Reaction to Pres. Uchtdorf's GC talk

[MrShorty]

I have said here before that I believe LDS theology lends itself very well to a "by grace alone" philosophy, if we can decouple it from the "by faith alone" pillar of Protestantism. I really liked Pres. Uchtdorf's talk this last general conference about grace: https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2015/04/the-gift-of-grace?lang=eng

I would be interested in Protestant/Evangelical reaction to this talk. Does Pres. Uchtdorf's thoughts and beliefs about grace seem to agree with what you have been taught that Mormon's believe about grace, or does it clash with what you thought we believe? How does Pres. Uchtdorf's view of grace compare and contrast to your own beliefs about grace? Other reactions?

[Guest]

I think first we have to understand what we mean by grace. For LDS people, it is the enabling power of the Atonement, given through Jesus, to allow us to do and be more than that which we are capable of on our own merits. 

 

What is grace to Protestants/Evangelicals?

[Jane_Doe]

I think first we have to understand what we mean by grace. For LDS people, it is the enabling power of the Atonement, given through Jesus, to allow us to do and be more than that which we are capable of on our own merits. 

 

What is grace to Protestants/Evangelicals?

 

More than asking that to the category of Protestant/Evangelicals, I would say what does "grace" mean specifically to *you*?  (You being the question answer-er) 

Edited April 8, 2015 by Jane_Doe

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

More than asking that to the category of Protestant/Evangelicals, I would say what does "grace" mean specifically to *you*?  (You being the question answer-er) 

 

 

I agree. I think that Pres. Uchtdorf's wonderful talk about grace was a departure from what many LDS previously believed . . . 

I remember years ago reading a similar talk by Brad Wilcox, and being pleasantly surprised and validated.  I thought it was something like that, but that is not what I understood from church classes and seminary.  Unbeknowst to me, my prospective missionary son recently became interested in this topic and with much study came to the same conclusions that Pres. Uchtdorf discussed.  For him it was a change from his previous understanding of the topic.  

 

So I'm curious if anyone else's view was changed, or their understanding made more clear by this wonderful talk.  I would have said yes, if I had not already hear similar ideas from Brad Wilcox.  

http://www.byutv.org/watch/49475abb-10d4-4f45-a757-7000b9945468/byu-devotional-address-brad-wilcox-71211

Edited April 9, 2015 by LiterateParakeet

[Irishcolleen]

Grace to an Evangelical Christian is God's unmerited favor. Eph.2:8-9 says we are saved by grace through faith. Uctfdorf's definition seems sound from the outside.  It may not be the definition of grace that separates our beliefs, but rather the definition of "saved", "salvation", and "born-again", "eternal life" and the "atonement."

Edited April 9, 2015 by Irishcolleen

[Jane_Doe]

(Ok, I’m not an evangelical or protestant, but wanted to say something on this awesome talk),

 

Reading the talk closely, I am very happy to see this topic so well addressed-- we Mormons often lag behind on our understanding of grace.  Granted, even if we don’t use the actual word “grace”, it does penetrate deep into our theology…. I think part of our traditional hesitance against using the word “grace” is to differentiate ourselves from the solo-grace-faith camps of Christianity.

 

Uchtdorf’s talk fabulously about grace, but he also stresses how this should change us and doing things: merging the two together.  Couple of quotes:

 

“If salvation means only erasing our mistakes and sins, then salvation—as wonderful as it is—does not fulfill the Father’s aspirations for us. His aim is much higher: He wants His sons and daughters to become like Him.”

 

“God pours out blessings of power and strength, enabling us to achieve things that otherwise would be far beyond our reach”

 

“Therefore, our obedience to God’s commandments comes as a natural outgrowth of our endless love and gratitude for the goodness of God. This form of genuine love and gratitude will miraculously merge our works with God’s grace.”

[Maureen]

...I would be interested in Protestant/Evangelical reaction to this talk. Does Pres. Uchtdorf's thoughts and beliefs about grace seem to agree with what you have been taught that Mormon's believe about grace, or does it clash with what you thought we believe? How does Pres. Uchtdorf's view of grace compare and contrast to your own beliefs about grace? Other reactions?

 

These are the things that I agree with from President's Uchtdorf's talk.

 

The Savior’s Atonement cannot become commonplace in our teaching, in our conversation, or in our hearts. It is sacred and holy, for it was through this “great and last sacrifice” that Jesus the Christ brought “salvation to all those who shall believe on his name.”⁶

 

I marvel to think that the Son of God would condescend to save us, as imperfect, impure, mistake-prone, and ungrateful as we often are. I have tried to understand the Savior’s Atonement with my finite mind, and the only explanation I can come up with is this: God loves us deeply, perfectly, and everlastingly. I cannot even begin to estimate “the breadth, and length, and depth, and height … [of] the love of Christ.”⁷

 

Because we have all “sinned, and come short of the glory of God”¹⁰ and because “there cannot any unclean thing enter into the kingdom of God,”¹¹ every one of us is unworthy to return to God’s presence.

Even if we were to serve God with our whole souls, it is not enough, for we would still be “unprofitable servants.”¹² We cannot earn our way into heaven; the demands of justice stand as a barrier, which we are powerless to overcome on our own.

 

But all is not lost.

 

The grace of God is our great and everlasting hope.

 

Through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, the plan of mercy appeases the demands of justice¹³ “and [brings] about means unto men that they may have faith unto repentance.”¹⁴

 

Our sins, though they may be as scarlet, can become white as snow.¹⁵ Because our beloved Savior “gave himself a ransom for all,”¹⁶ an entrance into His everlasting kingdom is provided unto us.¹⁷

 

To inherit this glory, we need more than an unlocked gate; we must enter through this gate with a heart’s desire to be changed—a change so dramatic that the scriptures describe it as being “born again; yea, born of God, changed from [our worldly] and fallen state, to a state of righteousness, being redeemed of God, becoming his sons and daughters.”21

 

Another element of God’s grace is the opening of the windows of heaven, through which God pours out blessings of power and strength, enabling us to achieve things that otherwise would be far beyond our reach. It is by God’s amazing grace that His children can overcome the undercurrents and quicksands of the deceiver, rise above sin, and “be perfect[ed] in Christ.”²²

 

Though we all have weaknesses, we can overcome them. Indeed it is by the grace of God that, if we humble ourselves and have faith, weak things can become strong.²³

 

Throughout our lives, God’s grace bestows temporal blessings and spiritual gifts that magnify our abilities and enrich our lives. His grace refines us. His grace helps us become our best selves.

 

Salvation cannot be bought with the currency of obedience; it is purchased by the blood of the Son of God.²⁶

Brothers and sisters, we obey the commandments of God—out of love for Him!

 

Trying to understand God’s gift of grace with all our heart and mind gives us all the more reasons to love and obey our Heavenly Father with meekness and gratitude. As we walk the path of discipleship, it refines us, it improves us, it helps us to become more like Him, and it leads us back to His presence. “The Spirit of the Lord [our God]” brings about such “a mighty change in us, … that we have no more disposition to do evil, but to do good continually.”²⁸

 

Therefore, our obedience to God’s commandments comes as a natural outgrowth of our endless love and gratitude for the goodness of God. This form of genuine love and gratitude will miraculously merge our works with God’s grace. Virtue will garnish our thoughts unceasingly, and our confidence will wax strong in the presence of God.²⁹

 

Dear brothers and sisters, living the gospel faithfully is not a burden. It is a joyful rehearsal—a preparation for inheriting the grand glory of the eternities. We seek to obey our Heavenly Father because our spirits will become more attuned to spiritual things. Vistas are opened that we never knew existed. Enlightenment and understanding come to us when we do the will of the Father.³⁰

 

M.

Edited April 12, 2015 by Maureen

[skalenfehl]

This is worth sharing.

 

[blueskye]

Does he avoid saying the word "cross"?

[Jane_Doe]

Does he avoid saying the word "cross"?

 Not that I noticed...

 

In a slightly disjointed thought from that, LDS culture typically doesn't use the word "cross" as much as evangelicals (just as one example faith).  Typically LDS talk more about "the atonement" or "Christ's sacrifice".  It's not that the word "cross" is bad, but more 1) an acknowledgment of Christ's life and purpose beyond the just physically being on the cross (like the garden resurrection), and 2) Mormon culture shies away from very gruesome bloody crucifix images.  

 

All of the above is 100% culture, not doctrine.  

Edited April 18, 2015 by Jane_Doe