Traveler Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 If ISIS and Iran ever get together and jointly do anything - and if anyone still has anything to repent about - I suggest you do not put it off any longer. Irishcolleen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theSQUIDSTER Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 (edited) Being quick to repent is always advisable.. no matter what is happening in the world..That being said, ISIS and Iran joint venture.. unlikely due to the Shiite/Sunni differences... Although I wouldn't completely rule it out if briefly uniting meant they thought they could stomp out Israel... Edited July 16, 2015 by theSQUIDSTER Just_A_Guy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palerider Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 Being quick to repent is always advisable.. no matter what is happening in the world..That being said, ISIS and Iran joint venture.. unlikely due to the Shiite/Sunni differences... Although I wouldn't completely rule it out if briefly uniting meant they thought they could stomp out Israel...And United States ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 (edited) While I'm not thrilled about recent events either, let's take a deep breath. So far, things are fine. I think everyone throughout history has thought the end was near. We do ourselves no favors by doomsaying and banging the drums of Armageddon while scaring people. In the immortal words of the late, great Boyd Packer, "When I look towards the future, I am filled with optimism" Edited July 17, 2015 by MormonGator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 It is extremely unlikely that ISIS and Iran will team up. So far ISIS has declared jihad on Al Qaeda, Hamas and the Taliban and all of these are Sunni groups with basically the same goals. If ISIS and these groups are trying to kill each other, there is no way Iran and ISIS would ever get together. As I understand it, ISIS does not esteem Shiites very much above Israel anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeuroTypical Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 "While I'm not thrilled about recent events either, let's take a deep breath. So far, things are fine." That's an interesting take on things. Just out of curiosity, do you have a rule of thumb or guideline or something, to tell when we'd move from a state of Fine to Not Fine? For example, how many violent attacks by ISIS operatives in the US will there need to be, before things are not fine? (We've had one already, ya know.) "We do ourselves no favors by doomsaying and banging the drums of Armageddon while scaring people." Surely, there is good reason to remain calm and not let fear rule our lives. But surely, on the vast scale of reaction, with "things are fine" on one end, and "repent the end is near" on the other, there is an appropriate reaction somewhere between the two? "In the immortal words of the late, great Boyd Packer, "When I look towards the future, I am filled with optimism"" Oh me too. And should ISIS and Iran manage to find enough common ground to face the US somehow, the words of another late great church leader come to mind. Leah 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 And we haven't even talked about the mega earthquake and tsunami that is predicted to wipe out entire cities in the Pacific Northwest. Shephard at Fox News had some physicist who looked like the Doc in Back to the Future talk about it...http://insider.foxnews.com/2015/07/15/massive-mega-earthquake-will-destroy-pacific-northwest-scientists-predict Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 "While I'm not thrilled about recent events either, let's take a deep breath. So far, things are fine." That's an interesting take on things. Just out of curiosity, do you have a rule of thumb or guideline or something, to tell when we'd move from a state of Fine to Not Fine? For example, how many violent attacks by ISIS operatives in the US will there need to be, before things are not fine? (We've had one already, ya know.) "We do ourselves no favors by doomsaying and banging the drums of Armageddon while scaring people." Surely, there is good reason to remain calm and not let fear rule our lives. But surely, on the vast scale of reaction, with "things are fine" on one end, and "repent the end is near" on the other, there is an appropriate reaction somewhere between the two? "In the immortal words of the late, great Boyd Packer, "When I look towards the future, I am filled with optimism"" Oh me too. And should ISIS and Iran manage to find enough common ground to face the US somehow, the words of another late great church leader come to mind. Yes, thanks for asking. I have a strong sense of fatalism. If it happens , I hope I read my book of Mormon and bible in the morning. It's completely out of my control. While I am far from perfect, my soul is prepared for the end. All I can do is trust faith and hope. So, we can do two things. 1) complain, moan and whine about the end, living in mortal terror. Or we can realize and understand that yes, we still live in the greatest time ever in history ("Oh, what a wonderful time to be alive!"-Gordon Hinckley) and enjoy life while we can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 ... and enjoy life while we can. I'm sure you don't mean this (I hope), but I think the suggestion amounts to using the signs of the times for what they are meant to be (a warning) and to not engage in any sort of "eat, drink, and be merry" sort of philosophy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 (edited) I'm sure you don't mean this (I hope), but I think the suggestion amounts to using the signs of the times for what they are meant to be (a warning) and to not engage in any sort of "eat, drink, and be merry" sort of philosophy. Of course not. You can "Eat, drink and be merry" without committing sinful behavior. I love hanging out with my friends, headbanging and moshing to Megadeth, being happy (oh the horror! ) while not fooling around on your wife, drinking alcohol, and doing anything else that is against church teaching. So far I know of no church teaching that requires us to wallow in doom and gloom and be miserable all the time. In fact, I think having a bad attitude and wallowing in misery gives a TERRIBLE message to those who might otherwise be open to church teaching. I only speak for myself, but since converting my outlook on life has done a total 180. Sure, I'm cynical and nihilistic sometimes, but the church has given me great optimism for the future. Edited July 17, 2015 by MormonGator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 Hmm. I'm not picturing Christ headbanging to Megadeath on his down time. I don't thing being aware of the signs of the times and taking seriously the gospel and our covenant equates to wallowing in misery. Rather, just the opposite, as you point out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 (edited) Hmm. I'm not picturing Christ headbanging to Megadeath on his down time. I don't thing being aware of the signs of the times and taking seriously the gospel and our covenant equates to wallowing in misery. Rather, just the opposite, as you point out. I'm sure Christ has no problem with Megadeth, but maybe He prefers Pantera or Anthrax, you might be right. I love Megadeth, I've seen them live several times and I always tease LadyGator that if I won the lottery I'd be a roadie for them. Dave Mustaine, the lead singer of Megadeth, is a Christian. Edited July 17, 2015 by MormonGator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie123 Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 Even if Iran and ISIS never ever get together you might still get knocked down by a bus tomorrow. Repentance is always a good idea. theSQUIDSTER and Just_A_Guy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 (edited) Even if Iran and ISIS never ever get together you might still get knocked down by a bus tomorrow. Repentance is always a good idea. Don't get me wrong, I think repentance is a great thing, I need it, and I am without question a sinner. Edited July 17, 2015 by MormonGator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 I'm sure Christ has no problem with Megadeth, but maybe He prefers Pantera or Anthrax, you might be right. I love Megadeth, I've seen them live several times and I always tease LadyGator that if I won the lottery I'd be a roadie for them. <-- It's puny. On a serious note... I have found that my interest in heavy music (Metallica for me) is directly in conflict with my desire to have the Spirit with me. That's not to say I believe there is never a time and a place...but...for the most part, my strong preference (and I believe this should be all our strong preference's) is to have the Spirit with me. Dave Mustaine, the lead singer of Megadeth, is a Christian. Being a "Christian" now simply equates to his-works-must-be-righteous? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 (edited) <-- It's puny. On a serious note... I have found that my interest in heavy music (Metallica for me) is directly in conflict with my desire to have the Spirit with me. That's not to say I believe there is never a time and a place...but...for the most part, my strong preference (and I believe this should be all our strong preference's) is to have the Spirit with me. Being a "Christian" now simply equates to his-works-must-be-righteous? Great. On a serious note, I find it soothes me and brings me more into the spirit. Takes different types to run the world. In fact I often blast some good thrash metal (or punk, I love that style too) while I'm reading the Book of Mormon. Every Sunday I have it on while going to church. Puts me "in the zone" so to speak. Edited July 17, 2015 by MormonGator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 Great. On a serious note, I find it soothes me and brings me more into the spirit. Takes different types to run the world. In fact I often blast some good thrash metal (or punk, I love that style too) while I'm reading the Book of Mormon. Every Sunday I have it on while going to church. Puts me "in the zone" so to speak. It strikes me, with all due respect, that you do not understand the sacred, the Spirit, or the meaning of "holy". Of course, how could you if your primary experience with it involves headbanging. You may believe you can feel the Spirit this way. You are deceived. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 (edited) It strikes me, with all due respect, that you do not understand the sacred, the Spirit, or the meaning of "holy". Of course, how could you if your primary experience with it involves headbanging. You may believe you can feel the Spirit this way. You are deceived. Great. I disagree, and it's obvious we aren't going to agree. Like I mentioned before, takes all types to make the world run. Edited July 17, 2015 by MormonGator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 Great. I disagree, and it's obvious we aren't going to agree. Like I mentioned before, takes all types to make the world run. I have experienced spiritual communion while zoned in to my rock music faves.... matter of fact, Skid Row's Wasted Time saved my life... I'm not really much into headbanging screamo metal... but I've chilled to Iron Maiden, Quiet Riot, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 I have experienced spiritual communion while zoned in to my rock music faves.... matter of fact, Skid Row's Wasted Time saved my life... I'm not really much into headbanging screamo metal... but I've chilled to Iron Maiden, Quiet Riot, etc. That is some great music right there!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 (edited) Great. I disagree, and it's obvious we aren't going to agree. I don't care if you agree with me or not. I worry about others disagree with our prophets and apostles however. There are quite a myriad of teachings and quotes on the matter. I'll stick to just a couple: Thomas S. Monson - "Music can help you draw closer to your Heavenly Father. It can be used to educate, edify, inspire, and unite. However, music can, by its tempo, beat, intensity, and lyrics, dull your spiritual sensitivity. You cannot afford to fill your minds with unworthy music." Boyd K. Packer - "In our day music itself has been corrupted. Music can, by its tempo, by its beat, by its intensity, dull the spiritual sensitivity of men." "Now, I know that some young people resent it a little when we comment upon such things as the wild music that is served up nowadays. "Can you not see that you’re not going to get much inspiration while your mind is filled with that? "The right kind of music, on the other hand, can prepare you to receive inspiration." And I would recommend a read through/listening to this talk by Elder Scott: https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2012/04/how-to-obtain-revelation-and-inspiration-for-your-personal-life?lang=eng But what do a bunch of old fuddy-duddies know about it, right? Like I mentioned before, takes all types to make the world run. Which has no bearing whatsoever on whether the Spirit is driven away by aggressive rock and/or roll or not. I have experienced spiritual communion while zoned in to my rock music faves.... matter of fact, Skid Row's Wasted Time saved my life... I'm not really much into headbanging screamo metal... but I've chilled to Iron Maiden, Quiet Riot, etc. I wouldn't argue that the Spirit is incapable of communicating with us through various means (though it is not His standard Modus operandi, as indicated by our prophet's teachings, to do so in raucous settings), but I do wonder if many of us get confused by strong emotional experiences (something music is very good at providing) and the true whisperings of the Spirit. Edited July 17, 2015 by The Folk Prophet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 As one who has listened to a lot of metal and "hard" rock (and occasionally still does), I am starting to think that I'm not nearly as smart or as wise as I have apparently always thought myself to be. My enjoyment of that type of music is real, not feigned, and the technical mastery and musical content shown by such music is often very high. But that does not mean it's Godly. I have not yet reached the point of deciding that it's all evil, or equivalently, that the cost/benefit ratio is greater than one (meaning it's more bad than good). But I am no longer willing to dismiss such criticisms out of hand. I fear for my children, and I would be devastated if, one day in this life or the next, I learned that my musical predilections harmed my children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 (edited) As one who has listened to a lot of metal and "hard" rock (and occasionally still does), I am starting to think that I'm not nearly as smart or as wise as I have apparently always thought myself to be. My enjoyment of that type of music is real, not feigned, and the technical mastery and musical content shown by such music is often very high. But that does not mean it's Godly. I have not yet reached the point of deciding that it's all evil, or equivalently, that the cost/benefit ratio is greater than one (meaning it's more bad than good). But I am no longer willing to dismiss such criticisms out of hand. I fear for my children, and I would be devastated if, one day in this life or the next, I learned that my musical predilections harmed my children. I always loved it and always will. At a concert once I got into a conversation with a total stranger about being LDS. He was holding a beer and I mentioned that I don't drink. We ended up talking for about ten minutes. At the end he said "I never really knew much about Mormons. Maybe I'll check em out. Thanks man." It was pretty cool. Other cool metal story: I saw a guy at a hockey game and he noticed I was wearing a Ramones t-shirt. He commented on a tattoo I have and we also got to talking about Mormons. I got his email address and eventually sent him a copy of the Book of Mormon. No, he didn't convert but the good news is I developed a friendship and opened his eyes a bit about our church. MormonGator. Defeating anti-LDS prejudice one guy at a time. Edited July 17, 2015 by MormonGator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 (edited) I wouldn't argue that the Spirit is incapable of communicating with us through various means (though it is not His standard Modus operandi, as indicated by our prophet's teachings, to do so in raucous settings), but I do wonder if many of us get confused by strong emotional experiences (something music is very good at providing) and the true whisperings of the Spirit. I've quit boxing the Spirit on what I think is his modus operandi. There is no question that reverence is where the Spirit is strongest and peace and quiet also quiets your mind and soul which opens you up to hearing that soft still voice of spiritual inspiration. And that is where my biggest testimonies have been founded on. But, in the same way that God used Joseph Smith's experience with treasure hunting as a tool in the restoration, the Spirit can use - and has used - my mechanism of drowning my own ugly thoughts out with heavy music to bring me back from the brink of destruction. I don't always listen to music for the artistry of it. At times, I blast out what is inside me... so that, when I'm blasting Tom Sawyer at ear-splitting decibels, I'm not really admiring the technical complexity of the drum beat nor paying attention to the rebellious lyrics or even trying to capture Spiritual inspiration. Rather, I'm trying to shake up the steady beat of my own thoughts leading me to a dark and ugly place with the unsteady drum fills so I can think better and calm my thoughts down enough so I can be ready to reach out to Spiritual inspiration when I get ready to quiet things down. I'm not sure if this makes sense to anybody. That's just the way I reach out to God in the height of a psychotic event. Of course, there are times when I just listen to Rush because... I like listening to Rush. You know, kinda like eating chocolate ice cream not because I'm hungry or depressed or wanting to commune with God or anything... I just want to eat chocolate ice cream. I think pop music is more of the devil more than rock but I sometimes find myself shaking to Shake It Off at times. But, there was that time in my life when I had the Spirit reached me (or I reached the Spirit, whatever) through Skid Row. Not something for public consumption - very personal event, but it is my testimony. Edited July 17, 2015 by anatess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 I've quit boxing the Spirit on what I think is his modus operandi. There is no question that reverence is where the Spirit is strongest and peace and quiet also quiets your mind and soul which opens you up to hearing that soft still voice of spiritual inspiration. And that is where my biggest testimonies have been founded on. But, in the same way that God used Joseph Smith's experience with treasure hunting as a tool in the restoration, the Spirit can use - and has used - my mechanism of drowning my own ugly thoughts out with heavy music to bring me back from the brink of destruction. I don't always listen to music for the artistry of it. A lot of times, I blast out what is inside me... so that, when I'm blasting Tom Sawyer at ear-splitting decibels, I'm not really admiring the technical complexity of the drum beat nor paying attention to the rebellious lyrics or even trying to capture Spiritual inspiration. Rather, I'm trying to shake up the steady beat of my own thoughts with the unsteady drum fills so I can think better and calm my thoughts down enough so I can be ready to reach out to Spiritual inspiration when I get ready to quiet things down. I'm not sure if this makes sense to anybody. That's just the way I have managed to cope with my psychotic tendencies.It makes sense. I don't think you can box in the spirit either. I've baptized several people and felt it, same with giving blessings. I feel it when I read my Book of Mormon and yes, when I'm blasting my music on a road trip or hiking in the woods. That's one of the many beauties of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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