If you haven't brought it up with her, do so. Let her know that you are satisfied in your faith and require respect. I hope you are respecting her faith choice here so you can ask the same. Ask for limits on what she can be nasty about, for your sake. Also, I suggest that if she doesn't want to go to church, she shouldn't. Are your kids old enough to attend alone? Sit down as a family and decide what to do about religion, what boundaries and expectations there are.

Why? Because you deserve to practice your religion in your own home without criticism. So do your wife and kids.

You can have your faith and your wife, but only if both you and your wife agree to it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

hindsight is 20/20 and so I will admit that had I have been less of a jerk in our relationship and more true to the real meaning of what it means to holding and honoring my priesthood I dont think the little arrows that satan has shot at us would have stuck.

 

 

Edited by priesthoodpower
Link to comment
Share on other sites

A very difficult situation that you find yourself in and I will start off by saying that  the things you should be doing will be found through prayer, meditation, scripture reading and attending church.

 

My 2 cents.  I like windseeker cannot see this as a justification for divorce and I think phrasing the question as my wife or beliefs is a false dichotomy.  You can have both your wife and your beliefs.  

 

I think to be honest the hardest thing (at least for me) would be can I learn to live with someone who doesn't share my religious beliefs, especially when it is something that we had in common to start.  Our religious beliefs are some of the most personal thoughts we have and no one has the right to force us to try and believe in something that we don't.  Persuade, yes, force, no.

 

I personally think this ""So as long as we are raising our kids together you will continue to support them in attendance of sunday meetings and weekly church activities".

is a really bad idea.  If her heart isn't into attending church, forcing her to take the kids will invite all manner of ill-will and pushback.  

 

Your kids are a little older, but still 3 young kids in sacrament meeting isn't a cakewalk and if she is only doing it b/c you told her to . . . it doesn't surprise me in the least that she is taking them to McDonalds or Walmart on Sunday.

 

I think this is a really great opportunity for you to change things in your life for the better.  I have no idea what job you have or what it may require (it could be a nurse or police), but the message that you are sending your kids is very conflicted.

 

From a child's perspective, on the one hand, Mom doesn't like church but is forced to go and on the other hand Dad loves church but doesn't go.  If I'm a kid I'd end up siding with mom b/c actions speak louder than words.

 

So my advice is 

1) Let your wife do whatever she wants with regards to the church; if she wants to attend meetings great, if not great.

2) Pull whatever strings you have to so you can attend church (even for 1 hour)

3) Let either home teachers, Elder's quorum president, bishopric (someone you trust, doesn't have to be all of them) know of the situation and tell them you need help getting your kids to/from church and activities.

4) Take the lead in religious matters, do not expect or ask your wife to do anything religious wise.  We always read scriptures after dinner, so read at the dinner table-if she doesn't want to be there she can clean up.  Take the lead in FHE, if she doesn't want to be there, that's okay.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Newbie I'm sorry to hear about the rebellion of your wife that is a tough situation. Ultimately people do what they want to do. Very few individuals in my experience come back from rebellion without hearache. So ultimately she must move her way around the pride cycle by herself.

 

You must determine if your marriage is viable. Divorce is terrible and should be avoided but life goes on after divorce. However as the spiritual leader of your family you must protect your children from your wife. No more anti stuff at home. A "Nephi--Laban" situation may occur. It is better one relationship die than the eternal salvation of many being risked. Good luck.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Godless

Why has she taken this "all or nothing" stance toward our church, is she doing it to hurt me because she knows I treasure my religion (no matter what level of worship I am currently at)?

Probably not. It's very likely that it has nothing to do with you. She probably feels like she's been betrayed by the church and now she's lashing out during this time of frustration and confusion. Leaving the faith that you were raised in is a very agonizing experience (been there, done that). People who go through that suffer through a whirlwind of emotions while they desperately try to rebuild their worldview. Anger and resentment are pretty common. She needs your support right now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 10/1/2014 at 9:16 PM, Godless said:

....People who go through that suffer through a whirlwind of emotions while they desperately try to rebuild their worldview. Anger and resentment are pretty common. She needs your support right now.

 

Thank you!

Edited by priesthoodpower
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Probably not. It's very likely that it has nothing to do with you. She probably feels like she's been betrayed by the church and now she's lashing out during this time of frustration and confusion. Leaving the faith that you were raised in is a very agonizing experience (been there, done that). People who go through that suffer through a whirlwind of emotions while they desperately try to rebuild their worldview. Anger and resentment are pretty common. She needs your support right now.

This is true. She is going through a big transition period. She needs support. But part of that support is boundaries and the responsibility of recognizing how her choices are affecting her loved ones. She's in a family, it's not just about her. Just like it's not just about priesthoodpower.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

At some point you have to make a decision. You certainly have a toxic environment at home. But from what you have written I think you equally share the responsibility. Do you think your wife feels loved right now? Do you think she feels heard or listened too? 

 

Threatening divorce is not going to fix things for you or your family. That really needs to stop right now. It's coercion and using it in your home is against the oath and covenant of the Priesthood that you hold. 

 

I know your frustrated and desperate but you can't resort to threats. 

 

 

"Coercion—physical or psychological—is not appropriate. Coercive behavior includes physical and verbal abuse, threats, shouting, manipulating, withdrawing love, and shaming. While coercion may lead to momentary obedience or compliance, it rarely results in a long-term solution."

 

"...when we undertake to cover our sins, or to gratify our pride, our vain ambition, or to exercise control or dominion or compulsion upon the souls of the children of men, in any degree of unrighteousness, behold, the heavens withdraw themselves; the Spirit of the Lord is grieved; and when it is withdrawn, Amen to the priesthood or the authority of that man."

 

In my opinion...coercion is always unrighteous because it's the opposite of Charity. 

 

 

"No power or influence can or ought to be maintained by virtue of the priesthood, only by persuasion, by long-suffering, by gentleness and meekness, and by love unfeigned;

 
By kindness, and pure knowledge, which shall greatly enlarge the soul without hypocrisy, and without guile—
 
Reproving betimes with sharpness, when moved upon by the Holy Ghost; and then showing forth afterwards an increase of love toward him whom thou hast reproved, lest he esteem thee to be his enemy"
 
..."Charity suffereth long"

 

I don't see considering divorce an option unless one of the 3 A's (Abuse, Addiction, Adultery) become prevalent.. 

 

...the things that led to my divorce were #1 Not paying tithing, #2 Pornography (a slow caustic once a month addiction) 3# Verbal abuse  #4 Not loving my wife, not listening to her (love=listen) and ignoring her needs (time together).

 

Long story short, she left me and our four kids even though I forgave her after her multiple affairs. Then she moved in with some men. It was at that point that I decided it would be best if we divorced.

 

Have you heard of the Love Bucket analogy? I think if you could see your wife's it might just be handle with a rusted out ring. I think that's what happened to my wife. I changed, I forgave, I begged and pleaded for the sake of our kids, but she literally told me "I can't stop". She had completely lost her ability to control herself and her decisions. Years later, She has so much regret now, she struggles with alcohol. 

 

I'm remarried (temple) and moved across the country. It's been hard, my youngest daughter attempted suicide a couple months ago, she moved in with her Mom. It was hard letting her go, but she was angry and blamed me for everything. Before the summer was over she called me in tears wanting to move back home. She felt bad how she treated me and wanted to mend things. She changed after living with her mom, it's been a blessing having her back...she is so much happier lately and just awesome to be around.  

 

This second marriage has been hard, easily twice as hard as my first, but things are getting much, much better. I've learned somethings. I'm not perfect but I've changed allot. I wanted to end my life because everything I thought mattered I failed at.

 

So I pulled a jiujitsu  :yinyang:  move on myself and did end my life, figuratively.

 

I'm still not satisfied with who I am, I still fall way short. But some things have become clear to me. "if ye have not charity, ye are nothing"...how powerful is that? Our first calling is to Love and our second is to Forgive. Remember? "..On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." ..in other words...are you putting the law and the prophets above the thing they are hanging on? 

 

I'm telling you all this because I've been in your shoes. I'm telling you, you have to work on your marriage. If your ready to change then you can start by forgiving your wife, and asking her forgiveness. You've got to get back to what really matters. You can only change yourself. You can't change her. There are simply no guarantees in life. Your spouse is walking a dangerous path for sure, you should be concerned and you're in a very difficult position. 

 

The best thing you can do...really the only thing you can do is start living the Gospel..not perfect family prayer, family home evenings, 100% home teaching...and all that fun stuff...

 

no...

 

Go back and work on the real stuff, the stuff you learn in primary. Stuff like "As I have loved you, Love one another", and "I want to be kind to everyone" and "Do as I'm doing..follow follow me"

 

...remember without this stuff...we are nothing.

 

"Once there was a Snowman... :snowman: j/k 

 

I live in the highest baptizing Stake in the U.S. 3 years running, our Stake President said the Mission Field starts in our homes...if your wife does not experience the fruits of the gospel in her own home and marriage then what's the point of all this? When we returned home from our missions and got married, we jumped right back into the "mission field".  In any mission field we can't force anyone, just love them and hope they make the right decisions. 

 

...sorry for the length...dang!  :disclaimer:

Edited by Windseeker
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You chose the name Priesthood Power...

 

Perhaps you should read and learn and then apply how to really have that

 

D&C 121

36 That the rights of the priesthood are inseparably connected with the powers of heaven, and that the powers of heaven cannot be controlled nor handled only upon the principles of righteousness.

37 That they may be conferred upon us, it is true; but when we undertake to cover our sins, or to gratify our pride, our vain ambition, or to exercise control or dominion or compulsion upon the souls of the children of men, in any degree of unrighteousness, behold, the heavens withdraw themselves; the Spirit of the Lord is grieved; and when it is withdrawn, Amen to the priesthood or the authority of that man.

41 No power or influence can or ought to be maintained by virtue of the priesthood, only by persuasion, by long-suffering, by gentleness and meekness, and by love unfeigned;

42 By kindness, and pure knowledge, which shall greatly enlarge the soul without hypocrisy, and without guile—

 

The moment the words Force or Compulsion describe what you do you lose.  Burn that into your brain.  And as hard as it is learn to Stop It

 

Your wife is an agent unto herself.  Her rebellion grieves God more then it could possibly grieve you.  And yet in spite of this he will not cross over to Force or Compulsion.  How can you possibly think to be justified in crossing a line that God himself will not cross?

 

Your only real option at this point is to become the Husband, Father, Priesthood holder that we all should be, that God wants us to be.

 

It is not going to be easy digging yourself out of this pit, but embracing and emulating the Love of Christ is your best way back up.

 

Good luck

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Godless

Are you saying that I should support her in her transition in living a non-mormon lifestyle by letting her know that its ok? I find that hard to accept. For example shopping on Sundays is something that I do not want my kids to get used to, if I dont resist and point out that it is breaking the sabbath when my wife does it then the kids will think that it is ok.

 

You should be supporting her emotional needs during what has to be a very difficult time in her life. I'm not saying you have to condone or even fully support her new "lifestyle", but she needs some sense of independence while she sorts things out. You're probably not going to like some of the choices she makes. That's something you can address in a respectful and open-minded manner. Ultimately, you're both going to have to make some concessions if you want to keep your family together.

 

 

she also started wearing tank tops, yesterday she went a step further in "finding her new self" and wore a strap less (tube top type) summer dress. It shows too much skin and I would never have dated any girl that had dress standards like that

 

 

Have you talked to her about it? Maybe she's dressing this way because she feels neglected and wants to get your attention. Maybe she senses that your marriage is on thin ice and wants to show you how beautiful she is. Maybe she's doing it to convince herself that she's still beautiful. Have an open conversation with her about it. Let her know that she doesn't need to dress that way to impress you.

 

 

 

so far I have been successful in threatening her into obeying the basics for the purpose of being an example for our kids. For example in the early stages of her rebelllion she was teaching the kids anti-mormon material and I told her in private that she needs to stop that immediately or im leaving her so that i can raise them righteously in my own household, she did stop but still has a lowsy attitude toward all things church. Next she was slacking off on attending church on time, always coming in with the kids right after the sacrament was done (I have meetings b4 church so Im in the sacrament hall early saving a row for our family). I told her that its is my job to raise them the same way me (and her) was raised and get them to the age of 18 when they can start to make their own decisions, if she is not going to bring them to church on time im going to have our neighbor member pick them up to bring them on time, that worked too and so she has been on time lately, i think the embarasement of someone else taking over her motherly responsibilities is what motivated her in that situation.

 

 

Emphasis mine. That's a very alarming statement. With that kind of mindset, I think Windseeker is 100% correct when he said that you need to stop focusing on the specific things that make someone a "good Mormon" in the eye of the beholder and try to create a loving environment at home. All of your commandment-keeping means nothing if your family is broken. Fix that first. That warm feeling that your church calls "the Spirit" will never be felt in a home that is built on submission and coercion. Make your home a place that's filled with compassion and respect.

 

 

Ten years ago I had an older relative who cheated on his wife when their kids were around the age of 8yrs old. Instead of reconciling, the wife divorced and found another man that was temple worthy. Today those kids are 18 and 19 and they are both serving missions. What I learned from watching this family is that the wife made a decision to not deal with anytype of crap and she wanted nothing less then an ideal mormon household for her kids. The kids are way, way humble and the most ideal mormon kids, they still love their Dad and have a great relationship with him. On the other hand I have observed plenty of part member families through out the years and I notice more often the kids are more easily influenced to go astray at an early age.

 

 

I hate to say it, but I think that's a risk you should take. Your wife has her free agency, and so do your kids. They'll make up their own minds when the time is right. And to be quite honest, your decision to stay or leave isn't as much of a factor as you think. The bigger influence is how your treat both them and your wife. Trying to force your kids into a life of righteousness is a dangerous game regardless of whether or not your wife is in the picture.

 

Overzealous religious upbringing was a significant factor in my decision to leave the church, and one of my close friends made the same decision for very similar reasons. Both of us had two very devout LDS parents. Loving parents, make no mistake, but maybe a bit too eager to keep us on the straight and narrow sometimes. We've mended things over time, but it was a long and difficult healing process for all parties involved. My younger siblings were raised with a much less heavy hand (you always make more mistakes with the first one, and my parents have acknowledged that), and they're all still very faithful in the church. I don't think that's a coincidence.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Godless

I bit my tongue yesterday, but now I feel compelled to mention that this statement caused me some alarm when I first read it:

 

my wife is a sweet woman that was raised like all LDS women and that is to be obedient and respect authority.

 

Your wife is your companion, someone with whom you should be trying to create a loving family environment, not someone for you to control and exercise authority over. Part of what makes a strong marriage is the ability to overcome differences and accept the fact that your partner may not always fit your ideal mold for her. You love her for who she is, not who you want her to be.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Are you saying that I should support her in her transition in living a non-mormon lifestyle by letting her know that its ok? I find that hard to accept. For example shopping on Sundays is something that I do not want my kids to get used to, if I dont resist and point out that it is breaking the sabbath when my wife does it then the kids will think that it is ok.

 

she also started wearing tank tops, yesterday she went a step further in "finding her new self" and wore a strap less (tube top type) summer dress. It shows too much skin and I would never have dated any girl that had dress standards like that, whats even worse is that we have daughters and I worked my tail end off teaching them about mormon dress standards ever since they were born.

 

so far I have been successful in threatening her into obeying the basics for the purpose of being an example for our kids. For example in the early stages of her rebelllion she was teaching the kids anti-mormon material and I told her in private that she needs to stop that immediately or im leaving her so that i can raise them righteously in my own household, she did stop but still has a lowsy attitude toward all things church. Next she was slacking off on attending church on time, always coming in with the kids right after the sacrament was done (I have meetings b4 church so Im in the sacrament hall early saving a row for our family). I told her that its is my job to raise them the same way me (and her) was raised and get them to the age of 18 when they can start to make their own decisions, if she is not going to bring them to church on time im going to have our neighbor member pick them up to bring them on time, that worked too and so she has been on time lately, i think the embarasement of someone else taking over her motherly responsibilities is what motivated her in that situation.

 

Ten years ago I had an older relative who cheated on his wife when their kids were around the age of 8yrs old. Instead of reconciling, the wife divorced and found another man that was temple worthy. Today those kids are 18 and 19 and they are both serving missions. What I learned from watching this family is that the wife made a decision to not deal with anytype of crap and she wanted nothing less then an ideal mormon household for her kids. The kids are way, way humble and the most ideal mormon kids, they still love their Dad and have a great relationship with him. On the other hand I have observed plenty of part member families through out the years and I notice more often the kids are more easily influenced to go astray at an early age. 

Or then there is the families who stay active and do all they can and somehow their kids all become inactive.

 

You can't make those assumptions from the outside in.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share