Fell way behind with tithing this year. Now what?

[Lilac]

I'm a convert from another Christian faith that also tithes so there is no issue with tithing. We simply fell behind this year.  Mostly due to a forclosure and bankruptcy.  Trying to get the bills paid and food etc. has been a huge challenge. We have a large family.  I could add more info of our siuation but I don't want to disclose all this on a forum.  But trust me when I say, we have had a very rough year.  We have cut everything. Between us we work three jobs. 

 

We tithed for a few months in 2014 and got slammed over and over with legal bills etc. We paid the legal bills which are all ASAP bills when you are sitting in a lawyer's office who is showing up to court for you next week kinda bills.   Then we had salaries garnished.  We figured we could catch up eventually.

 

It's December 22 and there is no way we can catch up by the end of the year. We just paid our electric bill before it got shut off.   

 

I got an email for tithing settlements.  I never got an email for that any other years; we have a new bishop.

 

What happens now?  

 

Can I make up the tithe in 2015? I have a few pay checks due to me.  

 

Do I have to go to this meeting?  What happens in there? Will he take away my temple recommend?

 

 

 

I know someone will ask this so I will answer it.

Yes, bishop knows of financial problems. Not sure of how much detail but house mess is open knowledge.  

No, we haven't gotten any help because my spouse is humiliated by this mess.  I am the college degree working family next door to you in the normal suburban home with a regular life, kids and a beat up old van. And in consistant financial crisis.  I tred very lightly on this topic with my spouse because it is HIGHLY sensitive topic.  

 

Thanks for the help.  

 

 

 

 

 

[estradling75]

You don't know what happens in tithing settlement?

[Vort]

Tithing settlement is a time for you to declare your status as a tithe-payer. It's not something to be afraid of.

 

Will the bishop take away your temple recommend? I suppose it's possible, but that is completely up to the bishop. If you are bankrupt, the bishop may decide you had no net income for the year and thus have no tithing expectation. But of course, I have no idea what your bishop will decide.

 

Don't sweat the meeting. Go and talk to the bishop. Tell him what's going on. Let him worry about doing his job. You just do your best.

[skalenfehl]

The Lord knows your heart and your circumstances. Abraham paid tithes of all the Lord gave him more than that, which he had need. Tithing settlement is simply where you let your bishop know whether or not you are a full tithe payer. Nothing will happen to you if you don't go; however, I would ask for the bishop's advice and help, if I were you. Tithing is ten percent of your annual increase/income. If you made no increase/income, then your tithe is zero and you are a full tithe payer. 

 

I had to close my business down a few years ago and I lost my home to foreclosure. Yes, it is a humbling and humiliating, but it can be a powerful learning experience. If you are losing everything, it sounds to me like you aren't earning any kind of increase. I did have a little help from my bishop at the time, but I knew there came a point where the church could not take over my payments. But this doesn't mean that your bishop can't help with food, etc. My prayers are with you.

[sxfritz]

Don't be concerned about tithing settlement. You should go, and declare yourself as partial and not full, but there is nothing punitive.  I've not known a bishop to take back a recommend for anything except sexual sin or perhaps a criminal conviction, but certainly not for tithing.

 

Now, if your recommend is coming due, you will want to be honest at the recommend interview. The bishop and stake president have discretion to not issue a recommend, but they also have the discretion to issue one.

 

Start on a full-tithe as soon as you can. The clock starts as soon as you are able. You are not now in debt to the Lord. I'm not trying to Pontificate here. I'm not your bishop, but believe me, he isn't keeping that type of score. 

[Lilac]

You don't know what happens in tithing settlement?

 I can figure it out but no, not really.  My olther bishop never sent e-mails and I just paid my tithe.  I didn't know I had to have a meeting about it.  I've been LDS for about 6 years now and never heard about it or if I did, I wasn't paying attention. 

 

We have an income...we both work.

 

A foreclosure is very expensive unless you just let the sheriff auction the house and walk away completely.  We've been paying our mortgage for 16 years, never missed a payment and then things started going wrong. Long story...but the legal bills are a lot.  I actually just paid my last legal bill today.  (i hope).  It appears my bankruptcy has finally been approved today also (another expensive situation). I just opened the mail actually!  

 

 

This sounds odd but I can't handle the temple recommend being taken away.  We have been through so much in the past few years...I can't have another person stamp "loser" on me just one more time.  I know we're not losers but it certainly feels that way. 

 

I probably won't go to the settlement meeting. My spouse is NEVER going to sit and discuss all of this...it's too painful.  I will try to catch up from here and just move forward. Sitting and rehashing all this is rough.  

 

Thank you for your kind notes.  

[Jane_Doe]

Lilic-- *hug*.  It'll be alright, no need to worry.

 

You're not in trouble for getting an email about tithing settlement.  Tithing settlement is a thing every bishop does very year.  It's at the end of the year (November-December), when you meet with your bishop and he just asks you if everything up to date with tithing.  You say "yes" or "no", and he says "ok".  Entire thing takes 2 minutes (ok, maybe 10 with small talk and him asking how you're doing).  If you miss it life, the earth continues to spin.   

 

What tithing settlement is not: a police court.  The bishop is there to help you, not condemn you.  If you've had a hard year, I'd suggest talking to him and let him help you.  And no, he's not going to take your recommend away for being bankrupt.  

Edited December 23, 2014 by Jane_Doe

[yjacket]

Lilac,

I'm sorry this is occurring to you . . . . sometimes life just gives it to you no matter what you do.

 

From my experience tithing settlement is more of an accounting mechanisms so the church knows the percentage of full,partial or no tithe payers.  It's entirely self-reporting, i.e. you declare what you are. I've had Bishops call me up over the phone, it really is simple and quick.  And if you say no, the Bishop isn't going to pull your recommend.

 

Now, if you are up for your two year temple recommend interview, it might be a little different and I think the Bishop would want to help you.

 

As a side-note, your situation is one reason why I personally think 30 year mortgages are a bad idea.  One can be paying 100% fine for 29 years, hit a rough patch and then boom lose everything. An extremely painful process . . . .that nobody should go through. In today's world, the probability that an individual will have 30+ years without a rough patch is pretty small.

Edited December 23, 2014 by yjacket

[sxfritz]

 I can figure it out but no, not really.  My olther bishop never sent e-mails and I just paid my tithe.  I didn't know I had to have a meeting about it.  I've been LDS for about 6 years now and never heard about it or if I did, I wasn't paying attention. 

 

...

I probably won't go to the settlement meeting. My spouse is NEVER going to sit and discuss all of this...it's too painful.  I will try to catch up from here and just move forward. Sitting and rehashing all this is rough.  

 

The email is just because you now have a more effective bishop. Everyone is "asked" to attend every year, but it is voluntary. For the ward's annual report, the bishop "guesses" the status of members when they don't declare. I'd say about 60% of the active members attend. I've been clerk twice, so I've seen the process fairly close. 

 

Wish you well. Sounds like you are on the right track.

[Lilac]

Thank you again for the help. 

[estradling75]

 I can figure it out but no, not really.  My olther bishop never sent e-mails and I just paid my tithe.  I didn't know I had to have a meeting about it.  I've been LDS for about 6 years now and never heard about it or if I did, I wasn't paying attention. 

 

We have an income...we both work.

 

A foreclosure is very expensive unless you just let the sheriff auction the house and walk away completely.  We've been paying our mortgage for 16 years, never missed a payment and then things started going wrong. Long story...but the legal bills are a lot.  I actually just paid my last legal bill today.  (i hope).  It appears my bankruptcy has finally been approved today also (another expensive situation). I just opened the mail actually!  

 

 

This sounds odd but I can't handle the temple recommend being taken away.  We have been through so much in the past few years...I can't have another person stamp "loser" on me just one more time.  I know we're not losers but it certainly feels that way. 

 

I probably won't go to the settlement meeting. My spouse is NEVER going to sit and discuss all of this...it's too painful.  I will try to catch up from here and just move forward. Sitting and rehashing all this is rough.  

 

Thank you for your kind notes.  

 

 

Six years huh....   Seems weird that you hadn't encountered it for six years but possible.  Other have detailed it is about declaring before the bishop your Tithing status.  Generally the clerks will also print out your membership record and donation record so you can check both for errors.  The clerks try to get everything right but errors happen (When I was younger once my sister go listed as a donor for my donation) This allows you to look things over and bring to there attention any mistakes.  In addition to all that most bishops I have met like the chance to talk to the various member of the ward and get to know them better. 

 

In my experience Tithing Settlement gets repeatedly announced in sacrament with sign up sheets on the clerk's door or somewhere near the Bishop's and clerk's offices. Email would be a new thing in my experience, but that just means your Bishopric is ok with that method of inviting people to attend.

 

As to your temple recommend that is also in the Bishop's hands.  As for paying what you owe....  Its been my experience that Bishop's are not interested is getting you to pay "back tithing" but in getting you reset and paying from now going forward.

[mdfxdb]

You are a full tithe payer as of the day you start paying a full tithe.  There is no such thing as "falling behind".  Write your  next tithing check on 10% of your increase.  From that moment you are a full tithe payer on your most recent paycheck/monies received.  Keep doing it.  

 

Being a full tithe payer is between you and the Lord.  The bishop will record your statement that you are or are not a full tithe payer.  

[Guest]

Hmm... I've been to tons of Tithing Settlements with different bishops... I don't ever remember being asked about my Tithing Status in that meeting.  I'm asked my tithing status at Temple Recommend interviews - which, sometimes gets combined with Tithing Settlements... am I getting old???

 

Basically, this is tithing settlement... I bring my records (I have my yellow slips and I also have the stuff in my accounting program that I print out to show how much I've given the Church - tithing, fast offerings, etc.).  I walk into the meeting, the bishop hands me a piece of paper showing how much they've received as far as tithings, fast offerings, etc... I match it with my records.  They usually match... and I tell the bishop everything is good.  Sometimes it doesn't match - there was one time that my fast offerings did not match the bishop's records.  We figured that the deacon collecting the fast offerings may have misplaced it - I don't know.  In this case, we discuss the discrepancy with the bishop and decide what to do - I told the bishop it's okay.  I just took it out of my accounting program so my records matches with the bishop's.

 

Then, we usually shoot the breeze a bit - the bishop asks us how we're doing, which usually ends up with us just talking about the same things we talk about all the time - our jobs, our kids, our callings - because I haven't had a bishop that I'm not friends with outside of Church... so the bishop knows my family really well.

 

And so, I go home, with the Bishop's print-out of my contributions to the church which I use in the deductions part when I file my Federal Taxes.

 

That's what happens in my Tithing Settlement...

[mdfxdb]

The bishop must note a tithing status for members who attend tithing settlement, and for members who do not attend.  

 

This is put into a report in MLS which is submitted to Salt Lake, and then printed and signed by the Bishop for submission to the Stake.  This report is to be submitted no later than Jan 15.  On this report is a list of every member, how much they paid in tithing, and whether or not they are a full/partial/non tithe payer.  

[priesthoodpower]

I dont keep my yellow receipts when paying tithing through out the year, I just wait till the end of the year "tithing settlement" meeting with my bishop and collect the paper that he prints out that says how much i paid. I then take that paper and give it to my tax preparer to declare as "charitable contributions" on my Federal taxes.

In most all cases the bishop puts a sign-up sheet on his door in mid december inviting all members to schedule a time to meet with him, last year was the first year in my life where I did not pay a full tithe and so I avoided signing up. The clerk called me the last week of december and invited me to schedule the meeting. I met with bishop and told him that i have been going through some rough times financially. He is not there to be judgemental but rather as a comforter. The Lord commands you pay a tithe not the bishop, the bishop is there to assist you in fulfilling the Lords commandments. Bishop told me that I dont have to back pay for the times that I missed paying the tithing. He said "I encourage you to start now and get yourself back on track to paying a full-tithe".

I totally love the fact that our leaders dont encourage us to pay tithes because the church needs money, they encourage us to pay tithes because they know the Lord blesses those that follow the commandments. I remember in some of these meetings having bishops that dont even look at the amount that I paid, they just simply hand me the paper to look and confirm the total amount paid and ask "are you a full-tithe payer?"

[Str8Shooter]

As it says in the book of Malachi, if you pay your tithing so many blessings will be poured out upon you that you will not have room to receive them. I testify that this is true.

Tithing is not another bill. I will explain why. There are some sins we commit that we cannot make complete restitution for. The atonement of Jesus Christ takes care of what we can't. Tithing is a commandment and if we don't pay it, it is a sin. If we repent, we are usually not liable for the unpaid tithing because the atonement takes care of it.

Confess and forsake the sin, and move on. Don't worry about the unpaid tithing. Recommit to pay your tithing from now on, no matter what. Pay it first, no matter what. If you are having serious financial difficulties, exercise faith, talk to your bishop, and give heed to his counsel. This is my counsel to you. Always, always pay tithing.

[askandanswer]

I hope you've looked at the pinned post that appears immediately above your post entitled ldsnet references  to tithing at http://lds.net/forums/topic/19560-ldsnet-references-to-tithing/   . I suspect that you may well find something helpful in there.

[UtahMormon1960]

A Full tithing.   10% ?   Is this amount specific to Charitable Donations (Tithing) to the LDS Church or Charitable Donations in General?

 

Am I not paying a full tithing, if I do not give it all to the LDS Church?    As a missionary so many answers to these types of questions was...  " If you feel good about it Elder " 

 

Is it up to me?

[sxfritz]

A Full tithing.   10% ?   Is this amount specific to Charitable Donations (Tithing) to the LDS Church or Charitable Donations in General?

 

Am I not paying a full tithing, if I do not give it all to the LDS Church?    As a missionary so many answers to these types of questions was...  " If you feel good about it Elder " 

 

Is it up to me?

When we talk about Tithing Settlement and temple recommend interviews, you are expected to pay 10% to the Church. Anything you do above that (inside or outside the Church) is based on blessings you have received to allow you to do so (from "the windows of Heaven"). 

[Vort]

A Full tithing.   10% ?   Is this amount specific to Charitable Donations (Tithing) to the LDS Church or Charitable Donations in General?

 

Am I not paying a full tithing, if I do not give it all to the LDS Church?    As a missionary so many answers to these types of questions was...  " If you feel good about it Elder " 

 

Is it up to me?

No, it is not up to you. Tithing is paid to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. It is marked specifically as "tithing", not "fast offering" or something else. Paying 10% of your income to the Red Cross is not paying tithing.

[Lilac]

Update:

Sorry it took so long to give an update.  I had some trouble signing into the forums. 

 

We landed up going to the meeting.  The e-mails kept coming and then someone signed us up so we decided that we should just attend and be done since this was clearly a big deal. 

 

No problems.

I told the bishop pretty much what I posted here. Foreclosure, bankruptcy and wage garnishment. 

 

He said while spiritually, we must tithe, he can certainly understand as a human what happened.  Just begin tithing again and move forward. 

 

We were done in about three minutes. 

 

Thanks for the help. 

[priesthoodpower]

didnt want to create a whole new thread but wanted to ask a similar question about tithing.

I have some depths that i need to pay off and therefore I did not pay tithing at all in 2014. I plan to continue this for 2015 and hopefully go back to being a full tithe payer in 2016.

I realize that I am not temple worthy because I do not pay a FULL TITHE, I am willing to try and pay 5% instead of 10% in 2015, will this qualify me to be temple worthy? If not then I dont see a point in paying 5%.

It seems as though its all or nothing. You are either a full 10% tithe payer or you are not. Does the Lord bless someone for only paying 5% as opposed to someone that pays 0%

any thoughts?

Edited January 8, 2015 by priesthoodpower

[Vort]

You have two questions: (1) Does 5% qualify one for a temple recommend? (2) Does God like a 5% contribution better than 0%?

 

**********

DISCLAIMER: I have no special authority to answer.

**********

 

The answers to both questions seem self-evident. "Tithing" means a tenth. It doesn't mean a twentieth. I cannot see any realistic situation where your decision to cut tithing in half would demonstrate the faith or commitment necessary to procure a temple recommend.

 

Does God like at least some sacrifice from you better than none at all? I would imagine he must. I'm sure God would prefer you not smoke cigarettes, but if you're smoking a pack a day, cutting down to half a pack must be a good thing, relatively speaking. Similarly, if you are not doing a good turn daily, but you are doing a good turn every other day, well, at least you're doing a good turn some time. But again, that's not sufficient to qualify for a temple recommend.

[Guest]

God doesn't need your money. He needs (or at least wants) your faith.

[The Folk Prophet]

Just begin tithing again and move forward. 

 

This would have been my advice if it was my place to give such advice (which it is not, but since the bishop did (who's place it is)). Don't pay back old tithing. That's not the point. But starting now, never fall behind again. Ever. And, voila! You're a full tithe payer starting now.

Edited January 8, 2015 by The Folk Prophet