If one has financial issues does that make someone unworthy to be a good standing member!?!


MartyJones
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I am just feeling like I am in the lowest point of my life. I am going through a financial issues and I am filing for bankruptcy . How did I get here, did not see it coming, I was just dumb. A close family member ripped me into million pieces. And gave ALL information to the creditors. Now, my check is being garnished and I hope by filing BK . I can get a new start.

Any advice?

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See a bankruptcy Attorney that is licensed for the Bankruptcy Court in your jurisdiction (area) and that regularly practices bankruptcy.

 

They can straighten you out on that.

 

As to worthiness, I suppose it all depends.  Did you just run up a bunch of debts due to some vice or sin?   Such as gambling, drug use, or what not?

Or did you have an accident or injury, or job loss that caused this catastrophic problem in your finances or budget.

Are you a shop-a-holic, did you spend above and beyond your means for non essential things, frivolous things?

You have to take your own financial and emotional or moral inventory to find that out.

And correct the situation and learn from it.

dc

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My feelings- Bankruptcy and debt have nothing to do with worthiness. How you got there may play some role. What you are currently doing about it plays the biggest role.

Bankruptcy, when used properly, is one of the examples of a law that is merciful.

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I am just feeling like I am in the lowest point of my life. I am going through a financial issues and I am filing for bankruptcy . How did I get here, did not see it coming, I was just dumb. A close family member ripped me into million pieces. And gave ALL information to the creditors. Now, my check is being garnished and I hope by filing BK . I can get a new start.

Any advice?

Of course financial issues do not make a person unworthy, as others have said, but how you got into your problems and how you are dealing with them may. You left out this important information so it's hard to give complete advice. Also, it appears your family member handled the situation poorly but I think it makes a difference if you are talking about your spouse or your cousin. In short, more information would be very helpful.

 

In general there has been some advice given about bankruptcy by church leaders. Here are a couple of statements:

Hear me carefully so you don’t misunderstand. Our bankruptcy law is on the books for the rare occasion when true disaster strikes a family, and none of us would take away that protection. But I’ll also tell you it cannot function as it ought in a society with overextended and, frankly, somewhat dishonest people.

The editorial [“Broken Promises,” Salt Lake Tribune, 15 Jan. 2001, A8] goes on to suggest that the majority of these 15,000 people [who filed bankruptcy in the state of Utah during the year 2000] are not using chapter 13. Chapter 13 of the Bankruptcy Act permits the applicant to repay his debts over a longer period of time and to pay them himself or herself. Instead, more than 9,000 of those 15,000 people applied for chapter 7, which permits one to break his promises to his creditors and walk away from his debts, leaving his obligations forever unpaid. https://www.lds.org/ensign/2002/04/search-the-prophets?lang=eng#footnote6-22904_000_010

Please listen carefully to this—and if it makes some of you feel uncomfortable, it is on purpose: Latter-day Saints who ignore or avoid their creditors are entitled to feel the inner frustrations that such conduct merits, and they are not living as Latter-day Saints should! Bankruptcy should be avoided, except only under the most unique and irreversible circumstances, and then utilized only after prayerful thought and thorough legal and financial consultation. ("One For the Money", Elder Marvin J. Ashton)

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Worthy: Dealing with the situation in a legal and ethical manner, even though it is very hard.

 

Unworthy: On the run from the law, hiding from creditors, committing fraud, stealing money to stay on top of things, etc.

 

From what I understand, going through the bankruptcy process IS what dealing with the situation looks like.  You know what kind of man keeps his head down, and digs himself out of his troubles?  The right kind of man.  Even if he made mistakes and brought those troubles on himself.

Edited by NeuroTypical
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Guest MormonGator

james12 has nailed the essence of this issue. Being poor is no sin, and even declaring bankruptcy per se is not a sinful act. But running up debt and then declaring bankruptcy in order to avoid paying what you agreed to pay is, in general, not honest.

 100% true! Huge difference between a guy/girl busting their butt working 80+ hours a week to feed their family and simply needs help and a dude who runs up huge bills and knowingly will blow off his creditors. Very good point. 

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Guest LiterateParakeet

My feelings- Bankruptcy and debt have nothing to do with worthiness. How you got there may play some role. What you are currently doing about it plays the biggest role.

Bankruptcy, when used properly, is one of the examples of a law that is merciful.

 

I love this.

 

Going through bankruptcy is demoralizing, but the fact that there are laws to allow it is merciful.  My hubby and I went through bankruptcy years ago (job loss led to it).  It was hard financially and emotionally, but we are better off now.  I mean we learned how to correct our mistakes.  If we experienced the same job loss now, we would not be in the same perilous situation, because for example, we have no credit cards.  After the bankruptcy we said no more credit cards...ever.  We've stuck to that and never regretted it.  The only debt we have now is our house.

 

Even if poor decisions played into your situation, you can be forgiven. We are all sinners.  Hang in there.  Do everything you can, and some day this will all be behind you.

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Thank you for all your advice .... I was laid off due to companies merging... I used a large portion of my 401k to pay basic necessities and stay afloat....... I called the CC folks....did not get anywhere ...... The worst of all , being in my mid 30's , sounds very silly , but I was ripped by my father..... He went haywired.... To the point that he does not want me to come around to visit... I am a grown man........but I guess this was the cherry on top.... I don't know anyone well enough that has had this happen..... Needless to say , thanks for your good advice.....

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It is possible that financial issues also affects worthiness --- if you spent beyond your means intentionally and knowingly.

 

But even if you do need to repent of something, all sins can be repented of.   And everyone who attends church has sins.   Talk your situation over with God and your bishop to resolve them.

 

Bankruptcy is intended to help you start fresh.   If you think you morally owe people money you are going to discharge in bankruptcy, then after it is over, send them as much as you can afford to do.  Even if you legally will not owe anyone anything, you may still morally owe, and if so then continuing to try to do that would be honorable.

 

If you are saying that someone took advantage of you, then if a crime has been committed, you should report that so the person can be held accountable and your creditors can get some restitution.

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I am just feeling like I am in the lowest point of my life. I am going through a financial issues and I am filing for bankruptcy . How did I get here, did not see it coming, I was just dumb. A close family member ripped me into million pieces. And gave ALL information to the creditors. Now, my check is being garnished and I hope by filing BK . I can get a new start.

Any advice?

to the question title. no your financial standing itself will not have bearing on your standing as a member, poor or rich, income or none.

What might have some influence is if there were sinful actions you've taken in your past (as a member, after your baptism) against another person that still need repenting of, that has contributed to your current state.

If it's just a case of having borrowed too much money that you haven't been able to pay back yet, I have no idea how significant that is- that's something you'll  have to ask the bishop about. The devil is in the details and the intent of actions.

If that's the case if you're willing to repent and work on it, it shouldn't stand in your way much.

if that's not the case at all, then it should have absolutely no bearing on your standing as a member.

as for financial advice the previous posters have bertter addvice than I.

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FWIW, after the federal bankruptcy act of 1840, two of the first bankruptcy filers in the state of Illinois were . . . Joseph Smith and Hyrum Smith.

 

Also, be advised that by liquidating your 401(k) to pay off as much debt as you can you've already made a *huge* show of good faith to your creditors; because (generally speaking) the bankruptcy code doesn't require you to do that.  Unless the code has changed since I was doing bankruptcies three years ago, a bankruptcy filer gets to keep his entire 401(k), excepting only any contributions made to it in the last year.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I know a good member of the church who just couldn't hold down a job, and had been fired several times because of emotional and social issues.

 

The Lord Himself said that He gave us weaknesses.  We need to do the best we can, and stay true to the gospel.

 

Anyway, I got really annoyed at all the stake conferences where the stake presidency and other speakers talked about their own faith, and how well things were going for them and their families -- all their children went on a mission, married in the temple, and are bishops or stake presidents.  

 

Finally I spoke to one of the SP counselors about it, and I guess it got through.  I noted a real change in the talks, basically telling us that we all have issues and struggles.  And things don't always turn out ok for us.

 

We just keep moving on with our lives, and living the gospel as best as we can.

Edited by cdowis
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Well, there was one instance on my mission where being poor did affect the worthiness. He was a great man, but because of difficult times, he could not pay his child support. He was behind it for over a year or so. Because of this, he could not get baptized. It was sad. He eventually got his feet under him again and is now baptized and sealed in temple! But he was a good man, who did nothing wrong, besides not being able to pay the child support.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I was the finance clerk for the YSA branch I was in. 

 

If you're having financial difficulties, then speak with the bishop / branch president over your congregation. 

 

This alone should answer any questions about how you stand. 

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Guest MormonGator

Well, there was one instance on my mission where being poor did affect the worthiness. He was a great man, but because of difficult times, he could not pay his child support. He was behind it for over a year or so. Because of this, he could not get baptized. It was sad. He eventually got his feet under him again and is now baptized and sealed in temple! But he was a good man, who did nothing wrong, besides not being able to pay the child support.

 Sad. One of the best guys I know got stuck in the same situation. 

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Bankruptcy, when used properly, is one of the examples of a law that is merciful.

 

I know I'm going to catch heck for this since your post has so many "likes", but I want to ask, "Merciful for whom?" 
 
It certainly isn't merciful for the plumber, the dentist, the owner of the furniture store, or anyone else who is ultimately robbed of their labor or capital. 
Bankruptcy laws are in many instances (particularly Chapter 7) nothing short of legalized theft under the guise of "mercy". 
If a creditor feels to extend mercy to the debtor he has every right to do so, but ONLY the creditor has that right! You and I (or all of us together) have no right whatsoever to legislate mercy, and if someone here can explain why we do have that right and how we acquired it I would dearly love to hear it.
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  • 2 weeks later...

...Any advice?

As a direct answer to the title question my opinion is "no", financial issues in and of themselves don't make one an unworthy member. Financial issues do, however, rob one of much freedom to act and to progress until one turns one's behavior around, breaks foolish habits, and repays one's debts. I have personal feelings about filing bankruptcy and its proliferation to the extent of being used excessively to the hurt of legitimate and honest creditors--but I think it must be examined one debtor at a time without indulging in the temptation to unrighteously judge all debtors.

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I am just feeling like I am in the lowest point of my life. I am going through a financial issues and I am filing for bankruptcy . How did I get here, did not see it coming, I was just dumb. A close family member ripped me into million pieces. And gave ALL information to the creditors. Now, my check is being garnished and I hope by filing BK . I can get a new start.

Any advice?

 

Throughout human history financial issues have been considered as a divine curse for disobedience.  But in the epoch of Job - the loss of all his economy was actually a test or trial - and it is a trial that is a type and shadow of the suffering of Christ.  The purpose of a saint is to lift others when they are down - do not hid your trial from the community of saints - and remember well those that give assistance - in my experience those that help the most are often those suffering loses as well.  This means that despite your particular struggle - do not look away from others in need.

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