IB versus AP?

[Guest]

Does anybody here have any opinion on IB versus AP programs in high school?  Which did you decide on and why?

 

I've always had my sights set on the IB program because that's what I'm familiar with (we have IBs in the Philippines).  My kid has no preference.  He just wants something that gives him the most challenge (he's just that type of kid - very competitive!).

 

Well, the time has finally come - he qualified for IB... which is great... but then that also means he qualified for AP... and now we're torn...

 

This is how I see it in the US:

IB is for students with the goal of getting admitted to the best of the best colleges.

 

AP is for students  with the goal of getting college credits at the most number of colleges.

 

From this standpoint, IB is more to where I want to be because I'm more interested in him getting into a quality uni anywhere in the world than finishing college in 2 years.  My son doesn't care one way or the other (hah!  He's 13... he just knows he would rather work in SpaceX than Google).

 

But then... IB is a program - that is, you either get IB Diploma or no IB Diploma if you don't pass.  Whereas, AP is more flexible - you can take any number of AP classes to adjust your workload to what you can pass.

 

Thoughts?

 

[PolarVortex]

I know nothing about IB or AP, but I worked for many years in Silicon Valley, scanned thousands of resumes, and helped interview hundreds of high-tech job candidates.  

 

Having a degree from a top-notch school doesn't guarantee you a good job, but I think it does guarantee that your resume will be seen and studied by more hiring managers.  At least that's my experience.  In fact, I learned that most applicants from good schools would put their education credentials at the top of the resume, and many from less excellent schools would put them at the bottom of the last page.  If I got a resume that didn't mention degree and school at the top of the first page, I'd toss it into the "look at later" pile.

 

However, this effect erodes with time, and ten years of hot experience at the right company can totally overcome weak education credentials.  So your son can't rest on his laurels after getting his degree, sadly.

 

Nevertheless, If I were you, I'd focus on getting your son into the best university possible.  It's a solid investment.

[Just_A_Guy]

*Shrug*  I took enough AP classes--and picked a cushy enough university major (history)--that between my AP credits and my language credits (which I got by fluency testing after serving a foreign-speaking mission), I was in and out of BYU in three years.  That's a good thing, IF you know exactly what you want to do after graduation and IF your major's hours requirement and prerequisite sequences for required courses will actually let you get through in fewer than four years.  Otherwise, that extra year and all those AP credits sort of end up being wasted. 

 

On the other hand--today's the first day I'm ever hearing about something called an "IB program".

Edited October 23, 2014 by Just_A_Guy

[carlimac]

IB wasn't/isn't available in the high schools my kids have gone to. 

 

I read up on IB when we were contemplating a move to South Carolina and I really liked the idea until I read a review by a mom who said it was extremely liberal and something else I didn't like. Can't remember what right now. It may have been that pass or fail issue.  

 

Anyway, my sons have done really well academically. Both had a large number of credits from AP tests ( but not all of them could be used for some reason.) Both got into BYU- one with a full ride, the other half tuition. But with another scholarship, it was full.  The older one has done internships with a well known company two summers in a row and now has a lucrative job offer with them after he graduates in the spring- with only an undergraduate degree. He also interviewed with another very well known company but they wanted to postpone an offer for 6 months. So he took the first one.   He also had an internship and paid job last year with a well known local company.

 

So this shameless mom-brag makes the point that it may actually have more to do with talent and ability to get good internships than either IB or AP.

 

Not to leave my second boy out of the limelight, he also was able to swing a great internship with a very well known hospital in the midwest. He's already been offered another next summer. BUT he's chosen a career path that will take much, much...MUCH longer than his brother's. We're talking a decade or so till he's actually making money And he'll have graduate loans galore to pay off.  Ah well. Whatever turns your crank. 

 

I have three daughters now that all have had the same ACT score plus AP credits. The first one got married and has 3 kids. Graduated but has been a stay at home mom since her first was born the day she was supposed to walk in cap and gown. The second is currently tanking school because she is so stressed about whether to marry her boyfriend or go on her mission which she has postponed till Jan.  And the third is in the process of applying to college.  Such is the story without IB.

 

There are so many extraneous factors involved in academic and career success. 

[prisonchaplain]

IB is a comprehensive program that most universities recognize.  The child won't get college credits, but they may get favorable consideration for admissions and scholarships.  It basically ensures that the candidate's high school experience was a college-preparatory, "honors" set of courses.  AP courses are usually ala carte.  That is, the individual course is "AP."  At the end, a test is taken.  If the student scores 3 or above, s/he can earn college credit or recognition, depending on whether the college/university accepts AP.  Again, even those that do not will recognize that the class was advance/honors/college preparatory.

 

One factor is if the child has other interests.  If he plans to be active in music, band, sports, debate, student government, etc., then AP may give more flexibility.  The IB course work is total, and the homework level is pretty demanding.  AP may allow a child who is over-booked to scale back on the number of difficult courses for a semester or so. 

[Guest]

I'm getting cross-eyed researching all this stuff.  THANKS VERY MUCH Y'ALL FOR THE INPUT!   Okay, in addition to your great input from above:

 

There was a seminar on the IB program at one of the high schools here.  We happen to have 3 public high schools accessible to us in the top 100 high schools in the nation.  2 of them have an IB program.  The reason we're targetting these 3 high schools is because - it's public school (saves us lots of money) with very minimum public school problems.

 

Okay some info I got from yesterday:

*  The IB program has 3 main foci - Theory of Knowledge (how we know what we know), Research Paper (may be published if one so desires), Community Service (local or international - the eagle scout project fulfills this requirement).

*  It has 6 core subjects - Math, Science, Humanities, Arts, Language Arts, Language Acquisition - all internationally accredited in 144 countries.  There are some common classes between IB and AP.  AP curriculum is established by the county school board.  IB curriculum is established by the IB organization (it's kinda like the UN where countries send representatives to the IBO).

*  To receive the IB Diploma, one has to pass 6 tests, 1 in each subject area.  In addition, at least 3 of those tests must be taken at the high level, the rest can be at the standard level.  Basically, if you're more inclined towards engineering, you may choose to pursue math at the high level - the test of which includes calculus.

*  The IB Diploma is fully accredited by the school board so you don't need to take any other class outside of the IB program to receive the American high school diploma.  IB Diploma is separate from the standard high school diploma.

*  The state/community colleges/universities in our state recognize the IB courses from the 2 schools and will credit up to 30 hours towards an Associates degree depending on the student's final grade and the American high school diploma - regardless of whether the student took the IB tests.  Basically, you get most of the math, science, and language credits out of the way.

*  The state recognizes the IB Diploma from the 2 high schools as an academic achievement and automatically qualifies the student for the State Lotto scholarship - currently set at $103 per credit-hour per semenster for 4 years undergrad college degree.  The community college tuition is $103, University of Florida tuition is $210.

*  92% of the IB graduates in both schools graduate from college within 5 years.

*  90% of the IB graduates in both schools that apply to University of Florida or Florida State University are granted admission.

 

The seminar yesterday was student-led.  It was quite impressive - the American flag was marched by color guard from the IB ROTC students, the anthem was sung by an IB arts student, the stage was set by the IB film and theater students, etc.  There was a presentation from a representative from the School Board as well as the school's IB director.  Each core subject was presented by an IB graduate from the school who came back to teach that core subject in the IB program.

 

One very interesting question from a parent yesterday after the presentation:  "So far, I have not seen how all the effort and sacrifice you put into a rigorous high school track, pays off.".  He specifically addressed the IB grads who ended up teaching in the public school they graduated from which, as we all know, don't get paid much.

 

The teacher responded that he gets that question all the time - and the other teachers chimed in that they get it all the time too - and he deferred to the students that are currently in the program and asked them the question.  He asked them if any of the statistics that was presented - about the college credits, the scholarship, admission to The Swamp - is the reason that they chose to go through the rigorous IB track.  The 16 students were unanimous in answering (some laughingly), and said No.  They chose the IB program because they like what they are leaning in the IB program.  And one said - here's my choices, play video games for 10 hours a week, or play video games for only 3 hours and spend the other 7 working on a reasearch paper... without the IB program, I'll be playing video games.  With the IB program, I'm more interested in my research paper than the video games and it makes me feel good about myself.

 

So, the teacher concluded:  The pay off is the experience of an IB high school education.  If the student doesn't want that experience, he shouldn't be in the IB program.

 

That made me really think... because, as it is, I'm not sure if my son just wants the IB program because I want the IB program...

Edited October 24, 2014 by anatess

[Crypto]

I've done a little bit of both AP and attended a year and half at an IB school abroad. The IB school education was far better than my U.S. highschool. A.P. classes can have just as much rigour.

If you choose I.B. he needs to make sure to score well to be considered by U.S. colleges. The same is true for A.P. though.

[Crypto]

Oh A.P. tests are done internationally, so they aren't arbitrary to local curriculum. (Also my H.S. is in a small largely uneducated town, so that is a bad comparison for me) The not liked liberal aspect that another poster mentioned probably revolves around TOK (since service is already mandatory at many high schools). It is similar to a philosophy class that focuses on knowledge, and could lead to cynicism in some people. Sort of a summary "I think therfore I am but I can't be sure on anything else" It covers logical fallacy, emotions as a guide to knowlege, and other such topics. A.P. is useful for progressing through college quickly. Which might be a personal preference. It can be just as rigorous as an IB school, you are only limited by the avalibilty of the school proctoring the tests you select.

 

(EDIT: Whoops tablet left out the n't)

Edited October 24, 2014 by Crypto

[Guest]

Oh yeah, about the liberal politics of the high school.  We're lucky to still have a predominantly conservative-leaning libertarian school board, so the liberal slant on classes is toned down because conservative parents have an ear in the school board if they file a complaint.

[Wingnut]

I live in an IB district...all of our schools are IB certified.  But the high school also has a strong AP program.  My kids are very young still, so I haven't even thought much about the high school level or options yet, but are the two really mutually exclusive?

[Crypto]

Since AP is all about passing the A.P. Exams, theoretically you can do both. 

[dahlia]

Why not try for a gifted and talented program if you are going to send your kid to public school?  I did AP history years ago in the Stone Age. I went to a selective prep school  and was accepted into the extremely selective Honors Program at Michigan. I placed out of the language requirement with an almost perfect Spanish score, had 2 yrs of Latin, 3 yrs of math, 3 of science, 4 of history, etc. When I got to Michigan, I was head and shoulders above anyone I knew (other math compared to the math honors kids), whether they were in honors or not because of my prep school education.   

 

My son went to a gifted program from 6th or 7th grade through high school. The courses were 1.5 credits, taught by teachers with graduate degrees at what's called a 'demonstration school.' Kids could be kicked out for academic and disciplinary issues, so there were none of the typical public school issues.  I don't recall any AP courses, but we didn't care about reducing his time in school. He also attended Michigan, beginning as a physics major. We are not talking stupid here. Son is now in PhD program on fellowship, after being feted and flown around the country to various programs, all offering a free ride.

 

If you want an overall rigorous program (as opposed to choosing an AP class here and there), go for gifted and talented. His gifted program formed him intellectually, just as my prep school program formed and influences me to this day.

 

Do you want your child to have an education or pass a bunch of exams? If s/he can take it intellectually, then go for G&T, or as a second place, the IB program.  I dislike the idea of taking AP to 'get out' of courses. If the student does it to avoid a boring lower level course and start at a higher level, then that's another thing. 

 

I was an alumni recruiter for Michigan's undergrad liberal arts & science program for years. I also recruited for one of their grad school programs, from which I have a masters.  You can tell the students who are developed intellectually from those who have no idea what they're doing or why. As a PhD, I've also served on admissions committees for masters and doctoral programs. Same thing applies. Think long term; go for the rigor.   /sounding like my step-father...