Are LDS as 'judgmental' as Evangelicals are? Maybe you should be!


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I published this on my social media page, and got to thinking that everything I said would likely get an 'Amen' from my LDS friends.  Read it and see if you agree.

 

 

CHRISTIANS ARE JUDGMENTAL

 

It is not that we mean to be. Usually we are minding our own business. Out of the blue, a co-worker, friend, sometimes even a family member, will quip, "Why do you Christians judge so much? You're always making people feel guilty?" A trigger response we give--certainly in today's post-modern milieu--is to say, "Oh, no! You misunderstand. I am not judging YOU. After all, we are all sinner's, saved by grace! [i even got a bumper sticker to prove it!] Everyone comes to God with some "stuff." We ask him to forgive us, and we are made right with him. Hey, I still struggle with my stuff, so please don't think me judgmental. The pastor in me might even go a step further, and ask the questioner if I could pray with him or her, so peace would come--comfort, and wellness.

 

Judgment is a very close cousin to bigotry. Some of my fellow Christians are so loathe to appear hateful that they will know longer name sins. At least one famous TV minister has declared that naming and calling out sin is not his calling. God has called him to lift up and build up, not tear down and destroy, you see.

 

Ironically, in my 40+ years as a Christian, I have seldom heard a sermon that parked on sins and sinning. There are a few outliers that find fulfillment in declaring God's judgment is at hand, waving big signs, and yelling condemnations at by-passers. These guys are caricatures, though. Christians cringe, and skeptics laugh.

 

So, why the title? Christians carry the presence of God. Many of us openly say we are Spirit-filled. Further, we believe that the Holy Spirit will bring conviction--guilt. Is it so strange then, when people respond to our proximity with a seemingly impromptu, "Why are you Christians so judgmental?" Might not the underlying cause be God-given guilt? If it is true that all have sinned, then could it not also be that the person feels guilty because s/he is guilty, before God?

 

It's a crucial moment. We Christians dare not squander it by downplaying what the Holy Spirit is doing. Prayerfully, we ought to approach such instances with not one ounce of defensiveness. The accusation is not against us, but God. Can you imagine asking God why He is so judgmental? Would He not double-down, and respond, "Repent?" So, a more appropriate response might be, "You do not have to answer to me. Only God is the ultimate judge. So, whatever you are feeling, He is the one we all must answer to."

 

How we finesse such an answer will depend on our personality, our communication style, and on how God leads us. Humility (I had to repent too), and confidence (this is God's work) will under gird us. Regardless, let us not quench the judging work of God, nor downplay his call to repentance.

Edited by prisonchaplain
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Oh definitely! Something I'm working on is seeing righteous judgment (the things and people that affect me directly so I know how I need to deal with them) vs. sanctimonious judgment (essentially pride, or that person is worse than me because of x). The last years have given me a swift kick in the behind, and if I've learned anything, it's that I can't really know what a person is going through. I can bear my testimony of true principles, or guide when they are open to it (and/or ask), but preaching at someone from an ivory tower is totally counterproductive. 

 

 

I like this line a lot, and it's definitely worth some pondering:

 

 

 

Humility (I had to repent too), and confidence (this is God's work) will under gird us.
Edited by Eowyn
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This is from my own experience, take it as you will.

 

I pretty much grew up in the LDS Church. Both my parents are obedient followers and many of my siblings are. I've been active and inactive on and off, but officially resigned at the beginning of the new year, and I am feeling the difference. I'm not so quick to refer to myself as an atheist but I currently do not believe there is a god or gods. The idea that there might be something greater out there, though, is something I'm open to. Anyway, this new outlook on life has made me more aware of my Mormon friends and Christian friends in general. I used to not mind so much when people would post on my Facebook religious or spiritual memes, but now, it's kind of annoying and even a bit offensive, especially since I have "come out" about my religious status. From time to time, I'll get religious friends raising a brow when I share my views on social issues, and while some have the decency to respect my opinion, others are quick to point out that it is not god's way. (They forget I do not believe in god or gods.)

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Humans are by nature judgmental.  In fact to recognize a particular segment of humans as being more or less judgmental is in itself judgmental.  The sorry truth is that it is impossible to have a discussion about being judgmental without being judgmental. 

 

Now I will go out even further on a limb of judgment with the judgmental statement that I believe the one of the most misunderstood doctrines of Christ is the doctrine to judge not.  Here is the problem - if you do not agree with me; that it is a misunderstood doctrine - you can only do so by contradicting your own belief to judge not.  That alone is rhetorical proof that you do not know or understand to any degree of intelligent possibility to be able to live or apply such a convoluted doctrine.  I honestly believe from what I seem to understand that if Jesus taught to not judge as many interpret this to mean; then Jesus made such a rhetorical error that he could not be who he or many others claim he was.

 

As the master teacher, Jesus Christ, employs sound rhetorical logic and empirical logic more than any other religious teacher I have ever encountered.  For Jesus to have been so consistent across so many other logical platforms and to suddenly reverse his methods and purpose for a single doctrine convinces me that Jesus is teaching something that few seem to understand.  And the problem is that if you do not agree with me it can only be because you personally have violated your own understanding of not being judgmental.  In short the more right you think you are the more you are disobedient of what you think Jesus ask of you.  Good luck with that.

 

The destiny of man is to draw near to G-d by understanding his word and teachings.  Our destiny is not to confuse ourselves and become lost from any hope of understanding and making application to what we learn.  There is no other doctrine more corrupted by men than what Jesus was trying to communicate when he taught what has come to us translated and interpreted in modern times as "Judge Not".

Edited by Traveler
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 Anyway, this new outlook on life has made me more aware of my Mormon friends and Christian friends in general. I used to not mind so much when people would post on my Facebook religious or spiritual memes, but now, it's kind of annoying and even a bit offensive, especially since I have "come out" about my religious status. From time to time, I'll get religious friends raising a brow when I share my views on social issues, and while some have the decency to respect my opinion, others are quick to point out that it is not god's way. (They forget I do not believe in god or gods.)

 

When I lived in Korea I never took offense at finding out that people were Buddhist, or just believed in themselves.  One young lady was hesitant to talk about her religious beliefs, but finally confided that she followed what we might call Animism.  To ask what one's religion was in that culture was like asking what one's favorite color was.  There was no offense in the question, and no great awkwardness when the answer was something different.  As a teacher I could occasionally refer to examples from the Bible, and would have taken no offense of a student had mentioned something from Buddhist writings.

 

Our culture has become quite weak.  We become defensive, and find so many things to be offensive that, objectively, are just different.  I admit that we Christians are just as guilty?  What?  You're pro-choice?  How can you call yourself...oops, I mean...well, anyway ... wow. 

 

I still say the answer is to be direct about who we are, and what we believe, but to offer ourselves with "humble confidence."  Those who reject us would have done so eventually anyway.

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When I lived in Korea I never took offense at finding out that people were Buddhist, or just believed in themselves.  One young lady was hesitant to talk about her religious beliefs, but finally confided that she followed what we might call Animism.  To ask what one's religion was in that culture was like asking what one's favorite color was.  There was no offense in the question, and no great awkwardness when the answer was something different.  As a teacher I could occasionally refer to examples from the Bible, and would have taken no offense of a student had mentioned something from Buddhist writings.

 

Our culture has become quite weak.  We become defensive, and find so many things to be offensive that, objectively, are just different.  I admit that we Christians are just as guilty?  What?  You're pro-choice?  How can you call yourself...oops, I mean...well, anyway ... wow. 

 

I still say the answer is to be direct about who we are, and what we believe, but to offer ourselves with "humble confidence."  Those who reject us would have done so eventually anyway.

 

I think when I have openly told people that I am no longer Mormon or Christian, for that matter, and they go out of their way to send me stuff that is the complete opposite of what I believe - that is rude.

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I think when I have openly told people that I am no longer Mormon or Christian, for that matter, and they go out of their way to send me stuff that is the complete opposite of what I believe - that is rude.

 

 

Hmmmmmmmm some of the most Christian and "Mormon" people I know do not call themselves so.  What then is more hypocritical; those that call themselves Christians and do not act so or those that do not call themselves Christians and act with such love and kindness that it is impossible for me to think of them as otherwise?

Edited by Traveler
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What most perceive as judgement is simply a difference in the type and strength of ones principles and standards. To an individual who simply has none they are pretty foreign and uncomfortable. To a person who has different principles and standards they also sound strange.  What is strange to me is how someone can denounce another for making a judgement but consider him/herself non-judgmental. 

 

All of us choose our own compass and choose how much we heed it. 

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I think when I have openly told people that I am no longer Mormon or Christian, for that matter, and they go out of their way to send me stuff that is the complete opposite of what I believe - that is rude.

 

It could be.  Depends on the relationship.  In one built on trust, it might be a conversation starter.  If someone sent me an honest inquiry, for example, about the Crusades, and the 200,000 killed during the 9 declared 'wars,' I could take it as a slam against my faith, or an opportunity to discuss religion's role in history.  Was the person mocking me, challenging me (intellectually), or just being thoughtless?

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Mormons can be just as judgmental if not more so than Christians in general. When it comes to fast and testimony meeting, we Mormons like to get up and tell each other just how blessed we are to have the truth unlike everybody else (we have a living prophet, restored gospel, etc). We can be just like the Zoramites who stood up on their rameumptom to thank God that they were not like everybody else. Not all Mormons are like this but they are definitely out there. 

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Mormons can be just as judgmental if not more so than Christians in general. When it comes to fast and testimony meeting, we Mormons like to get up and tell each other just how blessed we are to have the truth unlike everybody else (we have a living prophet, restored gospel, etc).

Not sure I understand your complaint. Is there anything untrue about what you just accused Mormons of saying?

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i grew up in a LDS home, my mom was the spiritual anchor of the home.

 

my dad was the most laid back person i knew, he never scolded us of any actions while growing up (outside of the typical doing chores and stuff), he never judged me or told me what not to do as a priesthood holder. He is still the same way to this day and I am glad that he lives just a few towns over and I get to see him quite often.

 

my mom was always telling us what we should not be doing, we always felt like we were under a microscope with my mom it was sometimes overbearing. She is still the same way all these many years later and I am glad that I live over 1000 miles from her.

 

I have recently learned that my dad had many skeletons in his closet, over the course of his lifetime he was always struggling with sin and addictions. I now know why he never judged me and my brothers.

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Guest MormonGator

99.9% of LDS members are great and accepting, but once in a while you'll see one who judges on appearance only. I tell them that my priesthood is the same as theirs-so let the long hair, earrings and tattoos go. In fact, I can reach a different kind of audience that is just as much Gods children as anyone else. 

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I think when I have openly told people that I am no longer Mormon or Christian, for that matter, and they go out of their way to send me stuff that is the complete opposite of what I believe - that is rude.

I have family that purposefully go out of their way and send me stuff that is the complete opposite of what I believe. It's a bit misguided, but they mean well enough.

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Our culture has become quite weak.  We become defensive, and find so many things to be offensive that, objectively, are just different.  I admit that we Christians are just as guilty?  What?  You're pro-choice?  How can you call yourself...oops, I mean...well, anyway ... wow. 

 

I still say the answer is to be direct about who we are, and what we believe, but to offer ourselves with "humble confidence."  Those who reject us would have done so eventually anyway.

 

I concur, weak, vapid and overreacting. 

 

I think when I have openly told people that I am no longer Mormon or Christian, for that matter, and they go out of their way to send me stuff that is the complete opposite of what I believe - that is rude.

 

I don't understand . . . I guess if they are sending things in a nasty way stteo "you dolt, don't you know blah, blah, blah", then sure they are being rude.  But if they are sending it in a polite way, maybe they feel that you would benefit from xyz and are trying to help.  Sure, their help isn't wanted or needed. . . but is that really rude?

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I'm answering PC. It wasn't a complaint. Just an observation over the years in wards that I have lived in. I don't understand the question. Please reword. If it helps, I did say "not all Mormons..."

 

I'm just trying to understand what is "judgmental" about Mormons "get[ting] up and tell[ing] each other just how blessed we are to have the truth unlike everybody else (we have a living prophet, restored gospel, etc)." I mean, isn't all that stuff true? And aren't we blessed to have it?

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Ah, I understand. To be quick (past my bedtime), we can judge ourselves to be righteous or better than others. I have seen self righteous attitudes. As for me, all I can think of is, "forgive me, Lord, a sinner." Yes, we are blessed, but these blessins aren't bragging rights, which is what I have seen sometimes. I hope that clears it up a bit more. 

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I don't understand . . . I guess if they are sending things in a nasty way stteo "you dolt, don't you know blah, blah, blah", then sure they are being rude.  But if they are sending it in a polite way, maybe they feel that you would benefit from xyz and are trying to help.  Sure, their help isn't wanted or needed. . . but is that really rude?

 

Two things come to mind:

 

1) If she's expressed that she doesn't wish to discuss certain topics on her social media, email, or what have you and people who are aware of such keep bringing the issue up then it's generally regarded as rude be the topic god or The Hobbit.

 

2) Phrasing of messages can be a lot more subtle than straight up calling someone a dolt. For an example, talking to a believer in god about their 'delusion' is part of a disrespectful tone even though it's not straight up calling them a dolt. 

 

That said, sometimes when we make transitions (I'm speaking generically) in life it prompts people to comment and if we're talking social media (or we have a wide social circle) it can feel like a coordinated assault and we lose track over who we've had conversations with explaining that we don't wish to discuss the topic or the rude comments of one portion of the people we know subconsciously taint the innocent and well meaning comments of the rest.

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Mormons are Christians.

 

Commonly heard in my 17 years of chaplaincy:

 

Esta Cristiano?  (Are you Christian?)

 

No, no!  Estoy Catolica!  (No, no!  I'm Catholic.)

 

Yes, the priest would correct them.  Nevertheless, even the first organized denomination of Christianity falls into the thinking that Protestants (and especially Evangelicals) now 'own' the Christian brand.

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Yes, the priest would correct them.  Nevertheless, even the first organized denomination of Christianity falls into the thinking that Protestants (and especially Evangelicals) now 'own' the Christian brand.

 

I think more than a few LDS, catholic, and other non-protestant denominations could express their irritation at the "branding".  But that's probably a different rant for a different day....

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Commonly heard in my 17 years of chaplaincy:

 

Esta Cristiano?  (Are you Christian?)

 

No, no!  Estoy Catolica!  (No, no!  I'm Catholic.)

 

Yes, the priest would correct them.  Nevertheless, even the first organized denomination of Christianity falls into the thinking that Protestants (and especially Evangelicals) now 'own' the Christian brand.

 

I just wanted to clarify.  :)

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I always think about Abinidi when this subject of judgement is being discussed.  Abinidi warns the citizens of the city Nephi-Lehi that their current state of wickedness has earned them the displeasure of God and that negative consequences will result if they don't repent and turn back to God.  The first time he tells the people this they react with anger and take offense.  When the king (Noah) gets word of what Abinidi was saying he reacts this way: Mosiah 11:27

 

 27 Now when king Noah had heard of the words which Abinadi had spoken unto the people, he was also wroth; and he said: Who is Abinadi, that I and my people should be judged of him, or who is the Lord, that shall bring upon my people such great affliction?

 

Or in other words: What gives him the right to be so judgmental?

 

2 years later Abinidi returns to try again. (employing a disguise to get into the city since these people want to kill him after the first attempt.  Of course the first words recorded are him announcing he's Abinidi so... not a man of stealth.)

 

He delivers the same message as before except much more urgently.  The people in response arrest Abinidi and take him to King Noah.  The ordinary, everyday, people are doing this.  In fact if it weren't for these people or Noah's priests Abinidi probably wouldn't have been martyred, as is what happened.  But the people again say an interesting thing when protesting Abinidi before King Noah.  Mosiah 12:13-14

 

 13 And now, O king, what great evil hast thou done, or what great sins have thy people committed, that we should be condemned of God or judged of this man?

 14 And now, O king, behold, we are guiltless, and thou, O king, hast not sinned; therefore, this man has lied concerning you, and he has prophesied in vain.

 

 

Again, Abinidi is being judgmental of us.  He doesn't really know us.  We're good people.

 

Well was Abinidi being judgmental in calling out the wicked behaviour of this King and the citizens of the city?  As an LDS person I would say no because I believe Abinidi to be a prophet who was commanded by the God who loves these people to call them to repentance.  Someone else might agree with the opinion of the people and say Abinidi had no right to call them to repentance.  "People are allowed to believe whatever they like and Abinidi has no business to tell them what's right or wrong.", some might argue.  That's how it goes today and that's apparently nothing new. 

 

Seems to me the difference between a person being judgmental or not can very much be in the perspective of the recipient. 

 

In the case of Abinidi the people were so offended that they burned him alive. Between King Noah and Abinidi it was Abinidi who was on the people's side and had their best interests in mind, and they killed him for it.

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