My husband is having a crisis of faith


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Hi everyone, 

 

I have been married for almost 5 years and have no children.  I was raised in the gospel and my husband is a return missionary who was also raised in the church.  My husband recently came out to me with the his belief that there is no God.  He has struggled for the last few years, with the catalyst (I believe) being his younger brother coming out as gay and leaving the church.  My husband also suffers from mild depression and I think that this trial has made it harder for him to feel the spirit.  

While he hasn't stopped wearing his garments yet, I know that is the next step for him.  I still have a testimony and am feeling heart broken.  I can see all the things that I wanted for our lives getting flushed down the toilet.  I am afraid to have kids with him and kids are something that I desperately want.  He has changed so much since we got married I am terrified of how much more he could change in the next 5 years.   I just feel so discouraged and sad.  It seems that when it rains it pours because I have recently seen many LDS couples around me filing for divorce.  We are looking into meeting with an LDS counselor.  I would greatly appreciate any advice, support, and prayers during this time because I am feeling so lost and scared.  

 

Sincerely, 

J

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Guest LiterateParakeet

J, I have to run, but I just wanted to say, I'm sorry.  I'm sure this is a very difficult time for both of you.  There is surely a sense of grief and loss for each of you.  Keep loving him and keep praying.  

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Hi everyone, 

 

I have been married for almost 5 years and have no children.  I was raised in the gospel and my husband is a return missionary who was also raised in the church.  My husband recently came out to me with the his belief that there is no God.  He has struggled for the last few years, with the catalyst (I believe) being his younger brother coming out as gay and leaving the church.  My husband also suffers from mild depression and I think that this trial has made it harder for him to feel the spirit.  

While he hasn't stopped wearing his garments yet, I know that is the next step for him.  I still have a testimony and am feeling heart broken.  I can see all the things that I wanted for our lives getting flushed down the toilet.  I am afraid to have kids with him and kids are something that I desperately want.  He has changed so much since we got married I am terrified of how much more he could change in the next 5 years.   I just feel so discouraged and sad.  It seems that when it rains it pours because I have recently seen many LDS couples around me filing for divorce.  We are looking into meeting with an LDS counselor.  I would greatly appreciate any advice, support, and prayers during this time because I am feeling so lost and scared.  

 

Sincerely, 

J

 

Feeling lost and scared is not a good place to be.  But, it is a normal reaction to these events, I'd even go so far as to say it's to be expected.

 

My only advice here is to bring you back to the promises of the marital covenant.  The promise is for you to bring your spouse with you on your journey closer to Christ.  This means that your fixed point is Christ.  That's where your marriage needs to be centered on.  You are the other point - you need to continue moving closer to Christ.  And the third point is your husband.  You can't force your husband kicking and screaming to move closer to Christ.  That is his own spiritual journey.  What you can do, though, is to continue to keep yourself single to the glory of God so that he might follow.  Also, you can help him and support him to overcome these mortal challenges that prevents him from continuing on with his journey to Christ.

 

Therefore, feeling lost and scared can be alleviated if you maintain Christ as your fixed point - because, you know, with your testimony - that that is the path to joy.  It is when you lose yourself in the service of another (in this case, your husband) that you will find yourself.

 

Hope this helps.

Edited by anatess
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Many people's doubts about God are rooted in their sudden beliefs that God isn't doing the things that they think God should be doing, such as preventing the death of a loved one.  It helped me to visualize God as beams of light in a fallen world, not as an incompetent puppeteer who can be blamed for every bad thing.

 

First step is to get real about the depression thing.  That's your top priority.  And be open to the possibility that some forms of depression can be treated by simple things, such as diet, exercises, clear goals in life, and a loving support structure.  

 

I don't know if your husband likes to read, but I would highly recommend John C. Lennox's book God's Undertaker: Has Science Buried God?  The author is a very highly respected Irish intellectual with several doctorates, and he makes a very strong case for God.

 

Finally, these types of faith crises are sometimes healthy because they can topple your house of cards and force you to rebuild something that is even higher and stronger.  I'm not saying you should rejoice in your husband's faith crisis, but neither should you assume that it must end in disaster.  As I've mentioned on other threads here, I fell away badly from the Church and came close to having my name removed from Church records.  But with enough time and thought I felt the pull of Heavenly Father and I am drifting back.  Perhaps your husband will follow a similar path.  I hope so.

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Don't panic.

 

Do the counseling.

 

Love and serve him, but don't tolerate any attempt on his part to come between you and your relationship with God.

 

Don't make babies until you get things figured out.

 

Do all the things that keep up your testimony--prayer, scripture study, church attendance, etc.

 

Know that lots of people here will be praying for you.

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Guest MormonGator

Don't panic.

 

 

This is the first thing you need to do, even before prayer. Take a deep breath. 

 

Remember that faith is faith-it's not fact. Virtually everyone has at times, doubted their faith or at least questioned it. This isn't the end, and we can never guess what will happen tomorrow. 

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My prayers are with you as you go through this trial.  We all face trials in this life, sometimes it is a loss of faith, sometimes it is a love-one changing, sometimes it is a health crisis, sometimes it is the loss of someone. I have my own trials and I assure you, you wouldn't want my burdens just as much as I wouldn't want yours.

 

As some point in our lives, we must all face the crucible. It is only in and through our trials that we can learn how to come closer to Heavenly Father and Christ. Somehow through the Atonement of Christ, He understands and know exactly what you are going through, when no one else can.  The best advice I can give you is to give your life over to him.  Ask Him, plead with Him, tell Him your desires and wishes and then humbling tell Him, not my will but thine be done.  If you do that, I can promise you that it will all work out . . .how it will work out I don't know and it may not be in the way you think, but it will work out.

 

Finally, kids are blessing and a joy.  No one here knows your situation deeply and personally I think it's rather brash for someone who doesn't know you to tell you to not have kids.  To have kids or not is an intensly personal decision that should remain between you, your husband and God (even if your husband doesn't believe in Him).

 

If you pray about it and feel it's the right time to have kids, then go for it. If not, then don't. Anyone else's suggestion on when to have kids . . .well there is a place for those suggestions.  If I had waited until other people would have suggested I have kids, I wouldn't have had any and they bring such happiness into my life I wouldn't have it any other way.

Edited by yjacket
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It's not brash advice to caution a couple from becoming pregnant when they're going down different roads. Too many couples bring children into the world when they're not on the same page. From what OP has shared, it would seem foolish to get pregnant now.

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#1.  No kids

#2.  Are you sure he's changed, or you are just not happy with who he is right now?

 

What I mean is, did he have depression before you got married?  How was he on church before you got married strong?  Just because he is a RM doesn't mean he was strong.  Did he serve in church, seek opportunities, do all the things that are mentioned above (prayer, scripture reading, temple attendance).  

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Finally, kids are blessing and a joy.  No one here knows your situation deeply and personally I think it's rather brash for someone who doesn't know you to tell you to not have kids.  To have kids or not is an intensly personal decision that should remain between you, your husband and God (even if your husband doesn't believe in Him).
 

I agree that children are always a blessing.  I wouldn't plan on them to save a marriage, but I wouldn't let your husband's faith crisis be a reason to not have children.  Overall, I believe you are getting good advice from the Forum. 

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I agree that children are always a blessing.  I wouldn't plan on them to save a marriage, but I wouldn't let your husband's faith crisis be a reason to not have children.  Overall, I believe you are getting good advice from the Forum. 

With the exception of the above.  You are getting good advice.

 

Do not have children with someone who you do not trust, or with someone you are having marital trouble with.  Your husbands faith crisis is an excellent reason to not have children

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With the exception of the above.  You are getting good advice.

 

Do not have children with someone who you do not trust, or with someone you are having marital trouble with.  Your husbands faith crisis is an excellent reason to not have children

 

The reason why I dislike this advice is that it is basically admitting marriage failure.  Part of being married is (while we LDS don't say it-the essence is still there) the whole "to have and to hold, from this day forward, for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, until death do us part." except for LDS without the death do us part part.

 

Saying things like "do not have children with someone you do not trust" is essentially admitting that the marriage has a strong possibility of break-up.  It is an out.

 

And if there is one thing I have learned being married, it's that you won't fix any problems when one person is thinking of the out.  One has to be 110% committed all the way that unless there is a serious justifiable reason for divorce (abuse, adultery), we are going to stick this thing through no matter what happens.

 

And quite frankly, it is why so many marriages fail . . . the individuals involved don't want to put forth the hard work to make a marriage thrive.  Some marriages are easy to maintain than others, but they all require some of the same basic principles

 

So I think the advice above is pure rubbish.  Sxfritz is dead on about kids.

Edited by yjacket
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Fx ritz and yjacket you really think it the act of a responsible adult to bring children into a dysfunctional household?

That's sad and selfish. Children are not like toys to make us feel good. We have a duty and moral responsibility to raise them in the best possible manner. Anything less is egotistical and irresponsible.

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Fx ritz and yjacket you really think it the act of a responsible adult to bring children into a dysfunctional household?

That's sad and selfish. Children are not like toys to make us feel good. We have a duty and moral responsibility to raise them in the best possible manner. Anything less is egotistical and irresponsible.

Dude whatever . . . 

 

I never said children are like toys and if you've read any of my post you'd realize that.

 

Let me give you a hint . . . all household are dysfunctional to some extent.

 

The problem is that today, everyone wants the "perfect situation".  People are encouraged to wait until, they have more money, until they are out of school, until they have the perfect job, until they have figured out all their marriage issues.  Because we as a society have delayed adulthood, individuals aren't mature enough (or don't want to even get married) until they are in their late 20s.

 

By that time, people end up being in their mid-30s before they figure it all out.  After 35 pregnancy's become much higher risk.  You do realize that the re-population rate in the United States is 1.8 births per woman.  The US is below re-population rate.  As a culture we are literally killing ourselves. The only reason the population in the US is growing is due to immigration. Let that sink in for just a minute.

 

Sure there are some cases where having children is probably not warranted, i.e. abusive cases where the marriage is in doubt. But the Lord's church and Christ has pretty much specified that unless it's Abuse or Adultery, divorce is almost always not justified. The only reason to not bring children into a marriage is if there is a high likelihood that the marriage will be dissolved. Other than that, there is no good reason to be selfish and not have kids.  Yes, by not having kids the married couple is being selfish.

 

I will never claim to know when a couple should have children, that is a decision for them and God.  The only time I'll say when not to have kids is when the marriage is in doubt and the only time the marriage should be in doubt is in cases of abuse or adultery; otherwise the marriage shouldn't be in doubt and their shouldn't be a reason to not bring kids in.

 

You get married to have a family, to fulfill the 1st great commandment, "replenish the earth".  If one does not have that in mind, i.e. to follow God's 1st commandment to "be fruitful and multiply", then that individual and couple is prideful and selfish.

 

God didn't say, "be happy and only when everything is peachy then have kids".  That's part of being married, it's a near unbreakable covenant.

 

We absolutely have the duty and moral responsibility to raise them in the best way possible . . . but best way possible, doesn't mean best circumstances. If people in the past had children the way modern culture looks upon having children, simply put we wouldn't be here-b/c they would have all died off.

Edited by yjacket
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Dude whatever . . . 

 

I never said children are like toys and if you've read any of my post you'd realize that; and I say that you are extremely egotistical and judgmental.

 

Let me give you a hint . . . all household are dysfunctional to some extent.

 

The problem is that today, everyone wants the "perfect situation".  People are encouraged to wait until, they have more money, until they are out of school, until they have the perfect job, until they have figured out all their marriage issues.  Because we as a society have delayed adulthood, individuals aren't mature enough (or don't want to even get married) until they are in their late 20s.

 

By that time, people end up being in their mid-30s before they figure it all out.  After 35 pregnancy's become much higher risk.  You do realize that the re-population rate in the United States is 1.8 births per woman.  The US is below re-population rate.  As a culture we are literally killing ourselves. The only reason the population in the US is growing is due to immigration. Let that sink in for just a minute.

 

Sure there are some cases where having children is probably not warranted, i.e. abusive cases where the marriage is in doubt. But the Lord's church and Christ has pretty much specified that unless it's Abuse or Adultery, divorce is almost always not justified. The only reason to not bring children into a marriage is if there is a high likelihood that the marriage will be dissolved. Other than that, there is no good reason to be selfish and not have kids.  Yes, by not having kids the married couple is being selfish.

 

I will never claim to know when a couple should have children, that is a decision for them and God.  The only time I'll say when not to have kids is when the marriage is in doubt and the only time the marriage should be in doubt is in cases of abuse or adultery; otherwise the marriage shouldn't be in doubt and their shouldn't be a reason to not bring kids in.

 

You get married to have a family, to fulfill the 1st great commandment, "replenish the earth".  If one does not have that in mind, i.e. to follow God's 1st commandment to "be fruitful and multiply", then that individual and couple is prideful and selfish.

 

God didn't say, "be happy and only when everything is peachy then have kids".  That's part of being married, it's a near unbreakable covenant.

 

We absolutely have the duty and moral responsibility to raise them in the best way possible . . . but best way possible, doesn't mean best circumstances. If people in the past had children the way modern culture looks upon having children, simply put we wouldn't be here-b/c they would have all died off.

You are way out of bounds.  If a home has the potential to be broken, a child will not fix that home.  You are actually advising them to be irresponsible and selfish.  Nothing could be more so than bringing a child into a home where there is instability.  Do you have any idea how damaging divorce is to children?

 

Yeah, most homes aren't perfect, nobody is suggesting everything has to be perfect before you have a child.  

 

If the marriage is in question it is selfish to bring a child into that situation.  Part of the responsibility of parents is to give their children the best chance at life.  Broken homes aren't it.   Suggesting that bringing a child into that situation or potential situation is actually treating them like a small toy or tool for manipulation.  

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The only reason to not bring children into a marriage is if there is a high likelihood that the marriage will be dissolved. Other than that, there is no good reason to be selfish and not have kids.  Yes, by not having kids the married couple is being selfish.

 

I will never claim to know when a couple should have children, that is a decision for them and God.  The only time I'll say when not to have kids is when the marriage is in doubt and the only time the marriage should be in doubt is in cases of abuse or adultery; otherwise the marriage shouldn't be in doubt and their shouldn't be a reason to not bring kids in.

 

You get married to have a family, to fulfill the 1st great commandment, "replenish the earth".  If one does not have that in mind, i.e. to follow God's 1st commandment to "be fruitful and multiply", then that individual and couple is prideful and selfish.

 

God didn't say, "be happy and only when everything is peachy then have kids".  That's part of being married, it's a near unbreakable covenant.

 

We absolutely have the duty and moral responsibility to raise them in the best way possible . . . but best way possible, doesn't mean best circumstances. If people in the past had children the way modern culture looks upon having children, simply put we wouldn't be here-b/c they would have all died off.

 

I just have to comment on this because you're thinking is pretty narrow here.  

~What if the wife (who would be the one taking care of said kids) felt she had a temper and might be abusive?

~What if the wife (again - primary caretaker) had severe depression and even if that got resolved didn't want to ever go back there again (ie postpartum, sleep deprivation, etc)?

~What if the wife (primary caretaker) didn't want to sign up to practically be a single parent because the husband is gone all the time?

~What if the wife (primary caretaker) needed to find something for herself so she doesn't lose herself in caretaking?

~What if there are health issues that would be exacerbated?

~What if it turns out that husband reveals a porn issue and the wife would prefer to raise kids in a home where she knows she can call on the priesthood?

~What if the marriage needed more date nights to ensure that kids didn't put things way off balance?

 

The above are just a few examples but let me add that marriage (even without kids) still has a purpose.  What I think is selfish is my friend's situation where the husband was part of bringing kids into the world but does *nothing* to help with them.  How is that situation any better but it's one that you hear about quite often?  You tell me who is more selfish but I hope your judgments don't come back to bite you:

 

 Matthew 7: 1-2

Judge not, that ye be not judged.

For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

Edited by notquiteperfect
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I just have to comment on this because you're thinking is pretty narrow here.  

~What if the wife (who would be the one taking care of said kids) felt she had a temper and might be abusive?

~What if the wife (again - primary caretaker) had severe depression and even if that got resolved didn't want to ever go back there again (ie postpartum, sleep deprivation, etc)?

<snip>

~What if the wife (primary caretaker) needed to find something for herself so she doesn't lose herself in caretaking?

~What if there are health issues that would be exacerbated?

~What if it turns out that husband reveals a porn issue and the wife would prefer to raise kids in a home where she knows she can call on the priesthood?

~What if the marriage needed more date nights to ensure that kids didn't put things way off balance?

 

You're talking about me right there.  I have 2 kids.  If I were to do it over, will I still have the kids?  Yep.

 

The thing about kids is - they have their own intelligences.  Their own spirits.  So, if you are an eternal family - that is, each member of the family works towards being together forever and ever and ever and ever... and they are taught proper principles - the kids start to contribute to the solution of whatever problem the marriage, or the family, faces... well, that is if, like my family, the kids are not completely shielded from the problems, rather, they are taught how to cope with the problems.  In my house, just because mommy is an idiot doesn't give kids the license to be idiots.

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I just have to comment on this because you're thinking is pretty narrow here.  

~What if the wife (who would be the one taking care of said kids) felt she had a temper and might be abusive?

~What if the wife (again - primary caretaker) had severe depression and even if that got resolved didn't want to ever go back there again (ie postpartum, sleep deprivation, etc)?

~What if the wife (primary caretaker) didn't want to sign up to practically be a single parent because the husband is gone all the time?

~What if the wife (primary caretaker) needed to find something for herself so she doesn't lose herself in caretaking?

~What if there are health issues that would be exacerbated?

~What if it turns out that husband reveals a porn issue and the wife would prefer to raise kids in a home where she knows she can call on the priesthood?

~What if the marriage needed more date nights to ensure that kids didn't put things way off balance?

 

The above are just a few examples but let me add that marriage (even without kids) still has a purpose.  What I think is selfish is my friend's situation where the husband was part of bringing kids into the world but does *nothing* to help with them.  How is that situation any better but it's one that you hear about quite often?  You tell me who is more selfish but I hope your judgments don't come back to bite you:

 

 Matthew 7: 1-2

Judge not, that ye be not judged.

For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

 

Sorry, my comment is and so what . . . . life ain't perfect. 

 

Which is more selfish, to deny a child the opportunity to live on this earth or to say well they shouldn't have kids b/c of xyz reason.  The purpose of life is to come to earth, gain a body, and experience life. Through marriage is how it is done.

 

Unless of cases of Abuse or Adultery, and maybe in addiction (which is a really it depends) divorce should not be on the table.

 

I never said I would advise someone when to have kids or how many, that is for them and God. The only time I would say not to have kids is when divorce is on the table.

Edited by yjacket
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You are way out of bounds.  If a home has the potential to be broken, a child will not fix that home.  You are actually advising them to be irresponsible and selfish.  Nothing could be more so than bringing a child into a home where there is instability.  Do you have any idea how damaging divorce is to children?

 

Yeah, most homes aren't perfect, nobody is suggesting everything has to be perfect before you have a child.  

 

If the marriage is in question it is selfish to bring a child into that situation.  Part of the responsibility of parents is to give their children the best chance at life.  Broken homes aren't it.   Suggesting that bringing a child into that situation or potential situation is actually treating them like a small toy or tool for manipulation.  

 

You'll notice that I qualified everything with a if divorce is on the table.  Divorce should only be on the table in abusive relationships or in cases of adultery.

 

If divorce is on the table and your relationship isn't abusive or adultery, then you will never fix the problems. Problems don't get fixed when one person is eyeing the exit every 5 min. wondering if they should split.

 

And I never said that one should bring a child into the marriage to "fix" it.

Edited by yjacket
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Finally, kids are blessing and a joy.  No one here knows your situation deeply and personally I think it's rather brash for someone who doesn't know you to tell you to not have kids.  To have kids or not is an intensly personal decision that should remain between you, your husband and God (even if your husband doesn't believe in Him).
 
 

First you said the above, then you qualified when you said: 

 

"The only time I'll say when not to have kids is when the marriage is in doubt and the only time the marriage should be in doubt is in cases of abuse or adultery; otherwise the marriage shouldn't be in doubt and their shouldn't be a reason to not bring kids in."

 

FYI not all people get divorced only for the 3 A's.   

 

You left out one of the A's by the way.... "addiction"

Edited by mdfxdb
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I'm so sorry to hear this, my dear.

 

Ask yourself how necessary it is for you to have your husband in the Church. Was this ever discussed as a deal-breaker for your marriage?

 

If you can accept a mixed-faith marriage, you can make it work and hopefully make it work well. This being said, I am divorced because of inability to accept a mixed-faith. This is a big, big deal. Can you accept him as a non-member? Can he accept you as a member?

 

Then, serve him. Focus on the parts of the marriage where you are in agreement.

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First you said the above, then you qualified when you said: 

 

"The only time I'll say when not to have kids is when the marriage is in doubt and the only time the marriage should be in doubt is in cases of abuse or adultery; otherwise the marriage shouldn't be in doubt and their shouldn't be a reason to not bring kids in."

 

FYI not all people get divorced only for the 3 A's.   

 

You left out one of the A's by the way.... "addiction"

 

I never said people don't get divorced for only the As, only that according to the scriptures and what modern day prophets have revealed, the only justifiable cases of divorce are Abuse and Adultery.  

 

Addiction is a tricky one, but it may or may not justifiable.  For example if someone is a functional alcoholic, I personally don't think that in itself is divorce worthy.  Does the functional alcoholic need help . . .absolutely

 

http://alcoholism.about.com/od/problem/a/functional.htm

 

What about internet addiction, simply always needed to be tapped in . . . some people can't break away from facebook and/or social media.  That is just as much of an addiction, while it might be easier to break, it is still an addiction.

 

I haven't read anything in the scriptures or any talks given by modern day leaders of the church that states that addiction is prima facie justifiable divorce.  It may be, the alcoholic that can't function-drunk all day, spends all his families money, sure. The highly function alcoholic . . . maybe not.  Not all addictions are equal.

 

The difference between Abuse and Adultery vs. Addiction is that the first two are prima facie justifiable divorce-not that divorce is mandatory or even necessary, simply that if someone walks into the room and says my husband committed adultery or abuses me and I divorced him, no questions.  If someone says I divorced my husband b/c of addiction, the question is well what kind of an addiction was it.  

 

For example, some men are addicted to work, yet I would hardly say that is a reason for divorce.

 

The problem with claiming Addiction as a justifiable reason is that such a wide range of behaviors could be classified as Addiction and so people then feel justified in divorcing without looking at the beam in their own eye.

 

Abuse and Adultery are pretty clear cut; yeah they might be some fudge room on emotional abuse but for the most part it's pretty cut and dry what it is.

Edited by yjacket
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Abuse and Adultery are pretty clear cut; yeah they might be some fudge room on emotional abuse but for the most part it's pretty cut and dry what it is.

 

Physical abuse is clear cut. Emotional, not at all clear cut. I would say that the same applies therein as to what you described in the addiction situation. We are all, at some level, emotionally abusive to others. Every one of us! There is no marriage without some level of emotional abuse at some point.

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Physical abuse is clear cut. Emotional, not at all clear cut. I would say that the same applies therein as to what you described in the addiction situation. We are all, at some level, emotionally abusive to others. Every one of us! There is no marriage without some level of emotional abuse at some point.

 

You're probably right . . . I'll be a little more accurate with my phrasing, I think of abuse as Physical and Verbal-those are pretty clear cut.

 

Emotional (from wiki:)

"As of 1996,[4] there are "no consensus views about the definition of emotional abuse." As such, clinicians and researchers have offered sometimes divergent definitions of emotional abuse. However, the widely used Conflict Tactics Scale measures roughly twenty distinct acts of "psychological aggression" in three different categories:

  1. Verbal aggression (e.g., saying something that upsets or annoys someone else);
  2. Dominant behaviors (e.g., preventing someone from contacting their family);
  3. Jealous behaviors (e.g., accusing a partner of maintaining other parallel relations)."

 

That doesn't really define behaviors so I think the DoJ definition of behavior works.

 

"The U.S. Department of Justice defines emotionally abusive traits as including causing fear by: intimidation, threatening physical harm to self, partner, children, or partner's family or friends, destruction of pets and property, forcing isolation from family, friends, or school or work.[8] Subtler emotionally abusive tactics include insults, putdowns, arbitrary and unpredictable inconsistency, and gaslighting (the denial that previous abusive incidents occurred). Modern technology has led to new forms of abuse, by text messaging and online cyber-bullying."

 

Emotional abuse is can certainly be very grey . . . so I'd probably go something like Adultery, Physical Abuse, Verbal Abuse. With Emotional Abuse being between Verbal Abuse and Addiction, i.e. may be justifiable may not.

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