Celestial kingdom and marriage...


mroviatt1
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So. I am an 18 year old male, finishing up high school and about to serve a mission this summer, but there's this girl that I really, reeeally like. This girl, however, is a nonmember. My parents are very.....Mormon (?) I guess, (not that I'm not), and they only want me to marry a girl in the temple. This girl has been exposed to the church and we've talked a lot about it, but she's not interested in joining. I heard that temple marriage is a requirement to be in the celestial kingdom, and that was a downer, to put it lightly. I really want to be there, of course. I know of other faithful members who did not have temple marriages. Any ideas on what's going to happen? This is all assuming that we do get married after my mission and survive college. It's a possibility. True to the Faith says that there are three degrees within the celestial kingdom, and that temple marriage is required only for the highest degree. Is there common speculation or doctrine? Thanks!

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You are waaaaayyyy too young to even be worried about marriage. Go on your mission and cross that bridge when you come to it.

 

But since that's going to be hard advice to follow, I say don't sell yourself short. I know she seems like the one and only, best thing since sliced bread girl in the world right now, but you've hardly seen the world yet. There are lots and lots of girls out there. Not that she isn't a great one; I'm sure she is. But there's likely another girl just as great and even better for you, because you share the same goals and values.

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(p.s., I am speaking as someone who had a boyfriend from age 14 to age 17 that I was totally head-over-heels in love with. I have no doubt I would have waited for him and married him after his mission if he hadn't changed his mind about me. He broke my heart, but thank goodness he did, because in hindsight and now knowing what I have with my husband, which is a million times more true and fitting, we would not have been very happy together.)

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My parents are very.....Mormon (?) I guess, (not that I'm not),

 

These things being the case, I'm a bit flabbergasted that you do not know the answer to these questions.

 

 

 Is there common speculation or doctrine? 

 

Doctrine. And this is one that no one can really argue against, as it's scriptural.

 

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/131.1,2,3,4?lang=eng#1

Edited by The Folk Prophet
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I have a friend who dated a girl from their sophmore year in High school till a year after they both got off their missions. After the mission I thought they were going to get married but they ended up breaking up. The girl is in my ward now and she has been happily married to another RM for 12 years now.

 

She told me that there was some sort of a mental block in my friends mind that did not allow for his brain to see and treat her as a 22 year old adult. For some reason he was still childish and treated her like a 16yr old girl. He has also moved on and married a wonderful girl and their realtionship is solid too.

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She told me that there was some sort of a mental block in my friends mind that did not allow for his brain to see and treat her as a 22 year old adult. For some reason he was still childish and treated her like a 16yr old girl. 

 

This is why I utterly despise the "don't date, just hang out and be friends, then see if something comes from that" mentality; you're establishing a "just friends" mindset that's nearly impossible to break.

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I'm echoing Eowyn's comment on being too young to think about the matter. Even without a mission, both your lives will change dramatically in the next four to five years. Think how different you are now than you were four years ago, or even two years ago. That personal growth won't slow down until you are about 24 (the perfect time to marry). Until then, you should be enjoying life. Love her, appreciate her, serve her, plan for life after your mission, but expect her and yourself to change. 

 

The Folk Prophet's response was a bit abrupt and fact is you may NOT know the answers yet, but you soon will grow into them. 

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So. I am an 18 year old male, finishing up high school and about to serve a mission this summer, but there's this girl that I really, reeeally like. This girl, however, is a nonmember. My parents are very.....Mormon (?) I guess, (not that I'm not), and they only want me to marry a girl in the temple. This girl has been exposed to the church and we've talked a lot about it, but she's not interested in joining. I heard that temple marriage is a requirement to be in the celestial kingdom, and that was a downer, to put it lightly. I really want to be there, of course. I know of other faithful members who did not have temple marriages. Any ideas on what's going to happen? This is all assuming that we do get married after my mission and survive college. It's a possibility. True to the Faith says that there are three degrees within the celestial kingdom, and that temple marriage is required only for the highest degree. Is there common speculation or doctrine? Thanks!

 

I have differing opinions – from my own life; my wife was the third girl I dated more than twice in a row.  I dated a lot – and won a bet with friends to kiss 50 different dates first in high school and tied a contest in college for most different dates in a day – 6.  I was 26 when I finely married.  I do not remember the names of most of the girls I dated and to be honest there are a lot of ladies that I dated that I have forgotten.

 

There are several ideas and concepts that have come from my dating experience:

 

1. You do not need to have marriage in mind to have a great and fun experience on a date – in fact I believe that such a goal in dating can ruin the dating and eventually courting experience.

 

2. You should not consider only dating the perfect or soul mate.  I am not talking about charity dates – just getting to know others and have a great fun time with them.  I do not believe in “type”.  Sometimes friends would say of a lady – she is not your type.  I would say, “Is she the type that will wear a dress and like to hold a guy’s hand, smile, laugh and enjoy doing fun kind of things – then she is my type.”  Included in type was member or non-member; I dated (and baptized) a lot of non-member ladies, dated a few with tattoos (when tattoos were a big social taboo), some with problems and issues that no one else would date and fellowship, some molly Mormons and some off the chart wonderful ladies that broke my heart.

 

3. Do not ever think of dating as settling for what you can or want to get.  Learn to have fun with just about anybody.  Love is a lousy and bad reason to marry someone or a reason to date someone – despite the Hollywood propaganda.  The truth is that you can learn to love anybody and just about everybody.  You should be able to love and respect everybody for who they are - that you meet and especially anybody you date.  I honestly believe if you cannot fall in love with somebody – it is your problem and mistake not something a miss with them!

 

4. Learn to be governed by what is right to do and not by what you want to do.  Go on a mission because it is the right thing for you to do – not necessarily what you think you want to do at the moment.  In fact, I believe a great lesson of life is learning to want to do what you know is right not trying to figure out how to make what you want to do the right thing in your mind and heart.

Edited by Traveler
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2. You should not consider only dating the perfect or soul mate.  I am not talking about charity dates – just getting to know others and have a great fun time with them.  I do not believe in “type”.  Sometimes friends would say of a lady – she is not your type.  I would say, “Is she the type that will wear a dress and like to hold a guy’s hand, smile, laugh and enjoy doing fun kind of things – then she is my type.”  Included in type was member or non-member; I dated (and baptized) a lot of non-member ladies, dated a few with tattoos (when tattoos were a big social taboo), some with problems and issues that no one else would date and fellowship, some molly Mormons and some off the chart wonderful ladies that broke my heart.

 

I agree with the type (mostly) and soul-mate ideas. I don't agree (and neither does the church by way of teachings in the past that I am familiar with) that dating anyone is acceptable as long as they're friendly. Regardless of intent, we marry who we date. We should not be dating people who do not have the standards we would marry. Our "type" should be those who we would marry, per point 4 of your post. Otherwise, I agree.

 

4. Learn to be governed by what is right to do and not by what you want to do.  Go on a mission because it is the right thing for you to do – not necessarily what you think you want to do at the moment.  In fact, I believe a great lesson of life is learning to want to do what you know is right not trying to figure out how to make what you want to do the right thing in your mind and heart.

 

Lest you think I never do anything but argue with you...

 

Amen!

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I have differing opinions – from my own life; my wife was the third girl I dated more than twice in a row.  I dated a lot – and won a bet with friends to kiss 50 different dates first in high school and tied a contest in college for most different dates in a day – 6.  I was 26 when I finely married.  I do not remember the names of most of the girls I dated and to be honest there are a lot of ladies that I dated that I have forgotten.

 

I find this a bit disturbing. I'm not wishing to be critical of you per se, but your perspective is a leap and a jump from the reality of people who rarely get the opportunity to date. Perhaps for the young gentleman OP, he doesn't have the looks and personality, or money, that lets him approach and date and kiss 50 girls, or 6 dates in a day. Maybe this girl is the only girl who ever gave him the time of day. He didn't even actually say he was dating her. Maybe he just has a thing for her and doesn't want to lose the only good thing going right now.

 

I also find the term "charity date" extremely offensive. The concept is offensive. Is this a Utah Corridor thing, cause if it is, it's twisted. I raised a disabled son and dates were hard to come by. Yes girls from church went out with him once, and he loved the attention, but it only hurt when they went away the next day. A charity date is no date at all.

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You missed one:  "too much of a good thing" doesn't apply to kissing pretty ladies when you're single.   ;)

 

 

 

 

President Spencer W. Kimball stated, “Kissing has … degenerated to develop and express lust instead of affection, honor, and admiration. To kiss in casual dating is asking for trouble. What do kisses mean when handed out like pretzels and robbed of sacredness?” (The Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, 281).
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I had my first date at 18.  Second date at 19.  Third date at 21.  If my wife and I hadn't worked together, I would have never been able to develop a relationship until such time as I earned enough money to afford a date, car, and eventually college.

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My counsel:

 

1. Read D&C 132 about the principles of a temple sealing. Do any of these blessings motivate you?

  • You are promised that, if faithful, your relationship with your spouse is recognized by God and will continue into the eternities. You and your wife will be "together forever" as the hymn phrases it.
  • You will continue to experience the joys of fatherhood into the eternities where you will "have an increase".
  • You become an heir to the blessings of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. At baptism you were "adopted in" (if you weren't a natural descendant); when you received your patriarchal blessing your lineage was declared; when you are sealed in the temple you are promised a patriarchal inheritance.

 

2. Go on a mission and meet with part-member families. See how their children and grandchildren view the Church and the gospel. Weigh these experiences in mind when you return to the world of dating.

 

3. Read my signature.

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Isn't it better for an LDS Man to marry a nonmember than to remain single??

 

Not necessarily.  Marriage is supposed to bring you closer to Christ.  If the nonmember inspires and brings you to do so, then it's good.  If the nonmember inspires and brings you to do the opposite, then it's not good.

 

But... in any case... the OP is 18.  Lots of growing up to do still.

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You don't need an internet forum.  The answers to all your questions are in the D&C 131 and 132.

 

Personally I wouldn't marry a non-member.  But your choices are yours, you are free to follow your own path.

 

Also, I wouldn't bother serving a mission without reading though the D&C at least once beforehand.  Missionaries have some responsibility to know the gospel.   If I recall, temple marriage was part of the missionary discussions back in the 90's.  Got to know your stuff.

Edited by garryw
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Not necessarily.  Marriage is supposed to bring you closer to Christ.  If the nonmember inspires and brings you to do so, then it's good.  If the nonmember inspires and brings you to do the opposite, then it's not good.

 

The same could be said of members.

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  • 4 weeks later...

OP here. I'm not planning on proposing anytime soon. Not even looking to get married until about 23 to 25. I know most of my stuff, and we're studying D&C in seminary this year. I'm just curious about part member families. I know of great, faithful people in my ward who did not have temple marriages. Will they miss out on all the blessings? Will they have an opportunity to marry a faithful member in the hereafter? Isaiah 4 says that there will be a day when many women will desperately want to marry a worthy man, and few will be around. Unless the Lord enacts the law of polygamy again, how is that going to work out? Am I, along with other male members, required to marry a member? Or just a worthy spouse, as has been mentioned by previous posts.

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So. I am an 18 year old male, finishing up high school and about to serve a mission this summer, but there's this girl that I really, reeeally like. This girl, however, is a nonmember. My parents are very.....Mormon (?) I guess, (not that I'm not), and they only want me to marry a girl in the temple. This girl has been exposed to the church and we've talked a lot about it, but she's not interested in joining. I heard that temple marriage is a requirement to be in the celestial kingdom, and that was a downer, to put it lightly. I really want to be there, of course. I know of other faithful members who did not have temple marriages. Any ideas on what's going to happen? This is all assuming that we do get married after my mission and survive college. It's a possibility. True to the Faith says that there are three degrees within the celestial kingdom, and that temple marriage is required only for the highest degree. Is there common speculation or doctrine? Thanks!

temple marriage is required for the highest degree in the celestial kingdom comes from the doctrine and covenants.

IF you do not have a valid temple marriage by the time the final judgement occurs you will not be able achieve the highest degree in the celestial kingdom. You may still be able to enter the celestial kingdom without one, but how far you can go I do not know, but it certainly won't be the highest that you can go.

DC 131:

 In the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees;

 And in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order of the priesthood [meaning the new and everlasting covenant of marriage];

 And if he does not, he cannot obtain it.

 He may enter into the other, but that is the end of his kingdom; he cannot have an increase.

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OP here. I'm not planning on proposing anytime soon. Not even looking to get married until about 23 to 25. I know most of my stuff, and we're studying D&C in seminary this year. I'm just curious about part member families. I know of great, faithful people in my ward who did not have temple marriages. Will they miss out on all the blessings? Will they have an opportunity to marry a faithful member in the hereafter? Isaiah 4 says that there will be a day when many women will desperately want to marry a worthy man, and few will be around. Unless the Lord enacts the law of polygamy again, how is that going to work out? Am I, along with other male members, required to marry a member? Or just a worthy spouse, as has been mentioned by previous posts.

those who missed out because they did not have the opportunity are covered or going to be covered through the temple ordinances by proxy- this is why temple work is pushed so much in the church. You only go once for yourself for each ordinance, after that it is to provide an opportunity for someone who has passed on that has not had that opportunity.

Now for those who knowingly reject whatever part of it, I would not bank on getting any second chances.

As for polygamy- as far as I know it's only been discontinued for this side of life, on this world, at the moment. We have no word whether God will command it again on this world..... But I wouldn't be surprised if it did happen again.

As for part member families- in the world to come we know that individuals from higher kingdoms can visit lower kingdoms, but not vice versa (supposing individuals don't repent).

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The same could be said of members.

Of course. But a member is bound by covenant and will have certain privileges (like temple worthiness) if he takes his membership seriously. A non-member, even those who bring you closer to Christ, still has to be convinced to make that covenant so you can progress as an Eternal Family in mortality.

But yes, it's not advisable to marry any random member. Marriage is very important in one's life - it needs careful deliberation.

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