Food for Thought


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One of mankind’s most significant achievements has been moving forward with fanfare – but from my vantage the fanfare is mostly for entertainment.   In the year 1990 the Hubble Telescope was launched into space to give mankind a new and more detailed view of the universe in which we were born.  It is my intention in this thread to show some pictures along with some of my ideas.  As a youth, when I first heard that the universe is expanding – I wondered and ponder the thought that the universe might be an intelligent and living entity. 

 

The old view was that space time is a 4 dimensional sphere in which galaxies float endlessly away from each other as the universe expands; all initiated a genesis of the “Big Bang”.  It was thought that the universe was expanding because of the Big Bang and that over time things are slowing down or unwinding.  It was and still believed that gravity is the force holding things together – that are somehow connected in our universe.  This idea of gravity and the vastness of space that define structures in rotation as the basis that galaxies were thought to be the largest possible construct of our universe.

 

In order to explain what you are about to see in pictures two forces have been added to account for what is going on.  The first I will mention is Dark Mater.  In order for Dark Matter to account for what we see there must be 4 times as much Dark Matter as the Matter we know of, see and deal with.  To account for the expansion or our universe – Dark Energy has been defined – and it has been calculated that there must be 5 times the accumulation of regular matter and Dark Matter to account for Dark Energy.

 

The first two pictures are something for you to guess – just for fun.  One is what computer models have defined as the most updated structure of our universe.  The other is a picture of nerve tissue or cells of a living organism.  I will leave it up to the reader to guess which is which.

 

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The next picture is another computer generated picture.  This is a very new picture and is the results of many scientist gathering data related to the discovery that our Milky Way Galaxy as just a small part of a much large structure.  By definition scientist are calling the force that holds this structure together – “Dark Matter”.  The red dot is where in this structure our Milky Way Galaxy is located.

 

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This structure has been given a name – the Laniakea Super Cluster.   Laniakea is a Hawaiian word that means in essence “immeasurable heaven”.   Here is a question just for fun – If there is something intelligent that governs this structure – where do you think it is centered?  As it turns out – billions of what we once thought were distant stars in our sky are actually super clusters just like this.

 

This next picture is something that should be very familiar to you – it is a depiction of our Milky Way Galaxy at or near that red dot in the picture above.

 

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This is a galaxy in delicate balance with a super massive Black Hole – this is the largest structure that the universe can balance with a Black Hole.  And this galaxy is incredibly massive.  It is 100,000 light years across.  The ancients had no idea that G-d in all his might governed a larger universe than this galaxy all by itself.  I wonder what Moses was shown that prompted him to declare man is nothing. 

 

What are your thoughts?  Is this something to be interest in or something to be ignored and cast aside in favor of this “Necessary for salvation”?  Is all this an indication to you that G-d exists and if so do you think you have any idea what kind of intelligent being does this kind of thing – and also listens to your individual prayers?  Is there any message for you in what you are seeing?  Would you share with me your thoughts?

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well, given that there is no space in which there is not a kingdom whether sub-atomic or galactic and all are upheld by the light of Christ gives one pause to wonder. First I should state that I have issues with the "big bang" theory. Second, the electric or plasma universe (as far as I understand-which may not be saying much) seems to hold promise (to me) as in the comparison pictures of the universe and nerve tissue...especially if one allows their mind to ponder all the implications of Paul's (who had been caught up into the 3rd heaven) teachings about "the body of Christ". Perhaps that was what Moses was shown that prompted him to declare man is nothing.

 

 

The old "core accretion model" of the development of the solar system falls apart when used on different solar systems. Chaos Theory answers many problem "core accretion" couldn't. 

 

I just like that we're living on a so called "rogue planet"

 

Then again there are lots of folks busily working on the conjecture that the universe is a hologram...but I digress. :D

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 What are your thoughts?  Is this something to be interest in or something to be ignored and cast aside in favor of this “Necessary for salvation”?  Is all this an indication to you that G-d exists and if so do you think you have any idea what kind of intelligent being does this kind of thing – and also listens to your individual prayers?  Is there any message for you in what you are seeing?  Would you share with me your thoughts?

I'm intrigued by your thought that the universe itself might be "alive" ..

I've begun to wonder if Kolob is even a star in this universe. I also wonder if it's possible that the entire universe is the telestial realm in which we find ourselves. In other words, everything which we can "observe" around us ... Is it telestial ? If so, then would everything science can learn about be limited to telestial law?

All just speculations... In any event, the things we are able to learn and observe have great value to us here and now. How much those things might evolve and transform in the future..? Will be interesting to see...

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well, given that there is no space in which there is not a kingdom whether sub-atomic or galactic and all are upheld by the light of Christ gives one pause to wonder. First I should state that I have issues with the "big bang" theory. Second, the electric or plasma universe (as far as I understand-which may not be saying much) seems to hold promise (to me) as in the comparison pictures of the universe and nerve tissue...especially if one allows their mind to ponder all the implications of Paul's (who had been caught up into the 3rd heaven) teachings about "the body of Christ". Perhaps that was what Moses was shown that prompted him to declare man is nothing.

 

 

The old "core accretion model" of the development of the solar system falls apart when used on different solar systems. Chaos Theory answers many problem "core accretion" couldn't. 

 

I just like that we're living on a so called "rogue planet"

 

Then again there are lots of folks busily working on the conjecture that the universe is a hologram...but I digress. :D

 

A note about the "Big Bang" Theory - that has been under sedge for sometime.  The biggest obstacle in replacing the Big Bang is not the problems everyone has with it but what to replace it with that corresponds with what we are discovering.  Fractals, which are the mathematical foundation of Chaos Theory is playing an increasing roll in understanding but there just is not a cohesive rapper that can be applied.  My only point here is that criticizing the Big Band is not an achievement - what we need is a replacement - and no one seems to have one (including myself).

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I think that a fifth sub-gravity fundamental force acting over galactic and larger distances is a more likely candidate for reality than immense quantities of invisible "dark matter".

 

Obviously no one knows what dark matter is despite the concentrated effort to find some.  The reason that gravity is thought to be involved is because of the gravitational lensing (or its equivalent)  that has been measured.  What ever it is that maintains the supper cluster we now call Laniakea is in essence 4X the equivalent force of all the mass that comprises this super structure.  The other thing that is conveniently missing is that the entire structure of our Milky Way Galaxy is explained with the force of gravity based on the galaxy's mass.  In short there is no evidence internal to galaxies that the dark matter forces is contributing anything to what defines galaxies.  And when such force does effect a galaxy - though the galaxy is 100,000 thousand light years across - the structure of the galaxy is not effected but rather the entire galaxy is effected instantly across the whole of it - or so it seems.  For this reason - I have stated before that I believe it is possible and likely that we are looking directly at something divine and spiritual.  We are seeing the empirical results of the divine engine of creation that maintains and supports all that is physical.  That this force is perhaps even related to the sub atomic forces we call the weak and strong atomic forces.

 

What then is the core or common denominator of all forces acting on our universe?  I would like to propose - Light represented by the constant "C".  That we also find in scripture defined as intelligence.

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A note about the "Big Bang" Theory - that has been under sedge for sometime.  The biggest obstacle in replacing the Big Bang is not the problems everyone has with it but what to replace it with that corresponds with what we are discovering.  Fractals, which are the mathematical foundation of Chaos Theory is playing an increasing roll in understanding but there just is not a cohesive rapper that can be applied.  My only point here is that criticizing the Big Band is not an achievement - what we need is a replacement - and no one seems to have one (including myself).

 

To me using the Big Bang in a statement about science is like historians saying Columbus discovered America - forget the Phoenicians, Romans, Irish, Vikings. Jews, Chinese, etc..it just compounds a perception that's in error. Ask the average guy on the streets how did the universe form and you'll probably hear, "The Big Bang." not because the person knows its right or wrong but because it was drummed into their heads in school. If you want to pass the tests you put down "The Big Bang" and "Columbus discovered America" because that's what the text books say is right. In that sense the flat earth society is alive and well, and being spoon fed to the masses. And that irks me.

 

Do I have an answer? No. The Big Bang (errors and all) was the evolutionists' godsend (pun intended) since it drove a stake into Hoyle and co. "Steady State" universal model (errors and all) and Hoyle had no problems with making himself a pain to believers in evolution. 

 

Stephen Hawking once stated, "In order to understand the Origin of the universe, we need to combine the General Theory of Relativity with quantum theory. The best way of doing so seems to be to use Feynman's idea of a sum over histories." and continued later, "Despite having had some great successes, not everything is solved. We do not yet have a good theoretical understanding of the observations that the expansion of the universe is accelerating again, after a long period of slowing down. Without such an understanding, we cannot be sure of the future of the universe. Will it continue to expand forever? Is inflation a law of Nature? Or will the universe eventually collapse again?" (see source here).

 

As you said, "what we need is a replacement - and no one seems to have one (including myself)." To which I reply, perhaps we won't know God's methodology in creation of the universe until after the second coming. As revealed in the Doctrine and Covenants (D&C 101:32–34):

 

The Lord said He will “reveal all things—things which have passed, and hidden things which no man knew, things of the earth, by which it was made, and the purpose and the end thereof—things most precious, things that are above, and things that are beneath, things that are in the earth, and upon the earth, and in heaven.”

Edited by Average Joe
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I think the universe is expanding because Heavenly Father is continuing to create.  If our eternal destiny as His children is eternal increase/progression then it is logical that Heavenly Father is in a state of eternal increase/progression.  Why wouldn't He be continuing to create?  And the things He creates need somewhere to go.

 

As for things holding the universe together, I always think of this scripture:

 

D&C 131:7-8

 

 There is no such thing as immaterial matter. All spirit is matter, but it is more fine or pure, and can only be discerned by purer eyes;

 We cannot see it; but when our bodies are purified we shall see that it is all matter.

 

 

Dark Matter, if real, would be better called Light Matter.

 

 

I think if we had the eyes to see, those stunning photos of our universe would absolutely blow our minds.

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