Ferguson After Action: Do white conservatives need to talk less and listen more?


prisonchaplain
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Part of me believes that yes, I don't understand the distrust of African-Americans towards law enforcement.  Young African-American men get extra scrutiny from police, and that's not fair.  Another part of me says it's not my fault, and I hate being put on the defense because of my race.  I'm ot a "white privilege denier."  I'm just a guy living my life.  It's easier for me, but the answer is not to make it less easy for me.  Rather, we should find the pathway to that place where everyone gets treated right--as unique individuals.

 

In any case, this author says I need to be quieter and listen more:  http://www.patheos.com/blogs/rebeccaflorencemiller/2014/11/ferguson/

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I love the term "tone-deaf". It is saying, in essence, "It DOESN'T MATTER what the actual truth is! FACTS are IRRELEVANT! The only thing that really matters is how people FEEL, and this response doesn't give enough credit to those all-important FEELINGS!"

 

Barf.

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We had a demonstration in downtown Seattle over the holiday weekend.  Children were confused and scared (it was at a high-end mall), and a youth choir performance was canceled.  The mall ended up closing 4-hours early, on Black Friday. 

 

No, money is not the most important thing.  Not at all.  However, I always thought freedom of expression ended at my property marker.  Tsk tsk on my Old Testament thinking.  ;)

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This article is, frankly, lunacy.  A couple of thoughts that came to mind as I read it:

 

--How dare the prosecutor in a manslaughter case talk about nonsense like "evidence" and "witneses" and thinking his job was to evaluate the facts of a single specific homicide!  Dosn't he know there's a race war on here?

--"[M]any from the white, Christian community stood to the side and, loving the sound of their own voices, gave a tone-deaf running commentary on what had caused the bleeding and how much blood was being lost"?  Stupid conservatives, thinking that talking about a problem indicates that the talkers want the problem solved!  They should have understood--as one wise woman said--that (to coin a phrase)

--"Lesley McSpadden and Michael Brown, Sr., the parents of Michael Brown and the most wronged parties here, . . ."  :rofl:

 

Now, let's have a little honesty:

 

The Michael Brown apologists don't want understanding.  That, and a buck fifty, will get me a ham sandwich.  (Which would have been indicted more easily than Darren Wilson was.)  They want money.  Taxpayer funds are ideal; but if those can't be had, then they want police to turn a blind eye as they inflict a reign of terror over those who got off their keesters and worked for a living.  And the destruction of minority-owned businesses last week in Ferguson just teaches us that it really doesn't matter if the "haves" in this scenario are the traditionally "privileged" (i.e. "white") groups or not--say what you will about Benjamin Crump and his merry band of morons; but at least they're equal-opportunity kleptocrats.

Edited by Just_A_Guy
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Guest LiterateParakeet

PC, I think you should listen to that still small voice in your head telling you yes. 

 

I liked the article very much and agree with it.  I particularly liked the part he quoted from Lecrae.

 

I've been trying to just ignore the Ferguson threads here on the board because I know my opinion is not popular and confrontation wearies me.  Sometimes if I am not emotionally attached to the issue, I do enjoy debate.  But I am emotionally attached to this one.  

 

And no, I don't want to debate it with five people (or more or less)...thanks in advance for the offers...  I read the responses above...so I am already aware that by agreeing with the article that puts me in the category of foolish lunatic.  I get it.  

 

And yes, I do think that you (general) are NOT listening.  If I'm wrong, then this article is a good starting point...

 

The Best Explanation I've Ever Heard on Why White People and Black People See Cops Differently
http://www.upworthy.com/the-best-explanation-ive-ever-heard-of-why-black-people-and-white-people-see-cops-differently

Edited by LiterateParakeet
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Oh we're listening fine.

 

The day that the black community stop producing a lot more criminals than any other race will be the day the cops will stop harassing them.

 

End of story.

 

So... you really only have 1 issue here:  Figure out how to keep black people from becoming criminals - and no, in today's America, that's not a white problem, that's a black problem.  And no, more cop scrutiny doesn't make criminals.  Crime make criminals.

 

Unfortunately, the leaders who are supposed to address that issue don't want to solve that problem.  They want the problem to exist as their livelihood depend on it.  So, yeah, LittleParakeet, you're singing up the wrong tree.

 

And, as a forgotten minority in this country (when they say minority, they never mean me - they always mean either Black or Hispanic), let me just say this very important thing - the only way you can end racism is to stop referring to people as a color.  So, everytime you say "Black Men are...", "White man is...", or "African-American", you're dividing a nation by race.  I've never heard anybody call my kids, "Asian-American"... they even rarely refer to them as "Asian"...

Edited by anatess
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So yeah, when a group that comprises 13% of the population commits 52% of the murders, we have a problem that needs to be looked at. Perhaps it's poverty, perhaps it's subculture, likely it's a mixture with some odd ingredients thrown in to boot, but I doubt the problem is mass racism.

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Guest LiterateParakeet

 

The day that the black community stop producing a lot more criminals than any other race will be the day the cops will stop harassing them.

 

End of story.

 

If only that were true, we could have our "happily ever after" right now.  Here's the facts:

 

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/crime-in-the-u.s.-2012/tables/43tabledatadecoverviewpdf

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If only that were true, we could have our "happily ever after" right now.  Here's the facts:

 

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/crime-in-the-u.s.-2012/tables/43tabledatadecoverviewpdf

 

Your facts just confirmed the claim...

When you read that, keep in mind the group we have in mind make up about 13% of the population, so if our focus group was committing crimes at the same rate as other groups, they should come out to around 13%.

Edited by jerome1232
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It is saying, in essence, "It DOESN'T MATTER what the actual truth is! FACTS are IRRELEVANT! The only thing that really matters is how people FEEL, and this response doesn't give enough credit to those all-important FEELINGS!"

 

Why does this sound familiar to the many gospel issues as well?

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Here's what frustrates.  Many African-Americans perceive, often based on one or more personal incidents, and very often faced upon the experiences of those they know personally, that majority culture does not treat them right.  Young African-American men are looked at with suspicion, even though they might be Ivy Leaguers.  So, I read of their anger, but I see terms like "Whites" "White society," etc., and I feel condemned--because of my race.  My feelings my compounded in the LDS community because a little over a hundred years ago your ancestors were being chased out of places, on threat of serious violence.

 

Individually, I try to be a listener--especially to my African-American acquaintances.  Many churches are reaching out (or in) to their African-American brothers/sisters, seeking better understanding.  Society-wide, encouraging individual responsiblity, stronger families, and a culture that values education are some approaches that will help.  And, as I said on another thread, if the force has more employed who understand the community they serve, and this can be done without compromising standards or safety, then it is worthwhile.

 

Fight fictional racism with real racism

 

...makes perfect sense  <_<

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I do think there is wisdom in "First seek to understand, then to be understood". 

 

As I've stated in other threads there is an industry that thrives off of division. That same industry thrives off ignorance and dependency. So those in poor black communities certainly have allot to overcome when their government, entertainment and schools are keeping them in their place by fueling the rage.  On top of that we have a culture of the "world owe's me", "I'm not accountable" for my decisions and "it's wrong to judge".

 

We are along way off from a colorblind society when it's easier for people to use skin color as an excuse rather then working on developing their own character.

 

I always wonder why I don't hear that quoted and highlighted anymore on Martin Luther King Day. I think it's because the dream now days is a society where no one is judged no matter what they do and folks depend on skin color differences to avoid responsibility.

 

So we ought to keep that in mind and I think a little sensitivity is worth it. I think they are just as exploited today as they were 200 year ago. 

Edited by Windseeker
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If only that were true, we could have our "happily ever after" right now.  Here's the facts:

 

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/crime-in-the-u.s.-2012/tables/43tabledatadecoverviewpdf

 

 

Your facts just confirmed the claim...

When you read that, keep in mind the group we have in mind make up about 13% of the population, so if our focus group was committing crimes at the same rate as other groups, they should come out to around 13%.

 

 

LiterateParakeet... look at that stat that you just linked to... you just confirmed everything I said.

 

White American

percentage of population: 77%

percentage of VIOLENT crimes:  59%

percentage of violent crimes committed by people under under age 18:  46.6%

 

Asians or Pacific Islanders

percentate of population:  5% 

percentage of VIOLENT crimes: 1.4%

percentage of these violent crimes committed by people under age 18:  1.0%

 

American Indian or Alaskan Native

percentage of population:  1%

percentage of VIOLENT crimes:  1.3%

percentage of these violent crimes committed by people under age 18:  0.8%

 

Black American

percentage of population:  14%

percentage of VIOLENT crimes:  38.5%

percentage of these violent crimes committed by people under age 18:  51.5%

 

 

What does that tell you?  Well, at least one thing - it gives a possible reason on why cops don't harass Asian teenagers even with all the Asian gang movies in Hollywood.  And another thing - they didn't bother to report Hispanics (hmmm...).

 

Now, what would be even more telling is if you break this down into communities.  There are Asian communities in the US (especially in California) in the same manner as there are Black communities in the US.  Crime, especially those committed by people under 18, as a percentage of population in Asian communities are lower than Black communities or even White communities.  There's something about Asians that puts fear in kids to engage in crime that is not present in Black communities.  And no, it's not "slavery" because Asians were just as much slaves of the railroad and Jim Crow laws applied to Chinese (and anybody who look Chinese) - at least in California, if not elsewhere (there's even the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882).  Of course, since immigration was pretty much closed to Asians for the first half of the 20th century it was very rare to find an Asian in the Jim Crow South for Jim Crow laws to apply to...

 

Anyway... you can keep blaming other people for your problems and demand they fix them or you can fix your own problems.

 

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In LP's defense, I believe she was responding to an assertion that black culture creates more criminals than any other. That is true as a proportion of the population, but that qualification was never expressly stated.

 

 

The assertion is not blacks as a proportion of the general population (although that case is very telling).  The assertion is black communities produce a lot more criminals than any other race. 

 

And yes, technically, there's no such thing as "white communities" as they are the majority population.  There are Italian communities, German communities, Polish communities, Bosnian communities, etc... most of which are white... all of which are not broken down in the FBI report that LP posted.

 

Italians get a bad rap due to the Mafia - so Italian communities in Chicago and New Jersey get a cop's bullseye too.  But Italian communities outside of the old Mafia area are not as riddled with crime.

 

No, I don't have stats to go with that.  Yes, it's all my personal perspective from my social awareness of these kinds of things being a non-resident immigrant in the country.

Edited by anatess
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