Crazy conspiracies?

[Bini]

Thought this would be interesting, especially, with all the opinions that float around here...

 

Since I'm not an expert on conspiracy theories, or the topics they cover, the sensationalism of what-really-happened seems to always reel in my curiosity. Even though I'm not an expert, there's certain conspiracy theories that while intriguing, I just don't buy - like the moon landing... Alright, so the most recent conspiracy theory that I've heard about was that 9/11 was orchestrated by the US government. Naturally, it was posted on my FB feed (which we all know is a great resource for accurate and unbiased information lol). I didn't read through the whole article but bits and pieces.

 

So what are some conspiracies that you agree with or don't agree with? (Like I said, I'm no expert on this, especially on government conspiracies! Very clueless on that category, specifically. But I'd be interest in other types of conspiracy theories, too...maybe Big Foot?...lol)

[SpiritDragon]

Pearl Harbor was known about and allowed to happen anyway to get the US involved in the war... I don't really buy it.

 

Fluoride is actually added to the water supply to make us stupid so that the population is easier to control as they'll lack higher brain function and critical thinking... I don't buy it.

 

The catholic church has hidden volumes of alien visitations in a vault under the vatican... I believe they have vaults under the Vatican, but the alien thing - come on.

[yjacket]

Pearl Harbor was known about and allowed to happen anyway to get the US involved in the war... I don't really buy it.

 

Fluoride is actually added to the water supply to make us stupid so that the population is easier to control as they'll lack higher brain function and critical thinking... I don't buy it.

 

The catholic church has hidden volumes of alien visitations in a vault under the vatican... I believe they have vaults under the Vatican, but the alien thing - come on.

 

FDR did sign the Atlantic Charter prior to Pearl Harbor (essentially involving the US in the war even though we were supposed to be neutral), the US also put an oil embargo against Japan prior to Pearl Harbor which according to traditional maritime laws is an act of war, so while it may or may not have been known to happen- the US was certainly trying to pick a fight. Japan did not attack the US just because, the US was waging economic warfare and they retaliated.

 

I don't think fluoride was added to make people stupid, but on the surface the premise of fluoridation seems ridiculous.  Add fluoride to water to prevent cavities. When you go to the dentist office they tell you to swish the fluoride for 30 seconds and then spit it out . . .that is a high dose fluoride. Yet somehow extremely small doses of fluoride that does not stay in the mouth for more than a couple of seconds and then it goes to the stomach is supposed to prevent cavities?  Fluoride toothpaste has warning labels, yet drinking small doses of fluoride is healthy?  Nope, what will do more to prevent cavities is don't drink sugar drinks, don't drink soda drinks, floss daily and brush daily . . . simple as that.

[David13]

FDR did sign the Atlantic Charter prior to Pearl Harbor (essentially involving the US in the war even though we were supposed to be neutral), the US also put an oil embargo against Japan prior to Pearl Harbor which according to traditional maritime laws is an act of war, so while it may or may not have been known to happen- the US was certainly trying to pick a fight. Japan did not attack the US just because, the US was waging economic warfare and they retaliated.

 

 

Actually, it was well known that war was inevitable.  FDR did not "get" the USA involved.

The Japanese were on a world conquest.  As were the Germans.  They both believed there was a master race, destined to rule the entire world.  They just couldn't agree who it was.  The Japanese said they were the master race, and the Germans said they were the master race.

Their agreement was to divide the world down the Mississippi river, German to rule all the world to the east, and Japan all the world to the west.

Japan, at the time of the Pearl Harbor attack was conquering and fighting and enslaving much of the Pacific rim.

Hitler had asked the Japanese to wait on their attack.  I don't recall why they jumped the gun, but they did.

The US sanctions against Japan were as a result of their various military endeavors being carried out at the time.

They were attacking everybody.

It was just a question as to where the USA fell on their hit list.

dc

[yjacket]

Actually, it was well known that war was inevitable.  FDR did not "get" the USA involved.

The Japanese were on a world conquest.  As were the Germans.  They both believed there was a master race, destined to rule the entire world.  They just couldn't agree who it was.  The Japanese said they were the master race, and the Germans said they were the master race.

Their agreement was to divide the world down the Mississippi river, German to rule all the world to the east, and Japan all the world to the west.

Japan, at the time of the Pearl Harbor attack was conquering and fighting and enslaving much of the Pacific rim.

Hitler had asked the Japanese to wait on their attack.  I don't recall why they jumped the gun, but they did.

The US sanctions against Japan were as a result of their various military endeavors being carried out at the time.

They were attacking everybody.

It was just a question as to where the USA fell on their hit list.

dc

I've got to disagree. Not the case at all.

 

History has been severely distorted, it is much, much more complex and nuanced then Germany "evil", Japan "evil", they wanted to take over the world, US good. But seeing as the first causality in any war is the truth I'm backing out as I will be fighting a battle I cannot win because the myth is so much better than the truth. 

[Guest MormonGator]

None. I don't believe in any conspiracy. In fact, I think conspiracy theorists do incredible damage with their arrogance and refusal to look at facts/use basic logic in their arguments. It used to bother me and I used to attempt to reason with them. Then, I realized that about 10% of people still believe Elvis is alive. So I gave up and include them with those people. They have that zero credibility in reality. Most people just pat them on the head and let them babble. I do. 

 

I highly recommend "Why People Believe in Conspiracies" by Michael Shermer. Google it. 

Edited July 12, 2015 by MormonGator

[SpiritDragon]

Secret combinations are running the world behind the scenes. It doesn't matter who you vote for in any given election because the secret combinations will ensure that only the policies they want to see put forth will happen anyway. I do absolutely believe that there are corrupt secret combinations at work in powerful places that have a lot of political and economic clout. How much power? I don't know. Are many of them working together to create a new world order... the illuminati and the Bilderbergs and Rockefellers? I really don't know.

 

Does the idea of Danites (a secret band of Mormon assassins/enforcers) count as a conspiracy theory? Some purport that Brigham Young had a band of men that would secretly eliminate threats to the church and murder sinners and so on. Others even claim that the band still exists. If it does exist it isn't terribly effective in my opinion. As for whether Danites existed in Brigham's time, I think there is perhaps something to it, but it gets greatly exaggerated and over-hyped into some kind of more exciting lore than the truth ever was. Something akin to suggesting that we plot world conquest in the secrecy of the temple.

[yjacket]

None. I don't believe in any conspiracy. In fact, I think conspiracy theorists do incredible damage with their arrogance and refusal to look at facts/use basic logic in their arguments. It used to bother me and I used to attempt to reason with them. Then, I realized that about 10% of people still believe Elvis is alive. So I gave up and include them with those people. They have that zero credibility in reality. Most people just pat them on the head and let them babble. I do. 

 

I highly recommend "Why People Believe in Conspiracies" by Michael Shermer. Google it. 

??

 

I'm sort of confused facts and logic? A conspiracy is simple a couple of people (or more) getting together to do something nefarious. Conspiracies happen all the time, it's just the level and scale that differ. People conspire together to kill other people, the scriptures are full of examples of conspiring, evil and wicked individuals who plan, scheme and execute those plans in order to bring about evil and wicked things.

 

When talking a conspiracy, one really needs to narrow down what type of conspiracy.  I'm pretty sure most conspiracy theories have some kernel of truth in them. For example Aliens and UFOs = military testing of advanced fighters. Mind-control = MK-Ultra https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra

 

If someone made the claims that the US government was conducting experiments like what happened in MK Ultra, people would say they were nuts . . .yet that is exactly what happened. Experimentation on US citizens involving drugs (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Olson).

 

I've been involved in enough politics and enough government works to say with 100% certainty conspiracies absolutely happen today . . .it's just the level and scale.  

 

Some conspiracy theories are way out there like the US staged a landing on the moon or chemtrails (I guess possible, but highly unlikely) to others that are more realistic, i.e. Bengazi was the US gun running weapons to terrorist organizations to fight against Assad.

 

In general the larger the amount of people that would need (and at different levels) to be involved in a conspiracy to make it happen, the less likelihood that it is really a conspiracy (secrets like to get out).

 

In politics, no doubt it happens . .. 

[Guest]

I do believe that there are modern-day Gadianton robbers. I believe these people orchestrate certain things to happen to bring about their own goals. I suspect that Washington DC is thick with them, and that they pull the media puppet strings.

 

I don't believe in chem trails, or that "big pHarma" is out to make tons of money and take over the world with vaccines.

[char713]

The only one besides the modern Gadianton Robbers thing that Eowyn mentioned is about the Nazis. 

 

I have yet to do more research but I read the book "The Pink Swastika" by Scott Lively and Kevin Abrams. It is about how most if not all of Hitler's inner circle were closeted masculine homosexuals and that they systematically persecuted effeminate homosexuals amongst the rest of the victims of the holocaust. You can find the whole thing in a PDF online now. 

 

 

The Pink Swastika documents a hidden aspect of German history. The authors contend that homosexualism, elevated to a popular ideology and combined with black occult forces, not only gave birth to Nazi imperialism but also led to the Holocaust itself. The militarists in Germany were happy with Hitler. His teachings on “total war” and of a secret Jewish conspiracy against Germany provided a good screen for their own veiled preparations. From its very inception, it was the goal of the Nazi Party, working as a front for the German military industrial complex, to overthrow the Weimar Republic by whatever means necessary. The Pink Swastika documents how, from their beginning, the National Socialist revolution and the Nazi Party were animated and dominated by militaristic homosexuals, pederasts, pornographers and sado-masochists. 

[Just_A_Guy]

FDR did sign the Atlantic Charter prior to Pearl Harbor (essentially involving the US in the war even though we were supposed to be neutral), the US also put an oil embargo against Japan prior to Pearl Harbor which according to traditional maritime laws is an act of war, so while it may or may not have been known to happen- the US was certainly trying to pick a fight. Japan did not attack the US just because, the US was waging economic warfare and they retaliated.

 

Well, hang on a sec.  There's a difference between an embargo and a blockade.  The former--the mere prohibition of commerce between your own nation and another--is not inherently an act of war.  The latter--prohibition of commerce between another nation and any other nation--is.  Also, I don't see how an oil embargo specifically could be an act of war under "traditional maritime laws", given that the demand for oil had exploded only in about the last 20-30 years.

 

I wouldn't put it past FDR to have added fuel to the fire, so to speak; but I see nothing wrong with an embargo of war materiel against an openly expansionist nation with an almost unprecedentedly sadistic fighting corps.

Edited July 13, 2015 by Just_A_Guy

[David13]

And remember JAG Japan had no N O oil, not even to this day, I believe.  But clearly the war was inevitable.  Roosevelt knew that.  Others at the time did not want to get involved, but I think it was inevitable. 

There were even those in Japan that thought it a great mistake to carry out the Pearl Harbor attack. 

But how can you account for Hitler turning east.  You can't.  It just makes no sense, other than to confirm his insanity.

The entire NAZI regime was rife with homosexuals, criminals, etc.

Some people think the facts are myth, and the myth is fact.  I'm still learning and I graduated with Distinction from a college, a big kids school, the study school, more than 40 years ago.

But with the internet the conspiracy theorists are always better educated than anyone.

dc

[hagoth]

...Alright, so the most recent conspiracy theory that I've heard about was that 9/11 was orchestrated by the US government....

I disagree with your OP. There's nothing crazy about conspiracies. They happen all the time, especially when there is something to gain.

 

Based on the evidence, and on the motive, I would venture that it was the military industrial complex - not the government itself - which actually had something to gain from a protracted war from 9/11. I've seen the frame-by-frame investigations of the footage of the planes hitting the tower, and it's pretty conclusive. (Subsequent findings by a former BYU professor confirm some of what the video footage implies.)

 

See, for example, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_E._Jones

 

While on that topic, consider the warning of President Eisenhower, president and former five-star general:

http://www.npr.org/2011/01/17/132942244/ikes-warning-of-military-expansion-50-years-later

 

By way of background, one of the last classes I took for my bachelors degree was a political science course called The Dilemmas of War and Peace, which was by far the most thought-provoking and reading-intensive course I have ever taken. It was developed by the Annenberg Foundation. I highly recommend it to anyone who has interest in the general topics of war and peace.

Edited July 13, 2015 by hagoth

[David13]

Hagoth, I have to agree with you to a certain point there, but I'm still uncertain at to the trade towers incident.

I'm again reminded by all the self righteious politicians (usually Democrats) who declare they "shall bring peace to the middle east". 

Yet the middle east has been at war one tribe versus another since the beginning of recorded history.

Thus I conclude that there is just a general extensive human tendency to make war.  At least for a certain amount of time, it is the 'natural state' of mankind.

So the military doesn't necessarily have to look for combantants or create or stimulate them.

They do act on their own accord.

But you are right.  Military/industrial does have a great, a tremendous financial interest there.

dc

[mirkwood]

I do believe that there are modern-day Gadianton robbers. I believe these people orchestrate certain things to happen to bring about their own goals. I suspect that Washington DC is thick with them, and that they pull the media puppet strings.

 

I don't believe in chem trails, or that "big pHarma" is out to make tons of money and take over the world with vaccine

 

 

Worth taking the time to read (I have a hard copy myself):

 

http://www.ldsfreedomnetwork.com/none-dare-call-it-conspiracy.pdf

[FunkyTown]

There are always conspiracies. You've probably been part of one yourself - Maybe to throw a surprise birthday party, maybe to keep your friend from realizing how hideous her haircut was.

 

As for global conspiracies, I tend to not believe them. 9/11 was probably not an inside job despite the US being involved in some provable false-flag conspiracies, but JFK was probably assassinated due to a conspiracy.

 

I just can't buy the JFK magic bullet theory. Unless they included that said bullet invented a time machine, went back in time and took out Gandhi. In that case, that's just too cool not to believe.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

Secret combinations are running the world behind the scenes. It doesn't matter who you vote for in any given election because the secret combinations will ensure that only the policies they want to see put forth will happen anyway. I do absolutely believe that there are corrupt secret combinations at work in powerful places that have a lot of political and economic clout. How much power? I don't know. Are many of them working together to create a new world order... the illuminati and the Bilderbergs and Rockefellers? I really don't know.

 

Does the idea of Danites (a secret band of Mormon assassins/enforcers) count as a conspiracy theory? Some purport that Brigham Young had a band of men that would secretly eliminate threats to the church and murder sinners and so on. Others even claim that the band still exists. If it does exist it isn't terribly effective in my opinion. As for whether Danites existed in Brigham's time, I think there is perhaps something to it, but it gets greatly exaggerated and over-hyped into some kind of more exciting lore than the truth ever was. Something akin to suggesting that we plot world conquest in the secrecy of the temple.

 

Here's the "official word" on the Danites...scroll down the page:

 

https://www.lds.org/topics/peace-and-violence-among-19th-century-latter-day-saints?lang=eng

[Guest MormonGator]

??

 

I'm sort of confused facts and logic? A conspiracy is simple a couple of people (or more) getting together to do something nefarious. Conspiracies happen all the time, it's just the level and scale that differ. People conspire together to kill other people, the scriptures are full of examples of conspiring, evil and wicked individuals who plan, scheme and execute those plans in order to bring about evil and wicked things.

 

  I don't debate with conspiracy theorists. Sorry. 

[Pa Pa]

Thought this would be interesting, especially, with all the opinions that float around here...

Since I'm not an expert on conspiracy theories, or the topics they cover, the sensationalism of what-really-happened seems to always reel in my curiosity. Even though I'm not an expert, there's certain conspiracy theories that while intriguing, I just don't buy - like the moon landing... Alright, so the most recent conspiracy theory that I've heard about was that 9/11 was orchestrated by the US government. Naturally, it was posted on my FB feed (which we all know is a great resource for accurate and unbiased information lol). I didn't read through the whole article but bits and pieces.

So what are some conspiracies that you agree with or don't agree with? (Like I said, I'm no expert on this, especially on government conspiracies! Very clueless on that category, specifically. But I'd be interest in other types of conspiracy theories, too...maybe Big Foot?...lol)

I have a friend ( we don't talk much anymore because of such things) who is unhinged when it comes to conspiracy theories. He is much like Mel Gibson in the movie "Conspiracy Theroy", without the actual element. From what I hear Mel Gibson is much the way he appears in the movie.

[Blackmarch]

On the flouride in water my neighbor does oral work specializing in dental surgery and he is convinced that it makes a difference.

I hate conspiracy theories. They kill braincells.

Edited July 14, 2015 by Blackmarch

[mirkwood]

I grew up with fluoridated water.  My dentist ALWAYS comments that he can tell.

[hagoth]

...I hate conspiracy theories. They kill braincells.

How so? Enron was a conspiracy. So was WorldCom. There are scores of similar recent examples. They happen all the time. They're part of flawed human nature.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

I rarely listen to the radio, but on my families recent vacation/road trip, we tuned into some station in Idaho.  It quickly went from interesting, to hilarious to ridiculous at which time we changed the station.

 

In short the message was that the government uses technology not only to track citizens but to experiment on them...from causing people to have schizophrenia type symptoms to...get this...one caller said that she had a camera implanted in her left eye...without her permission, of course.  The "guest expert" on the program agreed that this happens.

 

We laughed very hard and changed the station.  

[yjacket]

On the flouride in water my neighbor does oral work specializing in dental surgery and he is convinced that it makes a difference.

I hate conspiracy theories. They kill braincells.

 Believing that it makes a difference makes about as much sense as believing in conspiracy theories. He does oral work, yet is he a scientist, does he have studies to back it up and prove? All he has is anecdotal?  How does one even go about making an actual scientific study that fluoride in the water distributed over large population without controlling for umpteen variables is appropriate? Making a study that fluoride and toothpaste work well is vastly different than flouride in the water supply.

 

I grew up on a farm with well water and my teeth are better than most people my age. Any dentist worth their salt will say brushing and flossing work, one doesn't need anything else it's pretty simple.

Edited July 14, 2015 by yjacket

[Blackmarch]

How so? Enron was a conspiracy. So was WorldCom. There are scores of similar recent examples. They happen all the time. They're part of flawed human nature.

ya but those aren't the ones people go nuts over.

It's always gnashing at gnats while the the bull thats smashing your china shop is going unseen.