Guest Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 I think climate change caused the balls to be under-inflatied. I also believe that the Patriots caused climate change. Therefore, they cheated AND are destroying the Earth! Disclaimer: Rumors of my believing these things have been greatly exagerated... I'm telling your parish priest you've been spreading rumors... :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claire Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 I'm telling your parish priest you've been spreading rumors... :) The following people are in a state of mortal sin for committing the sin of scandal: me Fortunately I think the culpability for any sins committed against the Patriots is severely mitigated due to their stupid faces. The following people are in a state of mortal sin for spouting heresy: me Maybe I should just stop now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just_A_Guy Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 (edited) Brady plays in New England most of the time - where Fall and Winter are cold. The rest of the time he is playing half of it in places like Green Bay where temps go negative or Seattle where atmospheric pressures fluctuate... or he plays in places like Florida or Texas where it is hot and muggy all through Winter. A good quarterback needs to be able to play ANY ball the Refs hand to him. It is not his job to complain about the condition of the ball unless the ball affects his game negatively. It is his job to win a game. It is the Refs job to enforce regulation rules. Now, there is, of course, the assumption that ALL balls except for the Patriots balls are not underinflated and that the underinflation in the Pat's vs Colts game is completely out of the ordinary. I still haven't seen anybody show that the Colts balls were not underinflated and neither is all the other balls played in the play-offs. Didn't someone recently demonstrate that the balls would have to have been originally inflated with ninety-degree air to be underinflated by 2 PSI at game temperature? If saying "well, this soft ball is the ref's problem, not mine, so I'm going to use the advantage handed to me and play the ball even though I know darned well it's underinflated" is smart playing, isn't it smarter to say "hey, this soft ball could get me accused of cheating. I'm going to ask the ref to double-check it right now"? Edited January 27, 2015 by Just_A_Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 (edited) Didn't someone recently demonstrate that the balls would have to have been originally inflated with ninety-degree air to be underinflated by 2 PSI at game temperature? If saying "well, this soft ball is the ref's problem, not mine, so I'm going to use the advantage handed to me and play the ball even though I know darned well it's underinflated" is smart playing, isn't it smarter to say "hey, this soft ball could get me accused of cheating. I'm going to ask the ref to double-check it right now"? A scientist from some Boston university did some mathematical calculations. He, of course, did not allow for any other conditions present in the field. He merely calculated Gas Law - which interestingly (you can do the math yourself) - does not eliminate close to 2 psi as highly unreasonable. And the balls were not underinflated by 2 psi but between 1 and 2 psi. Like I said - a mathematical calculation from some guy in Boston does not trump empirical evidence. It's easy enough to check ALL the balls - not just the Patriot's balls in the Pats vs Colts game. Why would Brady ask the ref to inspect the ball in the middle of a winning play when refs occasionally throw balls out of play themselves and NOBODY has ever worried about ball inflation ever? Unless, of course, he has powers of foreseeing the future - Brady is good but not that good. Edited January 27, 2015 by anatess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palerider Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 Like I said earlier they will slap the Patriots on the hand sometime after the Super Bowl and say shame on you.....and the poor locker room dude will ride off into the sunset. I would take Manning for my team if I had to pick one quarterback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palerider Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 (edited) If you want to read a article for the sake of debate or argument or whatever you want to call it....LolGo check out www.wnd.com and read the article about Brady and the Patriots. It might be wnd.com Edited January 27, 2015 by Palerider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 A scientist from some Boston university did some mathematical calculations. This doesn't take a Boston U scientist. We can do it right here on LDS.net, using nothing more than string, some baling wire, and junior high level algebra. The ideal gas law, which is pretty darn close to reality for our purposes, is: PV = nRT where P is pressureV is volumen is number of molecules of gas (typically measured in moles)R is the magical gas constant that makes all the numbers come out rightT is the temperature Since the volume of the football is constant, as are the number of air molecules in the football and the gas constant (hint: gas CONSTANT), we can make this equation super-easy: P∝T where ∝ is the proportionality sign: P is proportional to T (in other words P=aT, where a is a constant). This means that a change in P will exactly reflect the same change in T: ΔP∝ΔT The pressure dropped at least 1 psi. If we assume the ball was minimally inflated to 12.5 psi and that it was found at 11.5 psi, this is a difference of 1/12.5 = 8%. MINIMUM. The ball was AT LEAST 8% short of its low-end required temperature. That means that the temperature was AT LEAST 8% below the temperature when it was filled (see the proportionality sign above). Now, according to this article, the temperature never dropped below 47° F during the game. Now, 47° F is 8⅓° C (call it 8° C), or a bit over 281 Kelvins. If that represents an 8% drop in temperature, that means the original temperature must have been X such that 0.92X = 281 or X = 281/0.92 = about 306 Kelvins = 33° C = something over 91° F. MINIMUM. Best possible case: The balls were filled with air at 91° F to the absolute bare minimum allowed, then cooled all the way down to the minimum air temperature recorded during the entire game and measured when they EXACTLY hit that minimum temperature. Of course, if the number was actually more like 1.5 psi too low, that means the air used to inflate the footballs would have had to have been at least 113° F. Credible? Believe it if you want. I'm sure there are people waiting in line to make you a killer deal on the Brooklyn bridge. mordorbund 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 This doesn't take a Boston U scientist. We can do it right here on LDS.net, using nothing more than string, some baling wire, and junior high level algebra. The ideal gas law, which is pretty darn close to reality for our purposes, is: PV = nRT where P is pressureV is volumen is number of molecules of gas (typically measured in moles)R is the magical gas constant that makes all the numbers come out rightT is the temperature Since the volume of the football is constant, as are the number of air molecules in the football and the gas constant (hint: gas CONSTANT), we can make this equation super-easy: P∝T where ∝ is the proportionality sign: P is proportional to T (in other words P=aT, where a is a constant). This means that a change in P will exactly reflect the same change in T: ΔP∝ΔT The pressure dropped at least 1 psi. If we assume the ball was minimally inflated to 12.5 psi and that it was found at 11.5 psi, this is a difference of 1/12.5 = 8%. MINIMUM. The ball was AT LEAST 8% short of its low-end required temperature. That means that the temperature was AT LEAST 8% below the temperature when it was filled (see the proportionality sign above). Now, according to this article, the temperature never dropped below 47° F during the game. Now, 47° F is 8⅓° C (call it 8° C), or a bit over 281 Kelvins. If that represents an 8% drop in temperature, that means the original temperature must have been X such that 0.92X = 281 or X = 281/0.92 = about 306 Kelvins = 33° C = something over 91° F. MINIMUM. Best possible case: The balls were filled with air at 91° F to the absolute bare minimum allowed, then cooled all the way down to the minimum air temperature recorded during the entire game and measured when they EXACTLY hit that minimum temperature. Of course, if the number was actually more like 1.5 psi too low, that means the air used to inflate the footballs would have had to have been at least 113° F. Credible? Believe it if you want. I'm sure there are people waiting in line to make you a killer deal on the Brooklyn bridge. Very good except for one comment... pressure is not pressure inside the football. It's pressure acting against the football - inside and out. So 8% delta is a science lab number where a football is not subject to any other fluctuating pressure besides the pressure of air inside the football. I still want to see the ball measurements of the Colts balls. Why is that info not available? But, even if we take the Patriots field as a science lab, that still doesn't tell me that Brady and/or Belicheck deflated the footballs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claire Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 This doesn't take a Boston U scientist. We can do it right here on LDS.net, using nothing more than string, some baling wire, and junior high level algebra. The ideal gas law, which is pretty darn close to reality for our purposes, is: PV = nRT where P is pressureV is volumen is number of molecules of gas (typically measured in moles)R is the magical gas constant that makes all the numbers come out rightT is the temperature Since the volume of the football is constant, as are the number of air molecules in the football and the gas constant (hint: gas CONSTANT), we can make this equation super-easy: P∝T where ∝ is the proportionality sign: P is proportional to T (in other words P=aT, where a is a constant). This means that a change in P will exactly reflect the same change in T: ΔP∝ΔT The pressure dropped at least 1 psi. If we assume the ball was minimally inflated to 12.5 psi and that it was found at 11.5 psi, this is a difference of 1/12.5 = 8%. MINIMUM. The ball was AT LEAST 8% short of its low-end required temperature. That means that the temperature was AT LEAST 8% below the temperature when it was filled (see the proportionality sign above). Now, according to this article, the temperature never dropped below 47° F during the game. Now, 47° F is 8⅓° C (call it 8° C), or a bit over 281 Kelvins. If that represents an 8% drop in temperature, that means the original temperature must have been X such that 0.92X = 281 or X = 281/0.92 = about 306 Kelvins = 33° C = something over 91° F. MINIMUM. Best possible case: The balls were filled with air at 91° F to the absolute bare minimum allowed, then cooled all the way down to the minimum air temperature recorded during the entire game and measured when they EXACTLY hit that minimum temperature. Of course, if the number was actually more like 1.5 psi too low, that means the air used to inflate the footballs would have had to have been at least 113° F. Credible? Believe it if you want. I'm sure there are people waiting in line to make you a killer deal on the Brooklyn bridge. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't compressing the air while you fill the football also elevate the temperature of the ball, meaning the ball may reasonably have been at a temperature higher than room temperature when done filling. My boyfriend mentioned a while back that he used to work in a job where he filled tanks with air. If he filled them too fast, they would get hot, and then they would be at too low of a pressure when they cooled back down. Couldn't that also have happened here? Don't get me wrong, I'm sure that the effect wouldn't be as significant in a football, but it seems like increasing the pressure in the first place would also have raised the temperature, compounding the effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't compressing the air while you fill the football also elevate the temperature of the ball, meaning the ball may reasonably have been at a temperature higher than room temperature when done filling. My boyfriend mentioned a while back that he used to work in a job where he filled tanks with air. If he filled them too fast, they would get hot, and then they would be at too low of a pressure when they cooled back down. Couldn't that also have happened here? Don't get me wrong, I'm sure that the effect wouldn't be as significant in a football, but it seems like increasing the pressure in the first place would also have raised the temperature, compounding the effect. There are a whole slew of factors that could affect the pressure of the football. A 300-lb linebacker dropping on that ball would be a factor. The NFL rule is that the football is 12.5-13.5 at inspection and untampered by human hands hence. That's why I've been asking what the initial and field pressures of the Colts balls - or any other balls played in the play-offs - are. Because that is the compelling argument against deflated footballs. The guy taking a 90-second pee-break in the restroom to deflate 11 footballs is another mathematical improbability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palerider Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 There is now a petition going around to have the Patriots removed and to play a AFC championship game between the Colts and Ravens. It was on Fox Sports....did not look to see if any others had a story about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Well, well, well... What have we here...http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/30/sports/football/deflation-experiments-show-patriots-may-have-science-on-their-side-after-all.html?WT.mc_id=2015-JAN-OUTBRAIN-VIEWED_AUD_DEV-0121-0131&WT.mc_ev=click&ad-keywords=OUTBRAINAD&_r=0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palerider Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 There are several links I could post here telling how the Baltimore Ravens tipped off the Colts about deflated footballs. There are several stories out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Well, well, well... What have we here...http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/30/sports/football/deflation-experiments-show-patriots-may-have-science-on-their-side-after-all.html?WT.mc_id=2015-JAN-OUTBRAIN-VIEWED_AUD_DEV-0121-0131&WT.mc_ev=click&ad-keywords=OUTBRAINAD&_r=0 He must be a Patriots fan. mirkwood and Palerider 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palerider Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 I am not buying his article..... pam 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 I am not buying his article..... I thought it was guilty until proven innocent. I guess it's just Guilty period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palerider Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 This started with the Ravens game...they told the Colts they found deflated balls. This just didn't happen during the Colts game apparently. That's all I am saying. mirkwood 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 (edited) This started with the Ravens game...they told the Colts they found deflated balls. This just didn't happen during the Colts game apparently. That's all I am saying. And this is really the thing I've been saying. I hope you won't assume your wife is a cheater because somebody told you she texts this guy at 4pm every Sunday... so you checked next Sunday and sure enough you found a text in her phone at 4pm. So yeah, Cheater. Guilty. Never mind that her boss makes a habit of texting her at 4pm on Sunday to ask if she needs anything for Monday or that it was 23 degrees during the Raven's game. Edited February 1, 2015 by anatess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palerider Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 And this is really the thing I've been saying. I hope you won't assume your wife is a cheater because somebody told you she texts this guy at 4pm every Sunday... so you checked next Sunday and sure enough you found a text in her phone at 4pm. So yeah, Cheater. Guilty. Never mind that her boss makes a habit of texting her at 4pm on Sunday to ask if she needs anything for Monday or that it was 23 degrees during the Raven's game.I don't know who let the air out.....I do feel someone did on that team or part of that organization. All I have is my opinion and all the articles I read to base my feelings on. I am not trying to convince anyone to believe the way I do. I could get more technical and go thru the fumble rate of the Patriots over the years compared to other teams. They always have a low fumble rate. If there is less air in the game balls perhaps that's why. I don't think all the people that have ran thru this organization were always excellent at not fumbling. I am waiting for this gutless commissioner to make his announcement of their investigation. mirkwood 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirkwood Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 An expert opinion. “I mean, it’s easy to figure out who did it,” Montana said. “Did Tom do it? No, but Tom likes the balls that way, obviously, or you wouldn’t have 11 of them that way without him complaining, because as a quarterback, you know how you like the ball. If it doesn’t feel like that, something is wrong. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/29/joe-montana-thinks-tom-brady-ordered-footballs-to-be-deflated/ Brady knew the condition of the balls. That or he is the dumbest QB out there...which I don't believe. Palerider 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palerider Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 I just read another article where they stated if the Patriots did not deflate then they are owed an apology....really....just like they apologized when they were guilty of cheating.....good ole Goodell and his garage league. Lol mirkwood 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palerider Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 An expert opinion. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/29/joe-montana-thinks-tom-brady-ordered-footballs-to-be-deflated/ Brady knew the condition of the balls. That or he is the dumbest QB out there...which I don't believe.There were other QB's from several years ago who said they had balls deflated and one said he paid a guy to do it. mirkwood 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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