Just_A_Guy Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) Supreme Court Agrees to Take On Same-sex Marriage Issue Edited January 16, 2015 by Just_A_Guy jerome1232 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerome1232 Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 But seriously, for better or for worse, I'm glad they are taking it finally. Backroads and Crypto 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crypto Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 uh oh, here we go again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolarVortex Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 I predict that the Supreme Court will rule 6-3 in favor of same-sex marriage and that five years from now same-sex marriages will be performed in far fewer numbers than anybody predicts now. Fifty years from now, students will read about this issue and wonder what the furor was all about. I also predict that this decision will need some mopping up that will take another ten years or so. For example, I don't believe that two gay brothers can legally marry in some states that allow same-sex marriage now, and there will always be people asking why not. There will also be court challenges to laws that prohibit polygamy, but they won't go anywhere. Of all the current issues that bore me to tears, I confess that same-sex marriage is at the top of the list. *Yawn* Glad it will be mostly over soon. Backroads, Jane_Doe and Crypto 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 There will also be court challenges to laws that prohibit polygamy, but they won't go anywhere. How can you think that when it already HAS gone somewhere -- in that it was decriminalized in Utah (of all places) precisely because of these legal issues? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yjacket Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 If laws against SSM are struct down as unconstitutional, you can bet that laws against polygamy will eventually be struck down. Which I find very interesting . . . does that mean that in my children's lifetime polygamy will once again be part of the church. Would that at some point open doors to Muslim and Middle Eastern families?? The Supreme Court, contrary to being the final arbitrator of the law, kind of follows cultural norms. Even if they don't my bet is that within 10-15 years almost all states will have SSM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 Would that at some point open doors to Muslim and Middle Eastern families?? This ^ is the one reason why I think that your suggestion may actually be a future possibility. Very interesting, indeed. Crypto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bytor2112 Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 Maybe John Roberts redeems himself and hopefully Elena Kagan recuses herself....and Sotomayor and Gins....' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlimac Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) The Supreme Court, contrary to being the final arbitrator of the law, kind of follows cultural norms. Even if they don't my bet is that within 10-15 years almost all states will have SSM. If they don't ban it methinks it will be in every state in 3 yrs or less except one or two hold outs in the south. Edited January 19, 2015 by carlimac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maureen Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 ...For example, I don't believe that two gay brothers can legally marry in some states that allow same-sex marriage now, and there will always be people asking why not.... Two gay brothers.....marrying each other? I would think that not being legal to marry each other, would mostly have to do with them being siblings. :) M. Backroads, Crypto and carlimac 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerome1232 Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 Two gay brothers.....marrying each other? I would think that not being legal to marry each other, would mostly have to do with them being siblings. :) M.Exactly, why would the "marry for love" stop there? I'm not trying to be ridiculous, It's a serious question. What reasoning could be used to ban that, that doesn't also apply to homosexual unions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightSG Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 Maybe John Roberts redeems himself and hopefully Elena Kagan recuses herself.... Or Mike Myers finally admits that he's been Kagan all along and ends the joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlimac Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 Exactly, why would the "marry for love" stop there? I'm not trying to be ridiculous, It's a serious question. What reasoning could be used to ban that, that doesn't also apply to homosexual unions?True. They can't conceive so the genetic issues of a child wouldn't apply. Same goes for two lesbian sisters. Which brings us almost to full circle. Why not just give two people who want to share govt. benefits what they want and leave the whole "love and marriage" out of it. That way the focus is more on the benefits and less on what they might or might not do in the bedroom. They get to have legal rights and we don't have to know what level their relationship is on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolarVortex Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 I was invited to a party a few weeks ago and met a same-sex couple that had recently married. They seemed like nice guys. I tried to make pleasant small talk with them, and the topic turned to this very question: whether two brothers or two sisters should be allowed to marry. Their answer was something like this: "No.... I mean yes... I mean no... I mean yes... I mean..." Something deep inside them was repulsed by the idea of incest, and yet they couldn't bear to abandon the party line that any two consenting adults should be allowed to marry. It was an interesting dilemma. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolarVortex Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 Oh, and about the polygamy thing... I think there would still be plenty of support for a constitutional amendment to ban polygamy if voters started to believe that the courts were poised to legalize it. I don't think many liberals and feminists would fight to legalize polygyny the way they fought to legalize same-sex marriage. But who knows. Always in motion is the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarginOfError Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 Oh, and about the polygamy thing... I think there would still be plenty of support for a constitutional amendment to ban polygamy if voters started to believe that the courts were poised to legalize it. I don't think many liberals and feminists would fight to legalize polygyny the way they fought to legalize same-sex marriage. But who knows. Always in motion is the future. I think you'd find an interesting change of roles. I imagine it would be a more conservative group in favor of polygamy (think, fundamentalist Christians and Muslims) and liberals would be very against it. Polygamy has long been tied to the subjugation of women, and that isn't something liberals are likely to forget very easily. There's also a good body of evidence that there are a number of social ills that arise when polygamy is established that would be used as ammo against polygamy. I think, by and large, it would be a hard sell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just_A_Guy Posted January 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) I think you'd find an interesting change of roles. I imagine it would be a more conservative group in favor of polygamy (think, fundamentalist Christians and Muslims) and liberals would be very against it. Polygamy has long been tied to the subjugation of women, and that isn't something liberals are likely to forget very easily. There's also a good body of evidence that there are a number of social ills that arise when polygamy is established that would be used as ammo against polygamy. I think, by and large, it would be a hard sell. I don't think most fundie Christians would line up in favor of it. On the other hand--if Muslim voters unify behind such a proposal, I think it might well succeed. "Tolerance" covereth a multitude of data. Besides--as a society we've already largely accepted "polygamy" in the incarnation of serial monogamy. A few wealthy white women in professional and academic circles may be able to isolate themselves from the natural result of such relationships; but most women don't find single parenthood to be terribly liberating. Edited January 19, 2015 by Just_A_Guy Crypto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 Can an LDS person support gay marriage without getting excommunicated? I know it's dangerous to ask such a loaded question, but I ask in sheer ignorance. I'm new to the church and simply don't know the answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just_A_Guy Posted January 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) Civil gay marriage? Sure. Start asserting that gay sex isn't sinful or that the Church should solemnize gay sealings, and your bishop might get kind of cranky. I know John Dehlin, who is currently facing disciplinary proceedings, has issued a press release saying his discipline is due to his support for gay marriage; and no less an august body than the New York Times has repeated that claim. Unfortunately for smilin' John, he also posted his Stake President's letter summoning him to the council on his website--and the stated grounds for the council are not Dehlin's support of gay marriage; but his denial of the need for a Savior figure, his renunciation of the divinity of Jesus Christ, and his rejection of the Book of Mormon and the divine authority of the Church leadership. So--no. Supporting gay marriage won't get you excommunicated. (But it might subject you to a litany of LDS.net forum posts eager to tell you how wrong you are!) Edited January 19, 2015 by Just_A_Guy Crypto and Vort 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) Can an LDS person support gay marriage without getting excommunicated? The answer is an unqualified* "yes". You can believe all sorts of nonstandard and even obvious false things -- horoscopes, reincarnation, unfettered abortion "rights", and yes, even a "right" to homosexual "marriage" -- without fear of ecclesiastic reprisal. What you cannot do is (1) teach your ideas as LDS doctrine, (2) undermine the authority of the LDS Church in such matters, or (3) act in open defiance of the Church or of its leaders, such as refusing to comply with a direct instruction of your bishop or stake president. Such actions constitute apostasy, at least in the LDS usage of that term, and could well get you excommunicated. *EDIT: Okay, maybe not so "unqualified". As JAG pointed out, it depends on whether you are supporting the civil act of homosexual "marriage" or agitating for such to be included in LDS practice and doctrine. The former is allowed (however foolish and damaging it may be); the latter is certainly not. Edited January 19, 2015 by Vort Just_A_Guy and Blackmarch 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 Can an LDS person support gay marriage without getting excommunicated? In other words, (based on what JaG and Vor have explained), it really depends on what you mean by "support". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 In other words, (based on what JaG and Vor have explained), it really depends on what you mean by "support".Agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightSG Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 Civil gay marriage? Sort of a misnomer; I haven't heard many of the pro-gay-marriage crowd that could be civil about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 So... an 18 year old woman want to marry her biological dad in New Jersey.... Interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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