Tree of Life


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Hey guys! Just wanted to get more direction on studying the tree of life.

So from what I gathered the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil in the garden is figurative. Adam and Eve partaking of the fruit is symbolic of them maybe doing something else to "fall". Is that correct? Well if THAT tree is fake or symbolic, then is the Tree of Life symbolic too? It doesn't seem like it. God actually put a flaming sword and stuff to protect it. If the tree represented something else then it wouldn't seem like God wouldn't need to guard it. But it seems like an actual fruit that would make Adam and Eve live forever if they ate it. "It must needs be that there was a forbidden fruit in opposition to the tree of life" 2 Ne. 2:15  Okay, opposition in all things right? Makes sense, but the forbidden fruit is symbolic, so what is the tree of life? Maybe I am just thinking too much into this, One represents sin, one represents love of God. But it seems like the Tree of Life is real because of certain scriptures like "If our first parents had partaken of the tree of life, they would have been forever miserable" Alma 12:26 Doing a quick search on LDS.org just pops up stuff on Lehi's vision and the tree representing the Love of God. But I am assuming that the tree in Lehi's dream is an altogether different tree bearing the same name. Any ideas or thoughts on this would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Edited by Saint Peter
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I don't believe Lehi's dream to be anything other than a lesson and nothing literal. 

 

As for the Garden of Eden, some will say it is literal and some say symbolic. I say it is both. I believe it exists spiritually and was physically manifested to Adam and Eve. It is spiritually hidden from us because of the fall. As for the tree, serpent, fruit, etc, the value is the same to us whether they are symbolic or not. Why would the lesson be any less meaningful? So why put so much thought into if they are real or not. The lesson is real.

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Tree of life.

A tree in the garden of Eden. The Bible does not indicate that it had inherent life-giving qualities in its fruit; instead, it represented God’s guarantee of everlasting life to those he would allow to eat of its fruit.—Ge 2:9; 3:22.

Tree of the knowledge of good and bad.

A tree in the garden of Eden that God used as a symbol of his right to set the standards for mankind as to what is “good” and what is “bad.”—Ge 2:9, 17.

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I am a proponent of understanding scripture through symbolism.   I also believe that the Latter-day saints have a great advantage – both because of modern revelation and the Gift of the Holy Ghost.  I believe that all things in scripture, in some way, relate to the Plan of Salvation.  Thus the “Tree of Life” is a symbolic representation to a particular part or parts of the Plan of Salvation.  The reason that symbolism is used, to my thinking, is so that as we learn we can understand more and continue to add to our understanding – never arriving (symbolically) but always continuing a great journey.

 

I believe that to best understand the symbolism of the Tree of Life one needs to understand the symbolism of the Cherubim.  The following is information that is provided in scripture and from language background concerning Cherubim:

 

  1. The term Cherubim is plural for Cherub which BTW is a Greek term that is not translated into any English word in scripture.  The ancient Greek understanding of the term Cherub is a kind or type of g-d not a type of angel as generally understood in Christian circles.

 

  1. In Biblical scriptures Cherubim always come in pares of two.  I submit that there are two Cherubim associated with the Tree of Life.

 

  1. Cherubim do not guard the Tree of Life – this is a mistake and misunderstanding of scripture.  The charge or purpose of the Cherubim is to “KEEP” the way or path to the Tree of Life.

 

  1. In a symbolic reference to a wicked earthly king (Suzerain or g-d type) Satan is identified both as one of the Cherubim and as “anointed”.  Note that the terms Messiah and Christ mean “anointed”.  Messiah being a Hebrew term and Christ being Latin or Greek.

 

  1. A very important symbolic reference to the two Cherubim in scripture is in reference to the “Arc of the Covenant” or “Mercy Seat”.  One Cherub occupies the left hand position to G-d and the other occupies the right hand position of G-d.  Since Satan is identified as a Cherub this is where the idea of Satan being the left hand of G-d – and the idea that those that follow Satan will be at the left hand of G-d.

 

  1. The scripture that identifies the Cherubim on the Arc are described in scripture.  The translation in English says that the Cherubim “face” each other.  An alternate reading that is never referenced (but has strong LDS application) is “the two brothers oppose each other”.

 

  1. As near as I have been able to determine – Jesus fulfills all the positive references to a Cherub.  For example Jesus says he is the “way” (keeper of the way to the Tree of Life), Jesus was seen by Stephen at the right hand of G-d and Jesus when he comes in glory (Revelation 19) comes with a flame of fire and sword.

 

I believe the Tree of Life is eternal life with G-d the Father and that the way or path to the Tree of Life is the atonement of Jesus the Christ – which makes Jesus the Keeper of the way.

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LONG before creating humans, God created many invisible spirit creatures—angels. In Eden, a rebellious angel, who came to be known as Satan the Devil, slyly endeavored to tempt Eve into eating the fruit of the one tree that God had ruled out.

Using a serpent, or snake, as a mouthpiece, Satan implied that God was withholding something desirable from the woman and her husband. The angel told Eve that she and her husband would not die if they ate the forbidden fruit. Satan thus accused God of lying to His human children. The Deceiver presented disobedience to God as an appealing course that would lead to enlightenment and freedom. But this was all a lie—in fact, the first lie ever spoken on earth. The real point at issue involved God’s sovereignty, or supreme rulership—whether God has the right to rule and whether he exercises it in a righteous way and in the best interests of his subjects.

Eve believed Satan’s lie. She began to desire the fruit, and then she actually ate some of it. Later she gave some to her husband, and he also ate it. Thus they became sinners. That seemingly simple act was actually an expression of rebellion. By deliberately choosing to disobey God’s command, Adam and Eve rejected the rule of the Creator who had given them everything, including perfect life.

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LONG before creating humans, God created many invisible spirit creatures—angels. In Eden, a rebellious angel, who came to be known as Satan the Devil, slyly endeavored to tempt Eve into eating the fruit of the one tree that God had ruled out.

Using a serpent, or snake, as a mouthpiece, Satan implied that God was withholding something desirable from the woman and her husband. The angel told Eve that she and her husband would not die if they ate the forbidden fruit. Satan thus accused God of lying to His human children. The Deceiver presented disobedience to God as an appealing course that would lead to enlightenment and freedom. But this was all a lie—in fact, the first lie ever spoken on earth. The real point at issue involved God’s sovereignty, or supreme rulership—whether God has the right to rule and whether he exercises it in a righteous way and in the best interests of his subjects.

Eve believed Satan’s lie. She began to desire the fruit, and then she actually ate some of it. Later she gave some to her husband, and he also ate it. Thus they became sinners. That seemingly simple act was actually an expression of rebellion. By deliberately choosing to disobey God’s command, Adam and Eve rejected the rule of the Creator who had given them everything, including perfect life.

 

I think you have several ancient symbols very mixed up.  Did you know that anciently that a serpent is symbolic of the Messiah or Christ?  Also you will have to explain to me how knowledge of Good and Evil is actually a issue of rebellion against G-d.  And I do not think you have any clue what the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil is.  I also do not think you actually understand that the fall of Adam was the plan of G-d - just as the Christ atoning for our sins was planned long before Adam ever took a breath in Eden.  Satan did not disrupt G-d's plan but was utilized by G-d and was as much a part of his plan as was his creation of the earth.

Edited by Traveler
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Hey guys! Just wanted to get more direction on studying the tree of life.

So from what I gathered the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil in the garden is figurative. Adam and Eve partaking of the fruit is symbolic of them maybe doing something else to "fall". Is that correct? Well if THAT tree is fake or symbolic, then is the Tree of Life symbolic too? It doesn't seem like it. God actually put a flaming sword and stuff to protect it. If the tree represented something else then it wouldn't seem like God wouldn't need to guard it. But it seems like an actual fruit that would make Adam and Eve live forever if they ate it. "It must needs be that there was a forbidden fruit in opposition to the tree of life" 2 Ne. 2:15  Okay, opposition in all things right? Makes sense, but the forbidden fruit is symbolic, so what is the tree of life? Maybe I am just thinking too much into this, One represents sin, one represents love of God. But it seems like the Tree of Life is real because of certain scriptures like "If our first parents had partaken of the tree of life, they would have been forever miserable" Alma 12:26 Doing a quick search on LDS.org just pops up stuff on Lehi's vision and the tree representing the Love of God. But I am assuming that the tree in Lehi's dream is an altogether different tree bearing the same name. Any ideas or thoughts on this would be appreciated.

Thanks.

many things that have symbolism come from something physical. I would not be surprised at all if it was both.

I'd say they represent what they are said to be - one knowledge, which would have to include the terrible things as well as the great things; sorrow, joy, life and death.

The other represented unending life, possibly even God's life.

Nephi explains well why God put a flaming sword on it only after Adam and eve partook of the tree of knowledge; had they done so they would have been permanently stuck in their fallen state, and would not have been able to progress.

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"Figurative" and "symbolic" do not mean "unreal" or "pretend".

 

Consider the sacrament. It is symbolic of Christ's sacrifice, which is a real thing. It is also symbolic of the meal we will eat with Christ when we sit down with him in his kingdom. Yet the sacrament is a real meal -- only a token meal, to be sure, but it involves real food and real drink. That it is symbolic of other, higher things does not make it any less real or literal.

 

I do not know the nature of the garden of Eden or of the trees therein. I am absolutely confident that Adam and Eve were real, literal people, and I feel pretty sure that the garden of Eden was an actual place or location of some sort. Were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil actual arboreal organisms? Were their fruits literally edible reproductive parts that grew off of them? When Eve partook of the fruit that had been forbidden her by the commandment of God, did she actually pick and eat a piece of fruit from off a tree?

 

I don't know. Maybe. But she did something, whether it was biting into a piece of fruit or some other action. Whatever actions the symbols represent, those symbols do represent something real, some actual occurrence. Personally, although I am curious, I am not too wrapped up in what the nature of "the forbidden fruit" was, or what exactly was Eve's actions that led to their fall and expulsion from their paradisiacal state. For now, it suffices me to know that it happened and that the consequences of that fall necessitate an atoning sacrifice.

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Wow, thanks a lot guys. I liked what you guys said. I think what I am missing is that it can be a combo of figurative and literal. I am definitely not stressed out over these things, but it is interesting to learn and understand the Plan as much as we can. I guess with a lot of these things everyone has their own opinion as they are hardly taught in conference these days. But thanks for shedding some light.

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Changed,

 

I am going to go out on a limb concerning the tree of life (pun intended).  Often the use of symbolism is for the purpose of multiple interpretation to be applied.  I find your reference to a connection between the Tree of Life and a "mother" in heaven intriguing but perhaps slightly off the mark.  Rather I would draw connection to the new and everlasting covenant - or the very essence of what is sometimes called "traditional" marriage - but only on the eternal scale as understood by LDS teaching. 

 

I have speculated that the title of G-d the Father includes a reference to eternal marriage as the covenant of a Man and a Woman.  The actual Hebrew term that we LDS reference concerning G-d the Father (Elohum) is a plural term and logic dictates that if there is a Father there is a Mother.  I believe even the title of G-d as the Suzerain of heaven or a divine kingdom includes not an individual but two acting as one - which is the true oneness.  Thus being one with G-d is not about an individual but the marriage of a man and a woman - to which there is no greater purpose. 

 

According to the Book of Enoch there was two great sins of mankind that required that the civilization of man that supported the two great sins to be destroyed.  The first was that man changed the order of marriage and the second was that children were conceived for carnal purposes.   This seems to be to be a rather vague reference to something, perhaps unmentionable.  However, I am not sure but that we are not so far from replicating that same error as a society during the final phase of the "Last Days".

 

So it would seem to me that anyone that thought that the Tree of Life had any symbolic reference to a mother in heaven - they are at best half right.

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....

 

I am still pondering your idea that cherubim's' “KEEP” the way to the Tree of Life, I'm going to have to figure these cherubims out!

 

May I suggest the final verse in Genesis chapter 3 and Moses Chapter 4.

 

One point I find most peculiar concerning the Cherubim (note that adding the "s" at the end is improper grammar) is in a passage of scripture you have already quoted in Hebrews chapter 9 - in particular verse 4.  Paul references the Cherubim and then says, "of which we cannot now speak particularly."  I wonder what he means by that?  Is there something about Cherubim that is not in scripture yet revealed to apostles that they are not allowed to teach to the saints - perhaps some other time?

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There is an 's' in the scriptures, although I agree, although I agree - Hebrew tends to use an 'm' to denote something is plural, although no one seems to agree on what language cherubim comes from.  Do you ever use the BLB?

 

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H3742&t=KJV

 

 

The creature is a combination of a man, an ox, a lion, and an eagle.

 

man + ox = power  (Heavenly Father)

lion + eagle = wisdom (another of the names for Heavenly Mother)

 

...

 

Part of my understanding of Cherub comes from conversations with a Jewish Rabi.  There is a Hebrew word - that I cannot find right now - that starts with what I think is a K.  The problem (according to my Rabi source) is that the Hebrew word does not have a translation - especially into modern languages.

 

cherubim and a flaming sword... what do you suppose the flaming sword is?

 

It seems obviously that the Genesis reference is symbolic of something.  I believe that something is part of the plan of salvation and will show up somewhere else in scripture.  The only place I find such symbolism in relation to the salvation of man - is also a place famous for symbolism - I believe the prophesy concerning a Cherub with a flame of fire and a sword (symbolism) is in the Book of Revelation chapter 19.  Anyway that is the best reference I have found - you have any ideas?

Edited by Traveler
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I just wanted to say there is a distinction between a rod and a staff.  A staff is for help walking, but the rod is shorter and used to protect and defend the sheep as well as clearing a path.  It is a symbol of power.  Hence it was fitting that the rod's of all the leaders of the tribes of Israel put their rod in but only Aaron's rod budded, signifying that it was through his line that power to officiate rites and ordinances could happen.  Also interesting to note is not only did it bud, it also produced 3 different stages of almonds at the same time, the bud, the fruit, and some middle stage which I am blanking on what it's called. 

 

Traveler, the word your looking for is הַכְּרֻבִ֗ים or Cherub literally.  The Ch is a k sound when it has a dagesh or a dot in it.  There is a definite article so it should read "the Keruvs."  What is also very interesting is the word play with sword, which is also Cherev.  הַחֶ֙רֶב֙  The voweling is slightly different but the consonants would sound exactly the same if it were not for the dagesh(dot) in the first one. 

 

A possible meaning for the flaming sword could be a symbol for Jesus.  Think about what the Cheruvs and the sword are guarding, also Isaiah 49:2 presents interesting imagery of a sword and a mouth.  The idea that it's flaming is interesting too, Job 41:21 and many Isaiah passages suggest flame is giving a judgment or justice.  I don't want to get more specific here.

 

Further to add to the discussion, the word "to keep" could also be translated as "to watch," or "to preserve."  And it should be important to highlight that the object is "the way..." or "the road..."

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I just wanted to say there is a distinction between a rod and a staff.  A staff is for help walking, but the rod is shorter and used to protect and defend the sheep as well as clearing a path.  It is a symbol of power.  Hence it was fitting that the rod's of all the leaders of the tribes of Israel put their rod in but only Aaron's rod budded, signifying that it was through his line that power to officiate rites and ordinances could happen.  Also interesting to note is not only did it bud, it also produced 3 different stages of almonds at the same time, the bud, the fruit, and some middle stage which I am blanking on what it's called. 

 

Traveler, the word your looking for is הַכְּרֻבִ֗ים or Cherub literally.  The Ch is a k sound when it has a dagesh or a dot in it.  There is a definite article so it should read "the Keruvs."  What is also very interesting is the word play with sword, which is also Cherev.  הַחֶ֙רֶב֙  The voweling is slightly different but the consonants would sound exactly the same if it were not for the dagesh(dot) in the first one. 

 

A possible meaning for the flaming sword could be a symbol for Jesus.  Think about what the Cheruvs and the sword are guarding, also Isaiah 49:2 presents interesting imagery of a sword and a mouth.  The idea that it's flaming is interesting too, Job 41:21 and many Isaiah passages suggest flame is giving a judgment or justice.  I don't want to get more specific here.

 

Further to add to the discussion, the word "to keep" could also be translated as "to watch," or "to preserve."  And it should be important to highlight that the object is "the way..." or "the road..."

 

Often the symbol of a sword is for justice - and fire is to purify or to make clean.  It is interesting that often fire is symbolically coupled with refining in order to make metals pure. 

 

Thank you for the emphasis on the way, path or road.  It has always been interesting to me that the ancients focused more on the way and the path than on the church or the congregation which is the focus of modern religions.

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