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Any thoughts on the 2nd U.S. Civil War?

 

This was a letter from Nephi Packard to A. Milton Musser on July 24, 1896:

"... My brother, Noah Packard, says that he heard the Prophet Joseph say that the next great (U.S. civil) war after the war of the rebellion (the Civil War of the 1860's between the North and the South) would commence in a little town now called Chicago but at that time it would have grown to be a very large city. And another brother told me that the Prophet said that the cause of the next great trouble of the United States would be the depreciation of the currency of the United States. I believe I have given you all the facts in as short and concise manner as possible."

 

 

Second Great Rebellion or Chicago Quote - A. Milton Musser papers, LDS Church Archives.

 

 

1913 is when the Federal Reserve, which is actually a privately-owned central bank, took over the US banking system.  The purchasing power of the US dollar since 1913 has been pretty much downhill since the Fed took over.  In fact, the dollar has lost over 96% of its value.  That means today’s dollar would be worth less than 4 cents back in 1913 (Source).

 

The dollar is also losing its reserve currency status (see this).

 

Another quote regarding the Civil War itself comes from an interview by Dr. Poulson with David Whitmer, printed in the Deseret News on Friday, August 16, 1878:

Question: When will the temple be built in Independence?


Answer: Right after the great tribulation is over

Question: What do you mean by that?

Answer: A civil war more bloody and cruel than the rebellion. It will be the smashing up of this nation, about which time the second great work has to be done, a wor
k like Joseph did, and the translation of the sealed plates and peace all over.

 

 

“What then will be the condition of that people, when this great and terrible war shall come? It will be very different from the war between the North and the South. Do you wish me to describe it? I will do so. It will be a war of neighborhood against neighborhood, city against city, town against town, county against county, state against state, and they will go forth destroying and being destroyed and manufacturing will, in a great measure, cease, for a time, among the American nation. Why? Because in these terrible wars, they will not be privileged to manufacture, there will be too much bloodshed--too much mobocracy--too much going forth in bands and destroying and pillaging the land to suffer people to pursue any local vocation with any degree of safety. What will become of millions of the farmers upon that land? They will leave their farms and they will remain uncultivated, and they will flee before the ravaging armies from place to place; and thus will they go forth burning and pillaging the whole country; and that great and powerful nation, now consisting of some forty millions of people, will be wasted away, unless they repent.” - O PRATT, JD 20:151

 

 

“The little gardens and a few trees are very valuable. I remember when the sisters used to say, `well, but we could buy it at the store a lot cheaper than we could put it up.' But that isn't quite the answer, is it, Sister Spafford? Because there will become a time when there isn't a store.” - Spencer W. Kimball (General Conference, April 1974)

 

 

I saw men hunting the lives of their own sons, and brother murdering brother, women killing their own daughters, and daughters seeking the lives of their mothers. I saw armies arrayed against armies. I saw blood, desolation, fires. The Son of man has said that the mother shall be against the daughters, and the daughter against the mother. These things are at our doors. They will follow the Saints of God from city to city. Satan will rage, and the spirit of the devil is now enraged. I know not how soon these things will take place; but with a view of them, shall I cry peace? No; I will lift up my voice and testify of them. How long you will have good crops, and the famine be kept off, I do not know; when the fig tree leaves, know then that the summer is nigh at hand. -  J SMITH, TPJS :161

Edited by Average Joe
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A couple of observations:

 

1. Joseph Smith seemed to link it with crop failure and famine.

 

2. Orson Pratt and Spencer W. Kimball indicated manufacture and stores will cease operating for the most part. Service providing jobs made up 79.9% of the U.S. Employment by major industry sector (source).

 

3. In addition to dollar depreciation, based on Census Bureau data, the number of Americans on welfare in the fourth quarter of 2011 totaled 108,592,000, adding up to 35.4 percent of Americans.

 

4. For now, 58.7 per cent of American adults are working if the actual employment-population ratio is taken into consideration, leaving about 82 million, or almost 41 per cent of people unemployed. Only 8 per cent, however, are even interested in work, leaving 33 per cent of Americans not only jobless — but with no desire for work.

 
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Get a copy of Gerald Lund's book The Coming Of The Lord and read chapters 4 and 5 on the United States.

 

I believe a 2nd Civil War is coming.  I believe WW3 is also coming.  On the other side of those events are some great gospel happenings, like the building of the New Jerusalem.

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Get a copy of Gerald Lund's book The Coming Of The Lord and read chapters 4 and 5 on the United States.

 

I believe a 2nd Civil War is coming.  I believe WW3 is also coming.  On the other side of those events are some great gospel happenings, like the building of the New Jerusalem.

I may have to read that book for myself.
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Get a copy of Gerald Lund's book The Coming Of The Lord and read chapters 4 and 5 on the United States.

 

I believe a 2nd Civil War is coming.  I believe WW3 is also coming.  On the other side of those events are some great gospel happenings, like the building of the New Jerusalem.

 

Thanks for the recommend. I too believe a 2nd Civil War and WW3 are coming. I also believe that true power of the priesthood will be manifest during these trials. It won't be enough to be a priesthood holder, one will need to be a priesthood bearer. 

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I don't believe any of these silly stories the way you are taking them.

They are mostly against the scripture prophecies the way many of you seem to interpret them.

AJs comments have the way of it. I don't believe in any future civil war in the US. WWIII could happen, but depending on how one sees current events, maybe it's happening now. The War on Terror is certainly global.

Edited by mrmarklin
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I don't believe any of these silly stories the way you are taking them.

They are mostly against the scripture prophecies the way many of you seem to interpret them.

AJs comments have the way of it. I don't believe in any future civil war in the US. WWIII could happen, but depending on how one sees current events, maybe it's happening now. The War on Terror is certainly global.

I don't believe we are in WW III right now.
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I am uncertain of a future civil war in the United States.  But the conflict in the middle east we see now could be possibly the beginning of World War III.  The I.S.I.S. conflict just seems to be growing and not getting smaller.  We shall see.

Edited by Still_Small_Voice
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China, Russia, Iran, Pakistan, North Korea, India, are all gearing up... and because they are their neighbors want to as well (or want more US interdiction).

and about every clique in US politics want things their way and everyone else's in flames.

And everybody is more or less getting pissed off with their neighbors, sooner or later something is going to snap (and a lot of it is directed at the US.)...



yeah its going to happen, and sooner or later nuclear weapons of some sort are going to get involved, and once that happens everyone else is going to get involved (seriously who wants nukes going off in their neighbors back yard?).

Edited by Blackmarch
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I don't believe any of these silly stories the way you are taking them.

They are mostly against the scripture prophecies the way many of you seem to interpret them.

AJs comments have the way of it. I don't believe in any future civil war in the US. WWIII could happen, but depending on how one sees current events, maybe it's happening now. The War on Terror is certainly global.

 

Are you kidding me?  Look at what's happening in our streets already these days.  Another civil war in the U.S. doesn't seem far fetched to me at all.

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Get a copy of Gerald Lund's book The Coming Of The Lord and read chapters 4 and 5 on the United States.

 

I believe a 2nd Civil War is coming.  I believe WW3 is also coming.  On the other side of those events are some great gospel happenings, like the building of the New Jerusalem.

This is all very silly, there will be no 2nd civil war and WWIII who knows, but it won't be on our shores.

 

Take up golf or something guys....jeez

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Guest MormonGator

I think every generation wants to feel we are in the final days/end times. You can look for reasons to believe it. For what it's worth (and I freely admit my opinion is worth nothing) I don't worry about it in the least. If it's coming, there is precious little we can do about it. 

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I think every generation wants to feel we are in the final days/end times. You can look for reasons to believe it. For what it's worth (and I freely admit my opinion is worth nothing) I don't worry about it in the least. If it's coming, there is precious little we can do about it. 

I don't want to feel that we are in the final/end times.

 

If we are so be it, but nothing happening now is any different from anything that happened 50 or 100 years ago.

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Guest MormonGator

I don't want to feel that we are in the final/end times.

 

If we are so be it, but nothing happening now is any different from anything that happened 50 or 100 years ago.

 I've met many people in my life from all religious backgrounds who complain about our "sick society" and "we are in the end times because of this or that immorality in society"

 

I disagree completely. Like Gordon Hinckley said "Oh what a marvelous time it is to be alive" 

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I think every generation wants to feel we are in the final days/end times. You can look for reasons to believe it. For what it's worth (and I freely admit my opinion is worth nothing) I don't worry about it in the least. If it's coming, there is precious little we can do about it. 

A little more than 100 years ago World War 1 started.  9 million soldiers, and probably about 7 million civilians died because of this war.  Almost every country in the world was involved in this war, which was to be the war to end all wars.  

 

Given what is going on in the world right now, we've got it very easy....

 

We as a nation haven't been asked to sacrifice much for our tiny conflicts 

 

Things have to get a lot worse before I believe a civil war, or WW 3 are about to commence, or are even on the horizon for our lifetimes.

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Any particular reason why you believe something that has happened in the past, and often happens across civilizations and history, will not happen again?

 

History never quite repeats itself, really.  If one keeps one's eye on the prophecies of the last days it is very clear, that for the gospel to "fill the whole earth" we must have a more liberal society than today exists.

 

Of course there will be wars and suffering to accomplish this goal ie.. the destruction of the wicked if you will.  The sufferings and wars enumerated in the scriptures have already happened and will continue to happen.

 

But there is a pattern emerging.

In part,

 

The American revolution was the first democracy seen since ancient days

The French revolution soon followed

Civil war in the US freed the slaves.  The US was, sadly, the last nation to have this activity as a legal institution.

The First World War toppled all the major monarchies of Europe leading to more freedom

The Second World War among other things created the groundwork for a Jewish homeland.

The Cold War eventually toppled several evil empires of communism and oppression, a process that continues currently.

The internet has been invented, along with methods of communication unknown previously.  This makes it more difficult for dictators and oppressors to stay in power because it's more difficult to lie to the people.

Of course as LDS we see the implications of conflict in the middle east as apocalyptic, even if the rest of the world doesn't.

This conflict will eventually lead to many countries and peoples being open to receiving the gospel.

 

The trend over the last several hundred years is more liberalization of the world and more openness to the teachings of the gospel beginning with the invention of the printing press.

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I don't believe any of these silly stories the way you are taking them.

I don't believe in any future civil war in the US.

 

No doubt the Nephites thought the same thing right before each one of their civil wars. 

 

Mormon made it clear that he was writing to those who would live on the promised land in the last days, and he used up an awful lot of space on the plates talking about the Nephite civil wars. 

 

I don't believe that was a coincidence.

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Guest MormonGator

Personal attacks make you more credible.  Nicely played.

I agree with you and I apologize if anything I said was ever taken personal. It is not my intention. I may disagree at times with various posters but I everyone here has always made me think. Again, I apologize if I ever offended anyone. 

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